Charles N'Zogbia

[Gemmill 34419]

We signed a £5m trophy player instead of addressing the actual weaknesses in our team. Simple as that really.

 

Shouldn't N'Zogbia be fighting for his place though? He's been crap this year tbf.

 

He's been kept out of the team by a bloke that shouldn't have been getting a game - pretty demoralising I imagine. Then when he's finally fit and the other bloke gets injured, we rejig the team so that he still doesn't get a game.

 

I don't really buy that, competition should make him more determined. Maybe he hasn't warranted his place; difficult to believe, I know, considering the opposition.

In the ideal case yes. But not every player responds to this kind of "motivation" in the same way. I think the fact that Roeder rather plays right footed players in this position would piss me off big time as well. And unhappy players rarely perform.

Then he shouldnt be playing sport for a living. Simple as that. If a sportsman doesnt respond to competition then they should be booted out of the sport.

 

Get rid.

It doesn't work like that, loads of players regardless of their talent would have got the hump the way N'Zogbia appears to have done with the treatment he's had. There's definitely been favouritism shown towards Duff for example which is understandable but not right. Signing Duff in the first place was less understandable. To turn things round, N'Zogbia could have been performing better than Duff in training etc. earlier in the season but still not getting a look-in. Either way, one of the main things about being a good manager is knowing how to deal with different personalities.

The point being he has to fight for his place. If its not in his nature to fight for his place then my point stands.

 

As for his treatment, he is young and not that good. You'd think we had Romario on our hands.

 

Nobody's saying he's the next Thierry Henry or anything, but he was until recently one of the few bright spots we had in our squad - a talented attacking player who liked to run at people, had a few tricks up his sleeve, wasn't easy to knock off the ball, and did a good job tracking back when needed. Now he just looks like total shit.

 

Neither of us know if he has an issue with fighting for his place, but I can see how he would feel pretty put-out with his treatment this season. Duff quite clearly was misfiring - if we can see that, N'Zogbia can see it, and Roeder should have seen it - and yet N'Zogbia doesn't get a look-in. Now you can talk about competitive spirit and fighting for your place all you like, but there comes a point when he must have been left scratching his head wondering just how badly Duff needed to play for him to get a game. He's pretty much been frozen out of the first team, for whatever reason since Duff arrived. Canny demoralising, and he went from being someone who sent a buzz around SJP when he picked the ball up (that's not an exaggeration btw) to what we see now. I doubt that's all down to the player tbh.

[Guest alex]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

Aye, last season, before Duff arrived, coincidentally.

When was his last good game?

[Isegrim 8870]

We signed a £5m trophy player instead of addressing the actual weaknesses in our team. Simple as that really.

 

Shouldn't N'Zogbia be fighting for his place though? He's been crap this year tbf.

 

He's been kept out of the team by a bloke that shouldn't have been getting a game - pretty demoralising I imagine. Then when he's finally fit and the other bloke gets injured, we rejig the team so that he still doesn't get a game.

 

I don't really buy that, competition should make him more determined. Maybe he hasn't warranted his place; difficult to believe, I know, considering the opposition.

In the ideal case yes. But not every player responds to this kind of "motivation" in the same way. I think the fact that Roeder rather plays right footed players in this position would piss me off big time as well. And unhappy players rarely perform.

Then he shouldnt be playing sport for a living. Simple as that. If a sportsman doesnt respond to competition then they should be booted out of the sport.

 

Get rid.

Nonsense. There have been loads of players who liked to throw a tantrum when they are not treated like prima donnas. I'm not saying that N'Zogbia is in the league of Romario or Klinsmann for example, but to say those kind of players should not be playing sport for a living is hilarious. You have to deal with them as they are - good managers are able to.

Those players 'demonstrated' why they should be in the team when they were on the pitch. Massive difference here. Both of those players had fierce competitive spirits too, so not sure wtf you are on about. Maybe my point about him needing a competitive nature needs re-iterating.

They were just two players springing to my mind who didn't like competition. There have been many more. Klinsmann for example had clauses in his contracts at the end of his career who secured him to be first choice player. He also left every club as soon as possible when his first choice status was in danger. Doesn't really fit into your description that players who don't like competition shouldn't do sports for a living, does it?

 

As I said, a lot of footballers are prima donnas and it is for good managers to deal with difficult characters. I canunderstand criticism about players behaviour if they don't have a reason to be upset. But in the case of N'Zogbia I think some of behaviour at least looks understandable. He looked like one of the biggest prospects Newcastle had their hands on. In fact he is one of the young gems Roeder always talks about when he babbles about copying Arsenal and their ability of unearthing unknown players. So I think that Newcastle should put a bit more effort in it to hang on that kind of players if they don't want to rely on developing more "talents" like Ramage, Pattison et al.

[ChezGiven 0]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

If you mean under Roeder then he has played well for him already then. If the change was after the arrival of Duff then the lad is a prick. He was not exactly a game winner (it is possible to be at that age, just look at Man U) so why shouldnt the squad strengthen in midfield in his area? He has also stated that he prefers to play more centrally.

 

He has no right at that age to be put out by the arrival of a player that will compete for his place.

[Isegrim 8870]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

His last good game was the first of the season when he made the real difference to the team after coming on against Wigan. He was the only one showing hunger and taking on players. He got rewarded with being dropped to the bench again afterwards. That's when it all went downhill imho.

[Gemmill 34419]

Hey Isegrim, speaking of Klinsmann, I heard on the news that there's been a baby boom in Germany in March which is being directly attributed to all you filthy Germans ragging during the World Cup to celebrate Germany' s success. Birth rate up 30% in March - apparently they're calling them the Klinsi Generation or something.

[Gemmill 34419]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

If you mean under Roeder then he has played well for him already then. If the change was after the arrival of Duff then the lad is a prick. He was not exactly a game winner (it is possible to be at that age, just look at Man U) so why shouldnt the squad strengthen in midfield in his area? He has also stated that he prefers to play more centrally.

 

He has no right at that age to be put out by the arrival of a player that will compete for his place.

 

He has every right to be put out by being kept out by a player who is plainly underperforming, but who no matter how bad he plays doesn't get dropped though. No one is suggesting that his lip went on the day we signed Duff. He could be a match winner btw (more so than the majority of our first team), and at 18/19 he was certainly worth keeping in the first team frame a lot more than Roeder has bothered to.

[Guest alex]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

If you mean under Roeder then he has played well for him already then. If the change was after the arrival of Duff then the lad is a prick. He was not exactly a game winner (it is possible to be at that age, just look at Man U) so why shouldnt the squad strengthen in midfield in his area? He has also stated that he prefers to play more centrally.

 

He has no right at that age to be put out by the arrival of a player that will compete for his place.

I meant he's not the only one whose last good game was last season. Just a joke lyke, y'knaa?

[ChezGiven 0]

We signed a £5m trophy player instead of addressing the actual weaknesses in our team. Simple as that really.

 

Shouldn't N'Zogbia be fighting for his place though? He's been crap this year tbf.

 

He's been kept out of the team by a bloke that shouldn't have been getting a game - pretty demoralising I imagine. Then when he's finally fit and the other bloke gets injured, we rejig the team so that he still doesn't get a game.

 

I don't really buy that, competition should make him more determined. Maybe he hasn't warranted his place; difficult to believe, I know, considering the opposition.

In the ideal case yes. But not every player responds to this kind of "motivation" in the same way. I think the fact that Roeder rather plays right footed players in this position would piss me off big time as well. And unhappy players rarely perform.

Then he shouldnt be playing sport for a living. Simple as that. If a sportsman doesnt respond to competition then they should be booted out of the sport.

 

Get rid.

Nonsense. There have been loads of players who liked to throw a tantrum when they are not treated like prima donnas. I'm not saying that N'Zogbia is in the league of Romario or Klinsmann for example, but to say those kind of players should not be playing sport for a living is hilarious. You have to deal with them as they are - good managers are able to.

Those players 'demonstrated' why they should be in the team when they were on the pitch. Massive difference here. Both of those players had fierce competitive spirits too, so not sure wtf you are on about. Maybe my point about him needing a competitive nature needs re-iterating.

They were just two players springing to my mind who didn't like competition. There have been many more. Klinsmann for example had clauses in his contracts at the end of his career who secured him to be first choice player. He also left every club as soon as possible when his first choice status was in danger. Doesn't really fit into your description that players who don't like competition shouldn't do sports for a living, does it?

 

 

 

If you want to spin that as not wanting competition for a place rather than him being a prima donna then yeah, great example. However using Klinsmann as a comparison to Zog is just laughable (you must be a wee bit embarrassed?). Klinsmann was one of the best centre forwards in the world whose competitive spirit (and cheating spirit) was there for all to see.

 

I'm not arguing Zog isnt a prima donna, he may well be but the point is he has no right to be. He should be made to fight for his place when he hasnt proven he is worth it.

[Isegrim 8870]

Hey Isegrim, speaking of Klinsmann, I heard on the news that there's been a baby boom in Germany in March which is being directly attributed to all you filthy Germans ragging during the World Cup to celebrate Germany' s success. Birth rate up 30% in March - apparently they're calling them the Klinsi Generation or something.

I rather attribute it to the consumption of alcohol during the World Cup. It was ridiculous how willing the mixture of sun, alcohol and football made loads of women during the big public events. I'll call them the Beer generation...

[ChezGiven 0]

When was his last good game?

Last season in fairness. He's not the only one though.

 

If you mean under Roeder then he has played well for him already then. If the change was after the arrival of Duff then the lad is a prick. He was not exactly a game winner (it is possible to be at that age, just look at Man U) so why shouldnt the squad strengthen in midfield in his area? He has also stated that he prefers to play more centrally.

 

He has no right at that age to be put out by the arrival of a player that will compete for his place.

I meant he's not the only one whose last good game was last season. Just a joke lyke, y'knaa?

You could have meant under Souness.

[Guest alex]

Calm down dear

[Gemmill 34419]

Paranoid. All them drugs.

[Isegrim 8870]

We signed a £5m trophy player instead of addressing the actual weaknesses in our team. Simple as that really.

 

Shouldn't N'Zogbia be fighting for his place though? He's been crap this year tbf.

 

He's been kept out of the team by a bloke that shouldn't have been getting a game - pretty demoralising I imagine. Then when he's finally fit and the other bloke gets injured, we rejig the team so that he still doesn't get a game.

 

I don't really buy that, competition should make him more determined. Maybe he hasn't warranted his place; difficult to believe, I know, considering the opposition.

In the ideal case yes. But not every player responds to this kind of "motivation" in the same way. I think the fact that Roeder rather plays right footed players in this position would piss me off big time as well. And unhappy players rarely perform.

Then he shouldnt be playing sport for a living. Simple as that. If a sportsman doesnt respond to competition then they should be booted out of the sport.

 

Get rid.

Nonsense. There have been loads of players who liked to throw a tantrum when they are not treated like prima donnas. I'm not saying that N'Zogbia is in the league of Romario or Klinsmann for example, but to say those kind of players should not be playing sport for a living is hilarious. You have to deal with them as they are - good managers are able to.

Those players 'demonstrated' why they should be in the team when they were on the pitch. Massive difference here. Both of those players had fierce competitive spirits too, so not sure wtf you are on about. Maybe my point about him needing a competitive nature needs re-iterating.

They were just two players springing to my mind who didn't like competition. There have been many more. Klinsmann for example had clauses in his contracts at the end of his career who secured him to be first choice player. He also left every club as soon as possible when his first choice status was in danger. Doesn't really fit into your description that players who don't like competition shouldn't do sports for a living, does it?

 

 

 

If you want to spin that as not wanting competition for a place rather than him being a prima donna then yeah, great example. However using Klinsmann as a comparison to Zog is just laughable (you must be a wee bit embarrassed?). Klinsmann was one of the best centre forwards in the world whose competitive spirit (and cheating spirit) was there for all to see.

 

I'm not arguing Zog isnt a prima donna, he may well be but the point is he has no right to be. He should be made to fight for his place when he hasnt proven he is worth it.

I'm not embarrassed at all and stand to this comparison. Some players are prima donnas and don't respond well to competition. Some with more just reason, some with less. But it is a common thing in the psyche of a lot of professional sportsmen (who according to you should not be sportsmen by profession as you said earlier). And yes, I think as much as players should ideally be able to handle competition, managers should be able to handle difficult players. And for me the N'Zogbia situation is a self made problem that is partly down to the player being a egocentric twat and to a large part down to a manager having no man management skills at all.

Edited May 1, 2007 by Isegrim

[David Kelly 1117]

I think it's fair to say that he does seem to have taken a huff at the arrival of Duff even before it became clear Duff wasn't performing.

He should have tried to show he should be playing but he hasn't done that on the pitch and he has to take responsibility for that.

Equally though it seems that Roeder's handling of the situation has been poor which has made matters worse.

You can also add the fact that whoever has been playing left wing has been hamstrung by the fact that they have had very little support from the right footed centreback's who have usually occupied the left back spot behind them!

[Guest alex]

Shearer doesn't like competition btw

[Gemmill 34419]

I think it's fair to say that he does seem to have taken a huff at the arrival of Duff even before it became clear Duff wasn't performing.

 

Wasn't he pretty much dropped as soon as Duff was fit to play though? I'm not sure how you can make the claim that he took the huff the minute Duff arrived.

 

I just look at him now, and everything about the lad screams that he's not happy here - he's always been a miserable looking fucker, but now his form has dipped, he doesn't look anything like the exciting talent he did last season, and it's Roeder's job to sort that out. When it's obvious that you have a member of staff that is sick of their life, you have to work with them to try and make things better - it's a manager's job.

Edited May 1, 2007 by Gemmill

[ChezGiven 0]

I was just continuing the debate alex. If you want to blame Roeder for his decline then the case would be stronger if he had not played well since just after he took over. If he continued to play well then turned to shit after the arrival of Duff, i'm more inclined to blame him.

 

Tbf I am a little confused as to why i am comparing N'Zogbia to Klinsmann as evidence as to whether we should keep him though.

[David Kelly 1117]

I think it's fair to say that he does seem to have taken a huff at the arrival of Duff even before it became clear Duff wasn't performing.

 

Wasn't he pretty much dropped as soon as Duff was fit to play though? I'm not sure how you can make the claim that he took the huff the minute Duff arrived.

His head has seemed to be down ever since Duff's arrival to me at least. I'm not saying I wouldn't be pissed off if I were in his position but I would keep trying to do something about it. I just haven't seen that from him.

The whole problem stems from a poor use of our resources in the transfer window though.

[ChezGiven 0]

Ise, you think I said that prima donnas shouldnt be sportsmen? You've based all your replies to me on that basis? Fuckin ell man. I said he has to deal with competition for his place. You've tried to shift the debate towards 'the type of player who needs an arm around him' cliché.

 

You should be embarrassed about the comparison to Klinsmann and N'Zogbia btw.

Edited May 1, 2007 by ChezGiven

[Isegrim 8870]

Shearer doesn't like competition btw

Should never have made a living out of it tbh. The fact that he still considered himself undropable when his legs had long gone was actually partly the beginning of the downfall under Robson imho. Though, in Shearer's case the will to always be first choice and being in a huff when dropped to the bench will probably be considered to be a sign of his professionalism...

[Guest alex]

I was just continuing the debate alex. If you want to blame Roeder for his decline then the case would be stronger if he had not played well since just after he took over. If he continued to play well then turned to shit after the arrival of Duff, i'm more inclined to blame him.

 

Tbf I am a little confused as to why i am comparing N'Zogbia to Klinsmann as evidence as to whether we should keep him though.

I honestly think everyone got a lift when Souness left and that was a major part of the revival at the end of last season. Btw, Given doesn't like competition

[Isegrim 8870]

You should be embarrassed about the comparison to Klinsmann and N'Zogbia btw.

 

If I had compared ability, yes. But as I only compared their egocentric twatness, no.

[ChezGiven 0]

I was just continuing the debate alex. If you want to blame Roeder for his decline then the case would be stronger if he had not played well since just after he took over. If he continued to play well then turned to shit after the arrival of Duff, i'm more inclined to blame him.

 

Tbf I am a little confused as to why i am comparing N'Zogbia to Klinsmann as evidence as to whether we should keep him though.

I honestly think everyone got a lift when Souness left and that was a major part of the revival at the end of last season. Btw, Given doesn't like competition

Shearer and Given have proven themselves. Once Charlie boy has he can prime his donna as much as he wants. Untill then the lazy french twat can forget about 35 hour weeks and taking August off.

[Mark 0]

Way too big of an Ego. He makes Dyer look like a canny lad.