snakehips 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've just been for a look on N-O and see a thread by toon ultras. 'They're a canny bunch' I thought, I quite like them up in Level 7 doing their thing. Then it hits me. Like a fuckin thunderbolt. They are leaving Level 7 tonight and are moving to 'The Corner'. Fucking great I quite like the sparsely populated Corner when I can have some space and sing and shout at my leisure, but I just cannot be arsed being surrounded by over-enthusiastic youths. Someone has obviously pointed out to them that 'The Corner' is the real place to be It's like being in your local pub with your mates and a coach load of stag lads turning up to spoil the atmosphere I do like their singing and shouting, but not where I am Maybe I am getting old, after all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 NIMBYtbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Author Share Posted February 22, 2007 NIMBYtbh You're probably right. I can't tell you how depressed I am right now. tbh, I am no shrinking violet at the game. I am actually one of the few who really do sing and shout - sometimes on my own as I couldn't give a fuck if anyone doesn't like it. It's just that I don't want to be surrounded by this lot. God, I don't know what to think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 NIMBYtbh You're probably right. I can't tell you how depressed I am right now. tbh, I am no shrinking violet at the game. I am actually one of the few who really do sing and shout - sometimes on my own as I couldn't give a fuck if anyone doesn't like it. It's just that I don't want to be surrounded by this lot. God, I don't know what to think about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCUM 1 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Maybe I'm missing something but (apart from the stupid name) what's wrong with them? Everybody's moaning about lack of atmosphere at all grounds today so what's the problem with a load of youths trying to remedy it? It's always been the same, most people when they reach a certain age stop singing and chanting and you need to the next generation to take their place and keep the atmosphere going. It was always that way but we seem to have lost that in recent years so fair play to the lads for trying to get it going again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 Maybe I'm missing something but (apart from the stupid name) what's wrong with them? Everybody's moaning about lack of atmosphere at all grounds today so what's the problem with a load of youths trying to remedy it? It's always been the same, most people when they reach a certain age stop singing and chanting and you need to the next generation to take their place and keep the atmosphere going. It was always that way but we seem to have lost that in recent years so fair play to the lads for trying to get it going again. They're a bunch of charva's that sing 'Shearer is a legend' every couple of minutes. I'm usually in the 'any atmosphere is good atmosphere' camp but I can't abide people singing that or 'Easy!'. It's fucking moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg 6 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 I've just been for a look on N-O and see a thread by toon ultras. 'They're a canny bunch' I thought, I quite like them up in Level 7 doing their thing. Then it hits me. Like a fuckin thunderbolt. They are leaving Level 7 tonight and are moving to 'The Corner'. Fucking great I quite like the sparsely populated Corner when I can have some space and sing and shout at my leisure, but I just cannot be arsed being surrounded by over-enthusiastic youths. Someone has obviously pointed out to them that 'The Corner' is the real place to be It's like being in your local pub with your mates and a coach load of stag lads turning up to spoil the atmosphere I do like their singing and shouting, but not where I am Maybe I am getting old, after all Not like St James' will be full tonight if they do piss you off you can just go and sit pretty much anywhere else in the ground where there are empty seats if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themags 0 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 (edited) they do get on your tits 'Stand up and support the team' ; 'do you want an atmosphere' Edited February 22, 2007 by themags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WubbleUC 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was ganna type a massive post on this like, but I really can't be fucking arsed. What I will say is, a lot of the people who moved to the corner today weren't your general Level 7 charva crowd. They are genuinely interested in getting the atmosphere back on it's feet, and they moved down there to get shot of the fucking charva arseholes who have decided to join them in Level 7. Quite a few of them are regular travellers aswell, or at least, the ones that I know are. Honestly don't know why they fucking bother, since theres always someone there to fucking moan about it. Sorry Snakehips, it isnt your fault they've coined a bad name, but I honestly dont know what hope they've got. It seems wherever they move, and whatever they do, people are way way too quick to tell them how much of a shit idea it is. Funny, since every other person you talk to tells you how wank the atmosphere is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 False alarm. When I got into the ground, they were further round towards the East Stand than near where I was. I knew they would be at the back (as I like to be) so suspected they would be surrounding me. As Greg said, I knew I could always move, but moving is for others - not me (I specifically asked to be where I was) I really find this 'situation' a difficult one. WubbleU, I fully support what they are trying to do (and I don't mind the name at all) it's just the thought of being surrounded by kids high on skittles and Tango doesn't appeal, that's all. And the t/u's who were in 'The Corner' last night didn't seem too bad, I have to admit, though they were like a magnet to the 11, 12 and 13 year-olds once the game started. There seemed to be a lot of t/u's left on Level 7 which, I guess, WubbleU, must have been more of your charve element. 'Stand up and support the team' I was stood up throughout the game. The t/u's must remember that some people (far more than I) have been 'standing up supporting the team' far more and far longer than they have and don't need lectured on how it's done. As I said, I fully support them in their enthusiasm but I just don't feel like being in amongst them. I apologise for that, I really do, but it's just how I feel. And just because some of them go to away games doesn't mean they are better than other supporters imo. If I were forced into deciding whether they had a place or not, I would probably say that they should continue - despite moaning people like me (I am not really moaning about them per se, just expressing reluctance at having my space invaded). Once again, I fully support them - I just don't want to be part of it, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19788 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 i saw the banner last night. couldn't hear much atmosphere coming through on the telly, although that's to be expected given the opposition and attendance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think the general feeling (that I also agree with) is that what they are doing is good and I'd applaud them for it, its just the way they go about it. The songs sang these days are generally shite and meaningless. Singing "You're shit and you know you are" to someone like ZW is pretty pointless. Chanting "Easy! Easy!" just makes me want to curl up and pretend its all a bad dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@yourservice 67 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think the general feeling (that I also agree with) is that what they are doing is good and I'd applaud them for it, its just the way they go about it. The songs sang these days are generally shite and meaningless. Singing "You're shit and you know you are" to someone like ZW is pretty pointless. Chanting "Easy! Easy!" just makes me want to curl up and pretend its all a bad dream. Maybe they should place hymn books on their pew's then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34348 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I think the general feeling (that I also agree with) is that what they are doing is good and I'd applaud them for it, its just the way they go about it. The songs sang these days are generally shite and meaningless. Singing "You're shit and you know you are" to someone like ZW is pretty pointless. Chanting "Easy! Easy!" just makes me want to curl up and pretend its all a bad dream. Maybe they should place hymn books on their pew's then Hark the heeeeerald ultras siiiiing, Glory toooo my sovereign ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 They'd probably do much better if they dropped the Toon Ultras name as it has far too many negative connotations now, choose a place and stay there. Let people know through word of mouth that theres a few dozen people in x part of the stadium that are willing to sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34348 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The whole "getting away from the charvas" thing. Two things - firstly, if you want to create an atmosphere, then to an extent you can't be too choosy about who comes and sits next to you. If you find that the other people who want to be in a singing area of the ground are charvers then you just have to go with it - there's no sense designating an area of the ground as the singing area, then moving when you attract a decent number of people that want to sing. Also, they should have considered this when everyone was telling them that the name had negative connotations etc. You're going to attract dickheads if you call yourself the ultras. I don't know any of the lads who set this thing up, but you can tell they set it up for all the right reasons and good luck to them with it, but if you pick a name like that then you run the risk of attracting mongs who want to be part of a gang of ultras. When that happens, you can't run away to another part of the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The whole "getting away from the charvas" thing. Two things - firstly, if you want to create an atmosphere, then to an extent you can't be too choosy about who comes and sits next to you. If you find that the other people who want to be in a singing area of the ground are charvers then you just have to go with it - there's no sense designating an area of the ground as the singing area, then moving when you attract a decent number of people that want to sing. Also, they should have considered this when everyone was telling them that the name had negative connotations etc. You're going to attract dickheads if you call yourself the ultras. I don't know any of the lads who set this thing up, but you can tell they set it up for all the right reasons and good luck to them with it, but if you pick a name like that then you run the risk of attracting mongs who want to be part of a gang of ultras. When that happens, you can't run away to another part of the ground. You should put that in Kane2005's thread on NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCUM 1 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was ganna type a massive post on this like, but I really can't be fucking arsed. What I will say is, a lot of the people who moved to the corner today weren't your general Level 7 charva crowd. They are genuinely interested in getting the atmosphere back on it's feet, and they moved down there to get shot of the fucking charva arseholes who have decided to join them in Level 7. Quite a few of them are regular travellers aswell, or at least, the ones that I know are. Honestly don't know why they fucking bother, since theres always someone there to fucking moan about it. Sorry Snakehips, it isnt your fault they've coined a bad name, but I honestly dont know what hope they've got. It seems wherever they move, and whatever they do, people are way way too quick to tell them how much of a shit idea it is. Funny, since every other person you talk to tells you how wank the atmosphere is.. WubbleUC, Unfortunately that's the way it is today. I'm certainly not directing this at those who've expressed their concerns on this thread, nor am I directing it at NUFC in any way. It's the same throughout the game, particularly at Premier League level, a vast majority want to go and be entertained and demand that everybody else creates the atmosphere they want for them. Fortunately, I'm now following a team where every single one of the 2,000-3,000 crowd takes the responsibilty of creating the atmosphere personally, whether they are young charvas or 70 year old grandmothers and I've got to tell you it's brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34348 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 The whole "getting away from the charvas" thing. Two things - firstly, if you want to create an atmosphere, then to an extent you can't be too choosy about who comes and sits next to you. If you find that the other people who want to be in a singing area of the ground are charvers then you just have to go with it - there's no sense designating an area of the ground as the singing area, then moving when you attract a decent number of people that want to sing. Also, they should have considered this when everyone was telling them that the name had negative connotations etc. You're going to attract dickheads if you call yourself the ultras. I don't know any of the lads who set this thing up, but you can tell they set it up for all the right reasons and good luck to them with it, but if you pick a name like that then you run the risk of attracting mongs who want to be part of a gang of ultras. When that happens, you can't run away to another part of the ground. You should put that in Kane2005's thread on NO. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was ganna type a massive post on this like, but I really can't be fucking arsed. What I will say is, a lot of the people who moved to the corner today weren't your general Level 7 charva crowd. They are genuinely interested in getting the atmosphere back on it's feet, and they moved down there to get shot of the fucking charva arseholes who have decided to join them in Level 7. Quite a few of them are regular travellers aswell, or at least, the ones that I know are. Honestly don't know why they fucking bother, since theres always someone there to fucking moan about it. Sorry Snakehips, it isnt your fault they've coined a bad name, but I honestly dont know what hope they've got. It seems wherever they move, and whatever they do, people are way way too quick to tell them how much of a shit idea it is. Funny, since every other person you talk to tells you how wank the atmosphere is.. WubbleUC, Unfortunately that's the way it is today. I'm certainly not directing this at those who've expressed their concerns on this thread, nor am I directing it at NUFC in any way. It's the same throughout the game, particularly at Premier League level, a vast majority want to go and be entertained and demand that everybody else creates the atmosphere they want for them. Fortunately, I'm now following a team where every single one of the 2,000-3,000 crowd takes the responsibilty of creating the atmosphere personally, whether they are young charvas or 70 year old grandmothers and I've got to tell you it's brilliant. I liked the idea of FCUM when it started but ironically it's got so many parallels with Man U that it's purpose is almost self-defeating. Although it's almost certainly going to rise through the divisions (and possibly attain league status), it's going to do this on the same basis that Man U does-ie with it's mass market appeal. It attracts players from all over the country to trials, thereby giving it an absurdly massive advantage over other teams in it's division, it has a fanbase that is out of all proportion for it's league, it places costly adverts in the media for it's games and it even has it's own television show ffs! It's so 'unlike' it's fellow clubs that it's bizarre. It's also a very similar experience to being a Man U fan in the sense that the fans can just turn up and expect to win. No disrespect to Flowers, as I know he'll tell me that the aim is to make sure that the club remains the property of the fans and that is the essential difference (I get that), but I just think that it loses some of the 'magic' as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavels Travels 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I see they've got their own little thread on the SMB (am i the only one who has a giggle at their forum name?) Anyway its managed to get my name and email address on it so i'm not best pleased. Just waiting for the mackem onslaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FCUM 1 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was ganna type a massive post on this like, but I really can't be fucking arsed. What I will say is, a lot of the people who moved to the corner today weren't your general Level 7 charva crowd. They are genuinely interested in getting the atmosphere back on it's feet, and they moved down there to get shot of the fucking charva arseholes who have decided to join them in Level 7. Quite a few of them are regular travellers aswell, or at least, the ones that I know are. Honestly don't know why they fucking bother, since theres always someone there to fucking moan about it. Sorry Snakehips, it isnt your fault they've coined a bad name, but I honestly dont know what hope they've got. It seems wherever they move, and whatever they do, people are way way too quick to tell them how much of a shit idea it is. Funny, since every other person you talk to tells you how wank the atmosphere is.. WubbleUC, Unfortunately that's the way it is today. I'm certainly not directing this at those who've expressed their concerns on this thread, nor am I directing it at NUFC in any way. It's the same throughout the game, particularly at Premier League level, a vast majority want to go and be entertained and demand that everybody else creates the atmosphere they want for them. Fortunately, I'm now following a team where every single one of the 2,000-3,000 crowd takes the responsibilty of creating the atmosphere personally, whether they are young charvas or 70 year old grandmothers and I've got to tell you it's brilliant. I liked the idea of FCUM when it started but ironically it's got so many parallels with Man U that it's purpose is almost self-defeating. Although it's almost certainly going to rise through the divisions (and possibly attain league status), it's going to do this on the same basis that Man U does-ie with it's mass market appeal. It attracts players from all over the country to trials, thereby giving it an absurdly massive advantage over other teams in it's division, it has a fanbase that is out of all proportion for it's league, it places costly adverts in the media for it's games and it even has it's own television show ffs! It's so 'unlike' it's fellow clubs that it's bizarre. It's also a very similar experience to being a Man U fan in the sense that the fans can just turn up and expect to win. No disrespect to Flowers, as I know he'll tell me that the aim is to make sure that the club remains the property of the fans and that is the essential difference (I get that), but I just think that it loses some of the 'magic' as a result. Manc Mag, Unsurprisingly, I agree with most of what you say but there is an air of inevitability about that as the club has been formed by breakaway supporters of Man Utd. I think that will gradually change over the years as we attract other support that doesn't have the same emotional attachment to Man Utd that most of us do. We are already seeing a significant influx of kids from the Bury area who fall into this category. Likewise much of the marketing activity we are undertaking is aimed to attract local youngsters who don't necessarily have an emotional attachment to Man Utd, particularly through the junior teams and 'football in the community' aspects. We do currently have a fanbase that is predominantly disenfranchised Man Utd supporters and many of these are travelling from outside the area just like Man Utd's supporters do, but as I say, given the logic behind the formation of the club it's inevitable. I'm regularly asked why the hell I want to drive for 2 1/2 - 3 hrs to watch non league football when I could roll out of my front door and watch Spartans, Whitley, Blue Star etc. For me, it's about keeping in touch with mates that I've been watching football with for over 40 years, having a few beers and a laugh with them as I've always done. I suspect it's the same for many more. We make no apologies for the massive advantage we hold over other clubs financially in the pyramid system, we currently have cash reserves of over 180 grand which I agree is chalk & cheese to other clubs but believe me we'll need a lot more than that if we are to fulfill our ambitions of our own ground in the future. It's also worth bearing in mind the massive cash injection we are giving to other lowly non-league clubs on our rise through the pyramid system by travelling in our thousands, we are giving many a clubs a financial lifeline that will set them up for years. The important thing for us, as a supporters owned club with mutual status, is to try and do things correctly. That's not always easy and sure we'll make some wrong decisions along the way. It's important that we don't use our financial status to appear 'arrogant' as many would like to perceive us as a breakaway formed by Man Utd supporters. To give just one example of this: there were many people (outside of the club) who felt we should be given some kind of fast-track through the pyramid system which we rejected outright. Several clubs with higher league status who were in financial difficulties contacted us with a view to taking over their clubs (I won't mention them all but it's an open secret that Leigh RMI were one) but how the hell could we justify that as a club borne out of Glazer's takeover! By and large, I think we've acheived what we set out to do without becoming arrogant about it. Of course we want to win our league and get promoted, that's the overall objective after all and it's inevitable that we'll use some of our financial clout over other teams to acheive that, it's in the nature of the beast, but Karl Margison (manager) has been aware of the need to do that without attracting players from too high up the pyramid system and has done it succesfully. Our team this season is totally different to last as we didn't go overboard in our first season and needed to attract better players to do well in this league. If, as we should, we go up this season then it's inevitable some current players will be left behind in the need to improve quality. It's not all about money though with these players, imagine yourself in that position, you are playing at the bottom of the pyramid system in front of gates of 35 every week and you are offered the opportunity to play in front of 2000-5000 passionate supporters every week and play all your home games at football league status ground! To be honest, players will be atrracted to us for many reasons other than money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I was ganna type a massive post on this like, but I really can't be fucking arsed. What I will say is, a lot of the people who moved to the corner today weren't your general Level 7 charva crowd. They are genuinely interested in getting the atmosphere back on it's feet, and they moved down there to get shot of the fucking charva arseholes who have decided to join them in Level 7. Quite a few of them are regular travellers aswell, or at least, the ones that I know are. Honestly don't know why they fucking bother, since theres always someone there to fucking moan about it. Sorry Snakehips, it isnt your fault they've coined a bad name, but I honestly dont know what hope they've got. It seems wherever they move, and whatever they do, people are way way too quick to tell them how much of a shit idea it is. Funny, since every other person you talk to tells you how wank the atmosphere is.. WubbleUC, Unfortunately that's the way it is today. I'm certainly not directing this at those who've expressed their concerns on this thread, nor am I directing it at NUFC in any way. It's the same throughout the game, particularly at Premier League level, a vast majority want to go and be entertained and demand that everybody else creates the atmosphere they want for them. Fortunately, I'm now following a team where every single one of the 2,000-3,000 crowd takes the responsibilty of creating the atmosphere personally, whether they are young charvas or 70 year old grandmothers and I've got to tell you it's brilliant. I liked the idea of FCUM when it started but ironically it's got so many parallels with Man U that it's purpose is almost self-defeating. Although it's almost certainly going to rise through the divisions (and possibly attain league status), it's going to do this on the same basis that Man U does-ie with it's mass market appeal. It attracts players from all over the country to trials, thereby giving it an absurdly massive advantage over other teams in it's division, it has a fanbase that is out of all proportion for it's league, it places costly adverts in the media for it's games and it even has it's own television show ffs! It's so 'unlike' it's fellow clubs that it's bizarre. It's also a very similar experience to being a Man U fan in the sense that the fans can just turn up and expect to win. No disrespect to Flowers, as I know he'll tell me that the aim is to make sure that the club remains the property of the fans and that is the essential difference (I get that), but I just think that it loses some of the 'magic' as a result. Manc Mag, Unsurprisingly, I agree with most of what you say but there is an air of inevitability about that as the club has been formed by breakaway supporters of Man Utd. I think that will gradually change over the years as we attract other support that doesn't have the same emotional attachment to Man Utd that most of us do. We are already seeing a significant influx of kids from the Bury area who fall into this category. Likewise much of the marketing activity we are undertaking is aimed to attract local youngsters who don't necessarily have an emotional attachment to Man Utd, particularly through the junior teams and 'football in the community' aspects. We do currently have a fanbase that is predominantly disenfranchised Man Utd supporters and many of these are travelling from outside the area just like Man Utd's supporters do, but as I say, given the logic behind the formation of the club it's inevitable. I'm regularly asked why the hell I want to drive for 2 1/2 - 3 hrs to watch non league football when I could roll out of my front door and watch Spartans, Whitley, Blue Star etc. For me, it's about keeping in touch with mates that I've been watching football with for over 40 years, having a few beers and a laugh with them as I've always done. I suspect it's the same for many more. We make no apologies for the massive advantage we hold over other clubs financially in the pyramid system, we currently have cash reserves of over 180 grand which I agree is chalk & cheese to other clubs but believe me we'll need a lot more than that if we are to fulfill our ambitions of our own ground in the future. It's also worth bearing in mind the massive cash injection we are giving to other lowly non-league clubs on our rise through the pyramid system by travelling in our thousands, we are giving many a clubs a financial lifeline that will set them up for years. The important thing for us, as a supporters owned club with mutual status, is to try and do things correctly. That's not always easy and sure we'll make some wrong decisions along the way. It's important that we don't use our financial status to appear 'arrogant' as many would like to perceive us as a breakaway formed by Man Utd supporters. To give just one example of this: there were many people (outside of the club) who felt we should be given some kind of fast-track through the pyramid system. Several clubs with higher league status who were in financial difficulties contacted us with a view to taking over their clubs (I won't mention them all but it's an open secret that Leigh RMI were one) but how the hell could we justify that as a club borne out of Glazer's takeover! By and large, I think we've acheived what we set out to do without becoming arrogant about it. Of course we want to win our league and get promoted, that's the overall objective after all and it's inevitable that we'll use some of our financial clout over other teams to acheive that, it's in the nature of the beast, but Karl Margison (manager) has been aware of the need to do that without attracting players from too high up the pyramid system and has done it succesfully. Our team this season is totally different to last as we didn't go overboard in our first season and needed to attract better players to do well in this league. If, as we should, we go up this season then it's inevitable some current players will be left behind in the need to improve quality. It's not all about money though with these players, imagine yourself in that position, you are playing at the bottom of the pyramid system in front of gates of 35 every week and you are offered the opportunity to play in front of 2000-5000 passionate supporters every week and play all your home games at football league status ground! To be honest, players will be atrracted to us for many reasons other than money! I'm not knocking anyone's motives (fans or players past present or future) and I still applaud the core objective, mate. I just think it's a bit of a 'shame' that the experience of being the massive club with resources beyond compare is automatically replicated. As long as nobody is ever allowed to get their fingers in the till however then of course there can be no substantive criticism. In that ideological sense (and of course the friendship ties etc) it's worthwhile building the club. It's why I put Barcelona on a pedestal in terms of the 'big' clubs tbh. Did you see the unicef shirt sponsorship this year btw? Nice touch that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34348 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Take your Midlands chat elsewhere lads. It's not wanted around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Take your Midlands chat elsewhere lads. It's not wanted around here. How man! Robbie Williams is from Stoke and he considers himself a northerner! That's good enough for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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