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Craig

Sam - a view

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roeder-allardyce.jpg

 

The current popular view seems to be that were are inevitably heading towards a union with free agent Sam Allardyce.

 

Just in case there's an ounce of truth in that story, we feel compelled to say that we're not totally beside ourselves with excitement over this, for the following reasons:

 

The Panorama programme:

 

We're not going to attract any lawsuits by commenting on the allegations, but let's recall that the eyebrows raised about Allardyce stemmed from comments made on camera by his own son, Craig.

 

Kevin Bond seems to have shown the door at SJP after a far less substantial afterthought tagged on the end of the same programme.

 

(NB: There's been no sign of the threatened legal action from Allardyce against the BBC as yet. His son is no longer an agent and was last reported as being involved the Spanish property market).

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

 

Signings & Spending:

 

Allardyce to date has been good with small budgets, buying older players and wringing the very last drops of effort out of them. Hopes are a little higher here - just.

 

The signing of Nicolas Anelka was hailed as his by far his biggest deal - a player repeatedly touted to Newcastle, but sent on his bike for numerous valid reasons, only for Bolton to take him.

 

Either the player's outrageous demands were toned down - or Bolton were prepared to meet them.

 

What could he do with a bigger budget? Who knows? He remains unproven at a big club with a large fan base with big (unrealistic? possibly) expectations.

 

The Cult of Personality:

 

One of the least attractive traits Allardyce shows is a rent-a-quote tendency to shout the odds, especially when Sky cameras are rolling.

 

When speaking from an LMA perspective, his vocal opposition to Roeder's permanent appointment at SJP verged on the obnoxious, while referring to oneself in the third person as "Big Sam" in his Bolton programme notes spoke volumes.

 

Some shameless self-promotion when he thought he would replace Sven as the next England manager was also unbecoming.

 

Allardyce's genuine incredulity at not being appointed suggested a frightening degree of self- absorption. That comes across as big -headedness at times.

 

No, No, Yes:

 

Allardyce has already turned us down after Sir Bobby Robson and his putter were given their cards. Why? He obviously thought that he was at a better club then - or needed to give his chairman a nudge to open his wallet.

 

(Note that we have it on decent authority that Allardyce has twice turned down the chance to take over at SJP - the second one presumably being post-Souness.)

 

Has our stock really fallen so much and is this guy so wonderful that we'll now go back for a third time?

 

Red & White eyes:

 

He's an ex-mackem. OK, that's not a reason to avoid employing an outstanding manager or player - we'd have welcomed Brian Clough at the height of his managerial powers.

 

For a section of the fanbase though, this remains another obstacle Allardyce would have to overcome before gaining acceptance.

 

Young Man:

 

Bolton's reserve side have just won the league. They played Newcastle on Tyneside in March, lining up with a side composed of two Poles, two Slovaks, an Israeli, an Iranian, a Portuguese, a Spaniard and three Englishmen.

 

Allardyce has shown he's prepared to bring young players into the first team, but not necessarily local young players.

 

Without lapsing into John Hall Geordie Nation rhetoric - is this important to us or not?

 

On the other hand:

 

His on-field organisation is undeniable, even if some of his purchases are less than savoury (Diouf in a black and white shirt anyone?).

 

The signing of Gary Speed and his consequent Reebok renaissance is interesting, both in terms of what Allarydce achieved and also that one of the most respected professionals still playing was content under Sam's stewardship.

 

Trying to look in from the outside, to turn our noses up at Allardyce for perceived stylistic shortcomings is verging on the pious - his side has finished above us in the league for the last three seasons.

 

That has echoes of Arthur Cox's appointment, when people were openly disappointed that big names like McMenemy, Paisley, Clough, Robson etc. weren't coming to SJP.

 

Then, as now, why the hell would they?

 

Unlike the Souness and Roeder appointments, our inbox isn't bulging with emails from fans of their previous clubs warning of the dire consequences of employing their ex.

 

The NUFC.com get out clause:

 

So who do we suggest then? Simple. We suggest no-one. No internet campaigns, no online petitions. Nein Danke.

 

If someone wants to pay us the Chairman's wages then we will happily scour the planet to unearth the next Arsene Wenger.

 

Until then though we'll try to present a vaguely coherent and independent viewpoint, rather than just recycling other people's views or writing things to please those in power.

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.

 

Send comments, views, threats etc. Biffa

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his side has finished above us in the league for the last three seasons.

 

 

Eh? They only finished above us in 04/05.

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his side has finished above us in the league for the last three seasons.

 

 

Eh? They only finished above us in 04/05.

 

Good point (although they'll finish above us this year so they may be counting that).

 

Hit the email button! :panic:

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Hit the email button! :panic:

 

I bet you do as well. :panic:

 

The two of them have got very little positive to say about anything imo. A lot of their objections to him being here are cobblers an'all - he used to play for the mackems so would have to win people over ffs.

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For the record, I think they may have a valid point. We're excited at the prospect of Allardyce because he's better than what we have at present.

 

That to me is more a testament of how much we've gone into decline rather than how better Big Sam has become. When he was being touted before Souness got the job, most people didn't think he was good enough.

 

The point they make that I do strongly agree with is:

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.

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I kind of see where they're coming from, although they are a bit negative lately. Although, what is there to be positive about tbf. Think what they're trying to say is that don't just panic appoint him because he's available, explore all other options.

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The point they make that I do strongly agree with is:

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.

 

Which, judging by what he's done at Bolton, is what I would anticipate Allardyce trying to do. As for us being in a state and Allardyce only being attractive because we're on the decline - he's taken Bolton from nowhere to being a fixture in the top half of the Premiership on very little money. I think he's proven that he's plenty good enough for what we're looking for, and a good deal better than the muppet he would be replacing.

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With a manger like Allardyce and the setup you can see he has put into Bolton over time, I think a lot of people will be prepared to give him a chance. :panic:

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The point they make that I do strongly agree with is:

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.

 

Which, judging by what he's done at Bolton, is what I would anticipate Allardyce trying to do. As for us being in a state and Allardyce only being attractive because we're on the decline - he's taken Bolton from nowhere to being a fixture in the top half of the Premiership on very little money. I think he's proven that he's plenty good enough for what we're looking for, and a good deal better than the muppet he would be replacing.

 

I'm assuming the reference they were making was more to do with the setup above the level of team manager. And that is something I do think needs rectifying.

 

As was pointed out the other day, in the summer of 2004, we were considered on a level with Liverpool. Since then, their board's actions have moved the club forward, ours quite the opposite.

 

In terms of what you say from the footballing POV, I do agree with you on that one but then we're assuming he'll have the same freedom as Gartside offered him at Bolton.

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I reckon he'd walk if he didn't get that freedom, Craig. Actually I don't think he'd sign up if he wasn't guaranteed it.

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The point about Allardyce being an ex-Mackem is ridiculous. I'd rather they used the influence they seem to have (on public opinion, that is) to help Roeder get the sack instead of implicitly backing him.

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Guest alex

The point about Allardyce being an ex-Mackem is ridiculous. I'd rather they used the influence they seem to have (on public opinion, that is) to help Roeder get the sack instead of implicitly backing him.

I quite agree.

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I don't see what's negative or miserable about it. They're only saying what everyone thinks, Shepherd needs to appoint someone cabable in his place to rebuild the whole club rather than keep trying to apply a sticking plaster solution to the onfield dross.

 

I find the clamour for Shepherd to make yet another managerial appointment astounding, based on his track record.

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I don't see what's negative or miserable about it. They're only saying what everyone thinks, Shepherd needs to appoint someone cabable in his place to rebuild the whole club rather than keep trying to apply a sticking plaster solution to the onfield dross.

 

I find the clamour for Shepherd to make yet another managerial appointment astounding, based on his track record.

 

Accepting the fact that Shepherd is going nowhere, what alternative do we have? Another Shepherd managerial appointment is all we're left with to try and change things around.

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Guest alex

I don't see how people wanting Shepherd to replace Roeder with someone available, better and (in my eyes) just what the club needs at the moment is astounding.

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I don't see how people wanting Shepherd to replace Roeder with someone available, better and (in my eyes) just what the club needs at the moment is astounding.

 

The clamour is for Roeder to be sacked isn't it. The hope (for some) is that Shepherd can attract Allardyce. The fact is neither party have said it's on the cards and the rumour was that Allardyce left Bolton to take over Man City, not us.

 

I was resoloutley behind Roeder. I'm flip-flopping a bit now because he clearly isn't good enough, but I'm still leaning slightly towards 'better the devil you know'. I fear the Beardsley/Clark show happening.

Edited by Happy Face

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I don't see how people wanting Shepherd to replace Roeder with someone available, better and (in my eyes) just what the club needs at the moment is astounding.

 

The clamour is for Roeder to be sacked isn't it. The hope (for some) is that Shepherd can attract Allardyce. The fact is neither party have said it's on the cards and the rumour was that Allardyce left Bolton to take over Man City, not us.

 

I was resoloutley behind Roeder. I'm flip-flopping a bit now because he clearly isn't good enough, but I'm still leaning slightly towards 'better the devil you know'. I fear the Beardsley/Clark show happening.

 

That's just foolish when we know a better alternative is immediately available.

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I don't see what's negative or miserable about it. They're only saying what everyone thinks, Shepherd needs to appoint someone cabable in his place to rebuild the whole club rather than keep trying to apply a sticking plaster solution to the onfield dross.

 

I find the clamour for Shepherd to make yet another managerial appointment astounding, based on his track record.

 

Accepting the fact that Shepherd is going nowhere, what alternative do we have? Another Shepherd managerial appointment is all we're left with to try and change things around.

 

Or stick with it and hope Glenn can confound expectation. The way I see it things can go one of 3 ways...

 

1) Sack Roeder now. Get Allardyce (or any other sub-par individual) in. The club is still ran as a shambles. We take a loss on players that aren't Allardyces and the whole mediocrity Merry-go-round keeps going for at least another full season.

2) We keep Roeder. The club is still ran as a shambles. We take a loss on players that aren't Roeder's but somehow his signings are good enough and the whole mediocrity Merry-go-round keeps going for another full season.

3) We keep Roeder. The club is still ran as a shambles. We take a loss on players that aren't Roeder's but somehow his signings are even worse. He's sacked early in the season and the pressure on Shepherd is raised even higher as his incompetence is exposed once again.

 

I suppose it's like the "Would you be happy to lose tonight if..." threads. I never want to lose a game, but the question I'd posit is would you be happy to put up with Roeder if it meant the end of Shepherd?

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I don't see how people wanting Shepherd to replace Roeder with someone available, better and (in my eyes) just what the club needs at the moment is astounding.

 

The clamour is for Roeder to be sacked isn't it. The hope (for some) is that Shepherd can attract Allardyce. The fact is neither party have said it's on the cards and the rumour was that Allardyce left Bolton to take over Man City, not us.

 

I was resoloutley behind Roeder. I'm flip-flopping a bit now because he clearly isn't good enough, but I'm still leaning slightly towards 'better the devil you know'. I fear the Beardsley/Clark show happening.

 

That's just foolish when we know a better alternative is immediately available.

 

I refer you to my 3 options post above.

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