Guest stevieintoon Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 When I was a kid, I grew up accepting the fact that we were shit. We sold our best players, were delighted to avoid relegation, and replaced stars with mediocrity. From top to bottom we accepted the fact we weren't ever going to get much better, all most of us had ever known was mediocrity and destroyed dreams, so we didn't expect anything. The loser mentality went through the club from top to bottom. I don't blame McFaul or Jack Charlton or Jim Smith for this, they didn't have the tools or the means of making us any better, and why bother anyway when mid table is seen as achievement. We bought players occasionally who were good but never the best, we signed players the top teams would turn their nose up, because in truth it's all we could get. In 1992 Keegan came in, and changed everybodies mindset about who we are, and what we should expect. Keegan indirectly questioned the very expectations of the fans. Why should we feel inferior to anyone? Why have we accepted we're not good enough? Why can't we be like Liverpool? Why don't we at least attempt to buy the best players? These are all questions which in my opinion sum up Kevin Keegan's reign at the club. He gave us the self esteem as supporters, and as a club on the whole, that we hadn't known for generations. Even after Keegan left, we've maintained the self-esteem. How often do you hear the words "Newcastle are a massive club."? What does that mean? It can mean many things, but Keegan's reign at the club made us realise that we should be proud, and we didn't win anything during his time but I think we have fond memories to look back on. We went from being delighted with signing John Robertson and Mick Quinn, to being delighted with signing Ferdinand, Tino and Shearer. Our expectation was now, we can get the best. Freddie Shepherd, continued this mind-set. Yes he has made catastrophic errors, some might say he's well past last chance saloon, he probably is, but he kept the self esteem going. Maybe it's embarrassing listening to him say we're the 8th biggest club in the world, but the fact he even utters this myth shows however ridiculous it is we are a big entity, with big ambitions. The fact we bid for Rooney, and were bold enough to sign Michael Owen, no matter what anybody says, shows the club at the top, have high standards and high expectations, even though work on the defence has been needed for a long time. My worry is now with Glenn Roeder, he is lowering the bar month by month. We've went from being linked with Ronaldinho, to our manager coming out and announcing he is an admirer of Kenny Miller, and sees him as a potential target. Would Keegan or SBR or even Souness employed Antoine Sibierski? Would they have signed a centre half with little or no top class experience from a club who aren't even amongst Belgium's elite? Would Keegan have told someone who has consistently let the club down over a 5 year period, that he still has seven games to win a new contract? Would Keegan have announced on the radio that he's going to set his team out to get a draw away at a small Dutch club? I desperately want Roeder to do well, but the club, without doubt is in free-fall. Five years ago, or even under Dalglish, I never seriously entertained the idea of relegation. "Newcastle United RELEGATED pfffft" We're in a situation now where in my opinion the only reason we're not potential candidates for relegation is because there's so much shit in the league. Since Robson left in 2004, I think without doubt we have been overtaken by Bolton, Tottenham and Everton, I can't even believe I'm typing these words, that clubs such as the above are in a better position in every way than ourselves, but the three of them are. They have players who want to play for the club, they have managers with the personality to make big decisions, and not let their errors (i.e never dropping Parker), stop them from correcting their mistakes. In many ways, our position right now paralells the position of global climate. We've fucked it up quite badly. People at the top have made vital errors which are causing cataclysmic problems, things are getting worse, and they will become almost irreversable if things aren't changed now. We need to get our self-esteem back. It's a cliche, but we have 52,000 fucking people, who have put up with this shite for 3 years, we deserve a manager who at least has a clear vision of how to make us great. Defending 1-0 leads, when it's the worst aspect of our play, is small time. Chasing Kenny Miller is small time. Blaming opposition spoiling tactics as the key reason for home defeats is small time. Even hinting the fans are to blame, is a disgrace. I want to stay as loyal to Roeder as I can, but he's not big enough to do the job, and he's gradually bringing us down to his level. I will never think of Newcastle United as a run of the mill club, like an Everton or Bolton, but that's exactly what we have become, it won't change while Glenn Roeder is manager of Newcastle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Bridge 0 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 I agree. I'll post my comments tomorrow, when I'm not so fucked, but well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17620 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Good post Stevie, agree with most of it except the implication Shepherd isn't more culpable for our present predicament. Mind, I find it hard to believe you didn't have this one stashed away somehwere ready to present after the next bad home defeat.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevieintoon Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Good post Stevie, agree with most of it except the implication Shepherd isn't more culpable for our present predicament. Mind, I find it hard to believe you didn't have this one stashed away somehwere ready to present after the next bad home defeat.......... hehe no mate. I hate fickle fans. I've tried my best to support Roeder, I've stuck for him when he's been attacked, but nothing is changing, he can't even use the injury excuse anymore. It feels from my point of view like when a father watches his son playing football, he desperately wants him to play for Man Utd or Newcastle, but in his heart he knows he's shite. He hasn't got it in his persona to manage at the top, by having him as manager we're devaluing the club. How many players are going to think "yeah I'd love to work with Roeder" in the same way we got a lot in because of who Keegan was. We've lost to Fulham, Sheffield United, Birmingham, Bolton and now Manchester City, and of the three relegation candidates, we've only collected maximum home points from one. That's no where near good enough, I've been patient, or the fans as a whole have been too. Lets not start this shit "we're to blame too" are we fuck, if they were showing 100% commitment, we wouldn't moan anyway. Today was the straw that broke the camels back for me. His disgraceful treatment of James Milner, and the fact clearly he can't motivate the players. The only time they looked motivated was when they went behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13808 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Newcastle 1-5 Birmingham That killed me this season. Never in the world i wouldve said.... Im Still Toon Through and through, Il buy the match tickets. il buy the shit top, il sing the songs but im still dead inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Good posts Stevie. I've had more than enough of Roeder and agree that all we're destined for under him is mediocrity. The bloke is just nowhere near good enough to manage this club - he can't make the big decisions off the pitch, and he can't make the big decisions on it. We need a strong manager - all this "Glenn Roeder has always stood up" shit is him trying to convince himself that he's got it in him to do this job. He knows as well as the rest of us that it's beyond him. I just watch the way he stands on the touchline at matches with his hands in his pockets, staring at the mess that he's created on the pitch, and he does NOTHING to change it. No words of encouragement, no tactical switches, no messages to certain players about where they're going wrong. And it's because he doesn't know what to do. We have to get rid of this bloke in the summer or we're going to fall even further behind. It won't happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Any confidence I had in Roeder dissapated in a heartbeat today after seeing his inept choice of starting players from a large injury-free pool. The lateness of his substitutions was the icing on the cake of no-confidence. My concern now is that if he is still with us in the summer he will prove to be equally inept at bringing in the "right" kind of players to strengthen the team even if he is given enough spending money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. :lol: Now if the scales fall from Patrokles' eyes too, we knows he's fucked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. :lol: Now if the scales fall from Patrokles' eyes too, we knows he's fucked! If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. :lol: Now if the scales fall from Patrokles' eyes too, we knows he's fucked! If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... I don't even buy into him being a nice guy tbh. His snidey comments about other managers have annoyed me for a while now. I just think he's a clueless tit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. :lol: Now if the scales fall from Patrokles' eyes too, we knows he's fucked! If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... I don't even buy into him being a nice guy tbh. His snidey comments about other managers have annoyed me for a while now. I just think he's a clueless tit. Since when do you care about the feelings of other managers?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Yep, I can't defend him anymore. Despite being a decent bloke and saying the right things, he's just not good enough... He has to go at the END of the season, with a replacement being looked for NOW. :lol: Now if the scales fall from Patrokles' eyes too, we knows he's fucked! If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... I don't even buy into him being a nice guy tbh. His snidey comments about other managers have annoyed me for a while now. I just think he's a clueless tit. ......and regardless of his little charade he talked himself into the job.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super7 0 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 According to Talksport yesterday a lot of the media think Roeder is on the way in the Summer. They think Shepherd has been going on about European qualification being the minimum standard a lot recently to lay the foundations to get rid of him - apparently he was going on about it in the programme yesterday (I don't buy it anymore so I didn't see it). The thing is though how many of us have confidence in Shepherd appointing a decent replacement after Gullit, Souness and Roeder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. How much there was available to him is obviously not up to him, but I felt for the first time in ages that we wouldn't be paying over the odds for crap players. He has a reputation for being over cautious as a result, but players like Marcelino, Luque, Cort and Boumsong have done far more damage to the club than Roeder's careful spending. I don't think he's really done much wrong in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. Damien Duff - £5m (great price for a player we still didn't need. It's like your lass going "look at my new handbag, three hundred quid off! Bargain".........."oh yeah, how much did it cost?"......."£500!") Obafemi Martins - £10m (jury still out in a big way) Olivier Bernard's wages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micktoon 0 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Good post. Pretty much sums up the situation. Roeder is clueless, out of his depth and is dragging the club down at an alarming rate. I don't think we'll go down, but looking at what could come up we could be in deep brown steamy next season. This close season could be one of the biggest for a number of years if the wrong decisions are made this summer we could be landed in shit that will take us years to recover from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. How much there was available to him is obviously not up to him, but I felt for the first time in ages that we wouldn't be paying over the odds for crap players. He has a reputation for being over cautious as a result, but players like Marcelino, Luque, Cort and Boumsong have done far more damage to the club than Roeder's careful spending. I don't think he's really done much wrong in the transfer market. Was it careful buying though? When we were crying out for numbers at the back he wasted 5 million on Duff and god knows whatever wages and signing on fee. Bernard wasn't exactly the best signing and we have paid most probably half decent salaries to Rossi and Gooch who have played a minimal part. I also even doubt that Martins was signed as part of the "planning" of careful spending, more like one of the only strikers left available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. Damien Duff - £5m (great price for a player we still didn't need. It's like your lass going "look at my new handbag, three hundred quid off! Bargain".........."oh yeah, how much did it cost?"......."£500!") Obafemi Martins - £10m (jury still out in a big way) Olivier Bernard's wages! Martins is class. I'm absolutely certain that if he were at one of the top four clubs he'd be getting a truckload of goals. I'm not sure how much Bernard is on, but I'm guessing it's relatively little compared to most players on the books. As for Duff...I agree, a position we didn't need cover for, but nobody complained at the time as I recall. He's certainly still worth more or less what we paid for him, unlike Luque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. How much there was available to him is obviously not up to him, but I felt for the first time in ages that we wouldn't be paying over the odds for crap players. He has a reputation for being over cautious as a result, but players like Marcelino, Luque, Cort and Boumsong have done far more damage to the club than Roeder's careful spending. I don't think he's really done much wrong in the transfer market. Was it careful buying though? When we were crying out for numbers at the back he wasted 5 million on Duff and god knows whatever wages and signing on fee. Bernard wasn't exactly the best signing and we have paid most probably half decent salaries to Rossi and Gooch who have played a minimal part. I also even doubt that Martins was signed as part of the "planning" of careful spending, more like one of the only strikers left available. I do concede that we should have gone for Campbell, but again, it could easily have gone the other way and we'd have been shelling out £50k+ a week for a defender who wasn't playing. I'm not saying Roeder did everything right, but his signings still have some value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34167 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. Damien Duff - £5m (great price for a player we still didn't need. It's like your lass going "look at my new handbag, three hundred quid off! Bargain".........."oh yeah, how much did it cost?"......."£500!") Obafemi Martins - £10m (jury still out in a big way) Olivier Bernard's wages! Martins is class. I'm absolutely certain that if he were at one of the top four clubs he'd be getting a truckload of goals. I'm not sure how much Bernard is on, but I'm guessing it's relatively little compared to most players on the books. As for Duff...I agree, a position we didn't need cover for, but nobody complained at the time as I recall. He's certainly still worth more or less what we paid for him, unlike Luque. Martins is not class like. Not even close to it. He is hugely overrated by some of our fans. The lad's pace is totally wasted because of his lack of anticipation - it's used to catch up to defenders, not pull away from them - and his touch is fucking dreadful (I mean, REALLY bad). Shola has a better first touch than Martins ffs. And no one complained about Duff cos no one knew that we were spent up once we'd bought him and Martins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 If he leaves now and we get someone decent, at least we could remember Roeder as a nice guy who did a decent job of patching up Souness's fuckups... If he stays on well....... Not even sure you could say that, exactly what fuck ups did he correct? Glenn Roeder has been made to look better by the state the club was in when he took over, at the time morale was lower than low, all he did was raise it. You can actually picture the dressing room the day we got rid of Souness, "Graemes gone!", "thank god, who we getting in?", "some bloke called Roeder" "Roeder? Roeder? oh aye I know who you mean now, little ratty looking, runs the academy, nice bloke" "GRRRREAT! a nice bloke for a change" For me the man isnt all that nice as G says hes turning out to be a snidey little shite who will blame anyone and everyone except himself. Even if he was I still say its immaterial, theres thousands of "nice blokes" out there but I wouldnt employ them to run the club. He's the first manager in a long time to not waste money. Damien Duff - £5m (great price for a player we still didn't need. It's like your lass going "look at my new handbag, three hundred quid off! Bargain".........."oh yeah, how much did it cost?"......."£500!") Obafemi Martins - £10m (jury still out in a big way) Olivier Bernard's wages! Martins is class. I'm absolutely certain that if he were at one of the top four clubs he'd be getting a truckload of goals. I'm not sure how much Bernard is on, but I'm guessing it's relatively little compared to most players on the books. I am still not sure if Martins is really class. He scores some nice goals sure and shows potential, but his overall contribution to the game is often appalling. He needs a lot of learning to warrant his price tag. I guess for any top four club he would exactly be what he was at Inter - a super sub you can throw on at the end of the game against tiered defences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17620 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Martins is not class like. Not even close to it. He is hugely overrated by some of our fans. The lad's pace is totally wasted because of his lack of anticipation - it's used to catch up to defenders, not pull away from them - and his touch is fucking dreadful (I mean, REALLY bad). Shola has a better first touch than Martins ffs. And no one complained about Duff cos no one knew that we were spent up once we'd bought him and Martins. Agree with that assessment of Martins, his complete lack of class is shown by his poor first touch which is really bad. I don't rate him really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 And no one complained about Duff cos no one knew that we were spent up once we'd bought him and Martins. http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?...226&st=200# (unless someone did alter my post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now