57 replies to this topic

[Phil]

Seems odd people talking about Windows vs OSX, when buying hardware.  You can buy a "Windows" laptop and installl MAC and vice versa.

[2bias]

Gemmill, on 09 October 2011 - 07:21 PM, said:

Enjoy your new computer, 2bias.  I dunno if you've bought Apple products before, but if you haven't, prepare for a sex wee when you unbox it.  Those Apple boys know how to pack a box.

btw, the photo isn't big enough for me to be certain, but it looks like you married a stunner.  Well played.

I'm currently using an iPad and have been since the laptop broke.  I love unwrapping apple products.

Thank you for the complement on the picture btw.

[2bias]

Tecato, on 09 October 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

Forget about his wife - that cake is something else by the looks of it. Tell us more about the cake.

Lol cant really comment as I'm not a fan of cake...(I didn't choose it)

[2bias]

Mac is awsome.  Very frustrating at first as I spent 40 mins trying to make a folder lol

[Park Life]

Mrs P's Mac is smooth, fast and shiny but it's really boring.

[DEADMAN]

i personally wouldnt bother with a apple there far to expensive for what your getten

Edited by DEADMAN, 31 October 2011 - 12:37 PM.

[2bias]

Never had a laptop which runs this smoothly.  Very fast and efficient

[Ruler of Planet Houston]

Aye..I'd never go back to a pc. I have to work with both but the less time I spend on the pc the better! Before I started on macs I was very anti-mac like most pc users...but it's just ignorance and assumptions that cause that attitude. After using both there really is no comparison. Still have to revert to PC for games but only cos there are hardly any available on mac.

[Ant]

there really isn't, it's just people have more access to breaking a pc and making it run like shite.
Macs like the iPhone and such are great when ya don't want to actually have to pay attention to anything you agree to

PC - if you aren't a clown = better performance for less money

macs are nice enough but daftly expensive for whats under the shell.

[Ruler of Planet Houston]

Ok. I'm a programmer for a living - I'm not the type that just fucks things up by messing with things I shouldn't and I still stand by what I said. Windows pc's just fuck up on their own. There are a lot of ill informed people that believe they can match a mac for a fraction of the price by sourcing parts of the same spec but they completely miss the point i.e. the 100% compatibility of all of the parts that go together coupled with an OS that is built on those parts which avoids sooooo many problems with pc's and they always forget the fact that they have to put the pc together themselves and usually the parts are the same spec on paper but not in reality - you can get cheap versions of all sorts but you pay the price with the performance.  Basically, most of the arguments are purely fanboy based as if admitting there is a better machine in the shops than the one you own is something to be ashamed of!

I've been on both ends of the mac vs pc debates (finally holding up my hands and realising I was wrong to support the pc) and they bore me to death - especially when 99% of the pipe-uppers have only ever tried one or the other long enough to make an informed decision. Hopefully there ain't gonna be another one ruining this forum.

That said...I run windaz on my mac on another drive and as a VM and it runs better than it ever did on any pc I had or have. Still crashes for no reason though.

[Ant]

< Is a programmer for a living as well and hasn't had a single windows problem in years, I've a watercooled beast of a rig that still cost considerably less than mac :shrug:, i've used macs (os-x is horrible imo) and i use/used linux for various other things as well.

"There are a lot of ill informed people that believe they can match a mac for a fraction of the price by sourcing parts of the same spec but they completely miss the point i.e."

the fact is you can get premium player parts and still end up costing considerably less than a mac, and yes you can bother you're hole to read whats likely to be more compatible but unless you're buying a "generic" mobo or ram etc you're going to have to do pretty badly to have that sort of trouble when you're spending top £.

Anyone spending http://store.apple.c...ily/imac/select those sort of prices for that sort of spec needs a slap if they're capable of building their own pc or know someone who can do it.
(i'm not saying go out and buy a compaq or a packard bell obviously).

The fact so many of the mac users have to spend a load of time getting bootcamp up and running is a cracker as well.

(i'd never have a mac for programming either, what sort of development do you do on a mac out of interest?)

[Ant]

that wasn't a dig about developing on a mac btw geniune question as my development rig in work is a dual xeon station with 12gbs of ram etc which cost nowhere near the 3-4grand apple would ask you for it, and i've no idea why you'd want to develop on something less if you can get that kinda power for under a grand or around that

[Ruler of Planet Houston]

Ant, on 31 October 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

The fact so many of the mac users have to spend a load of time getting bootcamp up and running is a cracker as well.

??? I installed windows in the time it took to press the power button and wait for windows to install. If I was to do it as a bootcamp partition, it would just take an extra couple of minutes for bootcamp to create the named partition. Again...there are a lot of complete numpties around that might be on for weeks trying to do this sort of stuff on all operating systems, but most people just do it...which is why you never hear about them cos they don't have to post all over tinterwebs asking for help.

I do PHP, MySQL, Jquery etc... Moving to C# and Cocao - web based stuff is much better on a mac since you can fully test in mac browsers AND pc ones on the same machine. Also, you need a mac to develop apple apps and use their sdk (or at least you did when I last checked around a year ago). I use an 8-core mac pro, 16gb ram (ram isn't as expensive if you buy it from crucial instead of with the mac). I also do design so the ram and processor power comes in rather handy

[Ant]

how much did "I use an 8-core mac pro, 16gb ram (ram isn't as expensive if you buy it from crucial instead of with the mac). I also do design so the ram and processor power comes in rather handy " that cost you?
(no where near the price of my dev machine with the same spec no doubt)

so you're going develop for windows based machines, running c# iis visual studio/tfs etc etc on a mac but through bootcamp? think i'd rather have a windows machine myself

"web based stuff is much better on a mac since you can fully test in mac browsers AND pc ones on the same machine"
yeah you can do that on a pc as well tbh, considering i've to do a load of pain in the balls AA/AAA compliment stuff i've to check that kinda guff regularly.

each to their own

(i'm not a windows advocate either for what its worth, or linux etc, you use what you need for what they suit, ....i'd never go for a mac for development personally, if anything i'd rather have linux and then windows for the visual studio stuff)

[Ruler of Planet Houston]

That's just it. It isn't the same spec as yours. Also, you can buy good and bad hardware with the same 'numbers'. At the time I got it (2 years ago) you would have been lucky to get 16gb ram for under £1500 (unless you buy the shittest of ram you can possibly find - like the "I can match your spec cheaper" bunch). I bought it with a lot of extras totalling over £7000 but for the tower I would say it was around £3500, 2x top spec graphics cards, extended support, some chosen software preinstalled 2x2tb drives, ram in 4 sticks to allow me to expand to 32gb later, magic mouse which was extra at the time etc... but as I said, all top spec hardware...Of course you probably could match the price buying the hardware...but it would be shitty hardware with a shit OS.

Haven't fully decided on c# yet. It just looks easy but I need to wait until work slows up a bit before I go at it.

you can't test mac stuff on a pc since you can't install os x on one (well you can if you build a hackintosh but that is the biggest fuck on imaginable) and you can test aa/aaa on anything anyway. I test in around 20-30 different browsers including all iphones and ipads using the sdk which isn't available for pc and never will be.

After working on pc for years then switching to mac, my productivity increased by about 40%. Coda is definitely the best IDE ever made and is a pleasure to use and speeds up productivity. That along with the lack of crashes (never once has it even froze for 2 seconds since I got it and I am on it 12-14 hours per day every day) or "Windows is installing updates 2% done...please wait half an hour before you can crack on with your job which you will have to start again as windows is going to reboot and delete files and fuck up your email clients and all sorts" bollocks!

But for games....Straight over to Windows (on my mac hardware of course   )

But this is starting to sound too much like a mac vs pc debate which I want nowt more to do with. I have lived with both (pc for 20 years and mac for 2) and still use both working on 3-4 machines all at once and still feel like all the pc's are a crock every day of my life!
<endRant />

Edited by Ruler of Planet Houston, 01 November 2011 - 09:51 AM.

[Ant]

we'll leave the os stuff like that as it's going nowhere and it'll be like banging my/everyones head off a wall, the os thing is never going be resolved, it's a personal preference thing and we'll never agree and i'm not an advocate for any either way, i simply never have problems on any of my systems windows or otherwise i've no idea what your background is and being a programmer (goes for me as well) means fuck all really other than you can code, but the hardware you're just simply wrong.

(i did the hackintosh thing on my netbook just to see, really wasn't that much hassle tbh....took about an hour or so to create the usb drive setup and install it :shrug:...but obviously i got a bit luckier with my netbook matching apples setup)

Quote

"That's just it. It isn't the same spec as yours. Also, you can buy good and bad hardware with the same 'numbers'. At the time I got it (2 years ago) you would have been lucky to get 16gb ram for under £1500 (unless you buy the shittest of ram you can possibly find - like the "I can match your spec cheaper" bunch). I bought it with a lot of extras totalling over £7000 but for the tower I would say it was around £3500, 2x top spec graphics cards, extended support, some chosen software preinstalled 2x2tb drives, ram in 4 sticks to allow me to expand to 32gb later, magic mouse which was extra at the time etc... but as I said, all top spec hardware...Of course you probably could match the price buying the hardware...but it would be shitty hardware with a shit OS."

is especially wrong though (apple have never and will never have "top spec" parts in any of there machines, the fact you think you got top range graphics cards sums up your knowledge of the components in it, even the best of the best in the current "top spec" of the macs or mac pros graphics card is a 5770 radeon, that has fuck all to do with power or compatibility and everything about apple getting a budget part in and making a fortune off people,

it's worth about £150 maximum for one of the special edition type versions, no harm, a £150 graphics card is barely midrange it's not even remotely close to the power you're expecting for mac sort of money....the card in one of my rigs cost £500 and there's no sense spouting "compatibility!" as before because anyone who has ever built a pc or buys components knows how to match parts up.
(of course you could be getting the firepro style end of things but the same applies to that)

what i was saying was you can buy "exactly" manufacturer and model of the apple stuff (with the exception of possibly the motherboard) for considerably less, and even then i wouldn't buy those parts, i'd buy better faster ones (not the "numbers" but in manufacturer too)  again for considerably less.

how you think apples hardware is somehow more special than more expensive premium parts from well branded manufactors i honestly cannot fathom.

For example  "apples ram" it's rebadged samsung, hynix, and micron chips you realise?  ...who guess what supply the likes of crucial/corsair etc as well. the only difference is premium ram from the likes of those brands is lifetime guaranteed and doesn't have apples over priced overheads on it, but same chips same factory etcetc.

arguing apples "hardware" vs other hardware is just daft it's simply not true that it's of higher spec/quality, i'm yet to meet anyone who loves apple who doesn't know they can get better/faster for the money but don't mind they're paying for the shiny casing and lack of hassle.

Do you have much hardware background out of interest? i'd have a guess from what you've said you were a graphic designer whose turned web-developer.

(c# is easy enough to pickup btw, it's what i tend to use permanently these days, intellisense etc is nice but i still use vim or something unless i have to.)

[Ruler of Planet Houston]

Hardware background? I've never worked for a motherboard manufacturer or anything if that's what you mean. Just the same as most people really...built my own computers (and others!) since the pentium 100 days, did little repair jobs, data recovery etc... lived as a geek, read a lot, experiment and all that balls. Nowt credible. And like most people that run web design companies I have all aspects of digital design experience too. Dabbled with programmingsince I was a nipper with a spectrum and eventually realised if I put the graphics and programming together, I could get paid for it. 3D design went out the window when I realised I couldn't afford the hardware to keep up with the pros (I think shrek or monsters inc release made me realise my pc just wasn't up to the job)

Really fancy doing standalone desktop programs which is why I was thinking about C# and the fact it is almost identical to php (looking at it) but I am open to suggestions for owt better. Whatever is best for writing business applications I suppose.

I assumed you were web since you mentioned the aa/aaa compliance but then why would you be working in c#? Unless you work for google or something.

[Ant]

work for the government doing online applications and webservices etcetc for the majority of my time so it's not so much "design" but more applications i guess, I do desktop apps/windows services if needs be  mind
(not had to do any since our auditing app though), but the web stuff is all big db driven applications all tied in with government gateway and such

The best way i can describe what i work on to most people so they've an idea of the kind of setup for our apps in function/size is, it's akin to eBanking systems they'd use, and when  the end user thinks it looks simple they can move some money around see a statement and apply for things, in reality it's farfar from it and the same would go for ours for when they're doing whatever task it is, for most of the major apps would have 50k+ users with huge db's to match.

Aye it would be a bit (c#), supposedly based  on java and c++, where it gets the name from. It's nice to pick up though and with visual studio it makes any coding (c# vb.net etc)  life considerably easier, between intelisense and the debugging in it, being able to break in/out of things and change attributes on the fly it's great to work with especially when you do have trouble.

Used to like arsing about with design back when i was a kid, but tbh I didn't have the patience for it, and even now doing any sort of template for work i loathe, i'm happy doing all the behind the scenes coding which can be nice and messy long as it works and i know what its doing, do i want to spend time making the same thing line up correctly in 5 different versions of 3 different broswers....do i fuck.