zerosum
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Posts posted by zerosum
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1 minute ago, Renton said:
So the SM is a regulatory union allowing frictionless trade across the EU28 and allows for the free movement of goods, services, capital and people across the EEA. Effectively it makes the rest of Europe our domestic market, expanding our customer base ten fold.
It's a work of genius imo. What don't you like about it? Sorry, as ttlhe only leaver here nowadays I'm just curious.
The CU is much less important, although problematic for Ireland.
I said kind of .. and forgive me but I can’t be arsed going through all that again with my own reasons for ticking the leave box. lol. Was like poking a stick in a wasp nest last time around.
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1 minute ago, ewerk said:
ME! ME! ME!
Then again I did do a module on the politics of the EU at uni.
Thats another thing. You are all far more intelligent (or should I say knowledgeable? lol) than the majority of voters. Including me! I am one of the 90% who just go with face value a lot of times. I never did EU at Uni haha.. didn’t even go to Uni.
That majority needs won over by a charismatic leader who the people can relate to or believe
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SM kind of yeah.. CU I fucking thought I did lol.. apparently not.
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1 minute ago, ewerk said:
You're certainly not alone in that thinking and in fact you're exactly the sort of voter that a leader needs to win over in order to get into power. I've said it before but if Labour kept every one of Corbyn's policies but put in place a more charismatic and politically adept leader then they'd walk the election.
And get rid of a few of those around him too.
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19 minutes ago, NJS said:
The way the two sides have entrenched themselves has led to the leave=right wing racist/remain = traitor rhetoric.
I know I come across as the most pro-Corbyn poster on here which is fair despite my doubts about his leadership at times but I'd say he was the only leader to actually try and bring the two sides together. That may be because he's actually a leaver in a mainly remain party but it's also true. Nearly everybody on here would like to see revocation by whatever means but I think there's too much contempt for leavers at times. Some of them deserve it but not all.
This was in reply to zerosum BTW.
Can see what you’re saying man. As I said I tend to gravitate towards relatable leaders and policy. I don’t gravitate toward Corbyn, for kind of the reasons ewerk states above BUT that doesn’t mean I am gravitating toward Boris lol. I just won’t vote (again). They are all shite.
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Agree with all that pretty much. And this stand off last few years has enabled the extreme on both sides to gain followings. Partly because 90% of people get their information from the internet or TV news. Guilty here of that too I suppose.
Whats increasingly annoying for me, which became instantly apparent after the referendum is when you say you voted leave you are immediately branded right wing or even racist. Id consider myself centre.. I agree with what some left say, and some right, I’ve been a floating voter in the past and gravitate toward relatable leaders as well as policy.
But these days I tend to keep quiet about voting leave, or fear a “wtf” type reaction and having to explain myself over and over. It’s tiresome.
Like on this thread haha.. seriously though, the reaction of some of my wife’s friends to my leave vote was incredible. Still is. I have to keep my mouth properly shut when they come round or I will get the doghouse
Drives me mad, I’m just a normal bloke man not a monster! And can see how this is pushing more and more people to sides with extremes, being fuelled by media.
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47 minutes ago, Rayvin said:
Yeah, not going to disagree on this. The EU wasn't exactly super helpful in the run up to this, including Merkel's 1 million Syrian refugees 3 months before the vote, but on the other side, we did have the best deal in Europe out of any other country in there already...
Thats exactly it. They should have took the concerns of a large portion of our country onboard and gave us a bit more, we wouldn’t have this situation. I would have probably voted remain and I bet many others would have too, and we would all be here happy as Larry moaning about Mike Ashley instead.
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Just now, Meenzer said:
But those options mean leaving the EU
Ok I mean just more willing to listen and give up more than what they did.
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22 minutes ago, Rayvin said:
So at any point the UK could go to them and ask for Canada or Norway and we'd get it. No Deal isn't needed for that. What exactly do leavers think he is going to achieve?
They didn’t exactly give Cameron that when he went to negotiate a better deal in the first place. If they had been so willing to give up like that to us, maybe the referendum would never have happened? That’s partly the problem, they should listen to individual countries concerns within the EU.
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Just now, Rayvin said:
Why? I read his whole manifesto and it looked solid to me. I'm fairly well educated on economics to my mind at least, and also can see that Tory austerity has literally ripped the country apart (as I still believe it to be the primary cause of Brexit).
Corbyn would have some job on his hands not to improve on that.
Fair enough.
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On that note. Time for sleep. Night
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1 minute ago, Rayvin said:
Yeah but probably because if they did it now there's a very real chance it would make people's lives a lot worse.
Brexit aside, I honestly don’t think Corbyn will make anyone’s lives any better.
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2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:
Yes but a general election tonight ran the risk of Boris just throwing us out without a deal.. I mean would you trust Boris?
Yeah as I said.. was tactical, I get it, but the wording in that policy.. they believe so strongly about getting into power to make changes for the good of the people.. then passed at the first opportunity.
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Just now, Rayvin said:
Corbyn also hasn't covered himself in glory as we know. It is quite dismal.
Yeah. Can’t vote for him, I probably could vote Labour if someone else was running it who I could relate to. But Corbyn the same as all others .. a snake who changes his mind and policies like the wind.. to stay as leader. I mean for instance.. on the website below haha.. and refused to go into one tonight. Yeah tactical but still ..
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We may as well vote for Lord Buckethead. Probably wouldn’t be any worse off.
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1 minute ago, Renton said:
We were promised green pasteurs after Brexit. This was never possible in reality, it was always going to be damage limitation. May is a proven xenophobe, her red lines made that damage much worse than it had to be. Johnson is a populist, he doesn't give a shit about the EU either way. That is a catastrophe for us.
Yup! and neither of them were elected.
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Just now, Renton said:
I know, but that's the problem. We can't change the people running the show. Democracy is broken in this country and the US. People are so easily led by the nose from targetted social media and more traditional xenophobic MSM for nefarious reasons. Hope I'm wrong but I think we may be on the verge of societal breakdown soon. Same with climate change.
I hope you’re wrong too.. But you’re probably not! There’s nobody fit to run the country properly in any party, and can’t see. how any of it could change anytime soon. And all this fucking about over leave or not is letting each side at extremes fuel fires.
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I don’t disagree with you on where the party is now. Theresa was a nightmare in the end, but at first it seemed like she was trying to do her best after Cameron put his trotters up, it became apparent after a month that she was useless. Right now conservatives are beyond anything I’d want to vote for, but Labour is off the scale too.
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2 minutes ago, Renton said:
What about the people now, a large minority of whom are chomping at the bit for no deal and all that entails. Can't articulate any benefits of Brexit, let alone no deal. Repeating inane crappy slogans that mean shit all. In polls, saying they are happy for their friends and close relatives to lose their livelihoods as long as they get their Brexit. Don't care if they split the union or cause a war in Ireland. Happy to vote for demonstrable self serving cunts like Farage or Johnson?
There are a few hundred scumbag MPs. There are millions of these gammon cunts. Yes, I blame the people.
We can’t change people from being gammon cunts.. but we can change the people who are bloody running the show. None of them are fit to do the job.
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I’m no hard brexit type by any means.. just wish they’d actually thought about the bloody possibility that this mess could have been the outcome - from triggering article 50. Yeah would go against will of the people blah blah.. but if they believed so strongly back then as they do now, then it could have saved us all this crap .. and maybe there would be a different Government already. I dunno - kind of past caring too much, just sick to death of it all now. They need to get on with running the country, either being in or out of EU. End rant.
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Sick to death with all of them
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I’m angry with all of them, but especially the ones who voted to trigger article 50 and now state no deal is not what people voted for. They were the ones who triggered it, with that risk attached. Not the people, they shouldn’t have triggered it in the first place. It’s the politicians who are currently destroying the country. None of them can make a decision and stick with it., whichever way they want it to go. Labour has changed from a leave backing party to a remain.
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The thing that annoys me most, isn’t the fact this is dragging on forever (thats fucking annoying though).. but it’s the politicians who repeatedly state nobody voted for no deal. It’s as bad as leave means leave.
Regardless of the referendum result and what people actually voted for, it was those very same fuckers who triggered article 50, with the very real risk of no deal being the outcome.
It’s the biggest welch on a bet ever.
they are all arseholes - every single politician- on every side!
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Europe --- In or Out
in General Chat
Posted
This woman baffles me, and surely (taking off any remain cap you are wearing for one moment) it sounds ridiculous to everyone? Surely any future vote has to be between leave full stop, and remain full stop. Not a deal or remain, that’s pretty much what the last 3 years have already been, it’s like groundhog day, Theresa negotiations mark 2.