Sam - a view

[Gemmill 34162]

We've got some real mongs in our ranks.

 

Its something we recognise clearly on here

 

Is that an insult? I genuinely can't decide btw.

[Happy Face 29]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

Are you accepting that as our lot then? Recognising what we are currently is one thing, settling for it is quite another.

 

Souness, Roeder or Allardyce. I put them all in the same bracket tbh. The revolving door policy on managers everyone knows would have been laughed out of town 10 years ago is what's got to stop. I'm not saying we can attract a top manager, but that I see keeping Roeder and getting Allardyce as having very similar outcomes. Neither involve us shooting up the league.

[NJS 3956]

We've got some real mongs in our ranks.

 

Its something we recognise clearly on here

 

Is that an insult? I genuinely can't decide btw.

 

If you like

 

No I just meant posts like ones in the past about rent-a-mong Sky crowds.

 

 

(If I'd meant it that way I would have said "as this place proves")

[Renton 17580]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

Are you accepting that as our lot then? Recognising what we are currently is one thing, settling for it is quite another.

 

Souness, Roeder or Allardyce. I put them all in the same bracket tbh. The revolving door policy on managers everyone knows would have been laughed out of town 10 years ago is what's got to stop. I'm not saying we can attract a top manager, but that I see keeping Roeder and getting Allardyce as having very similar outcomes. Neither involve us shooting up the league.

 

Not sure you can compare what Allerdyce has achieved with what Roeder has. In fact I'm sure you can't.

[Baggio 0]

The Panorama programme:

 

We're not going to attract any lawsuits by commenting on the allegations, but let's recall that the eyebrows raised about Allardyce stemmed from comments made on camera by his own son, Craig.

 

Kevin Bond seems to have shown the door at SJP after a far less substantial afterthought tagged on the end of the same programme.

 

(NB: There's been no sign of the threatened legal action from Allardyce against the BBC as yet. His son is no longer an agent and was last reported as being involved the Spanish property market).

 

I don't remember him saying anything about taking a bung just a lot of finger pointing in his direction, no smoke without fire and all that but if there was any sort of evidence then he would have been charged by the FA.

 

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

 

I don't think Bolton's style of play is all that bad and it's certainly better than anything we've produced in the last 3 years, it isn't all that much different from the way Chelsea played last season and I don't hear any of their fans moaning about it, probably because it's successful.

 

Would it change if he came here? I doubt he would change the style but if he can get the best out of the players here then it would be a lot more easier on the eye than Bolton.

 

 

Signings & Spending:

 

Allardyce to date has been good with small budgets, buying older players and wringing the very last drops of effort out of them. Hopes are a little higher here - just.

 

The signing of Nicolas Anelka was hailed as his by far his biggest deal - a player repeatedly touted to Newcastle, but sent on his bike for numerous valid reasons, only for Bolton to take him.

 

Either the player's outrageous demands were toned down - or Bolton were prepared to meet them.

 

What could he do with a bigger budget? Who knows? He remains unproven at a big club with a large fan base with big (unrealistic? possibly) expectations.

 

They're correct in saying that he isn't proven with a big budget, however being able to build a competent squad on a budget is something that not many manager's have done successfully in the past, every manager here in the past 10 years has had big money flop signings but with the state of the squad at the moment we'll need quality in numbers rather than a few big name "trophy" signings.

 

 

The Cult of Personality:

 

One of the least attractive traits Allardyce shows is a rent-a-quote tendency to shout the odds, especially when Sky cameras are rolling.

 

When speaking from an LMA perspective, his vocal opposition to Roeder's permanent appointment at SJP verged on the obnoxious, while referring to oneself in the third person as "Big Sam" in his Bolton programme notes spoke volumes.

 

Some shameless self-promotion when he thought he would replace Sven as the next England manager was also unbecoming.

 

Allardyce's genuine incredulity at not being appointed suggested a frightening degree of self- absorption. That comes across as big -headedness at times.

 

Obnoxious is way OTT for what he said about Roeder, he basically said he wasn't qualified to manage in the Premiership and that it wasn't fair on all the other managers who spent time and money gaining their qualifications.

 

As for him being big headed, if he can get us back into the top 5 I wouldn't give a shit what he said in interviews, in fact I'd probably be the same.

 

 

No, No, Yes:

 

Allardyce has already turned us down after Sir Bobby Robson and his putter were given their cards. Why? He obviously thought that he was at a better club then - or needed to give his chairman a nudge to open his wallet.

 

(Note that we have it on decent authority that Allardyce has twice turned down the chance to take over at SJP - the second one presumably being post-Souness.)

 

Has our stock really fallen so much and is this guy so wonderful that we'll now go back for a third time?

 

So he turned us down in the past, does it really matter? Robson turned us down too but we went back in for him.

 

I'm not sure he turned us down because he thought he was at a better club, perhaps he was showing loyalty to Bolton and didn't want to walk out on all the hard work he'd put in behind the scenes at the club? Perhaps it was because Shearer was sat in at his interview although I think that's bollocks.

 

From reading Bolton forums it seems they believe he asked Gartside (Bolton chairman) if he could have his permission to come here for talks, Gartside declined and told him if he wanted to come here he would have to walk out on Bolton, Allardyce refused to do that as it wouldn't of looked very good with him being chairman of the LMA or whatever role he holds with them so he stayed at Bolton.

 

 

Red & White eyes:

 

He's an ex-mackem. OK, that's not a reason to avoid employing an outstanding manager or player - we'd have welcomed Brian Clough at the height of his managerial powers.

 

For a section of the fanbase though, this remains another obstacle Allardyce would have to overcome before gaining acceptance.

 

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

 

 

Young Man:

 

Bolton's reserve side have just won the league. They played Newcastle on Tyneside in March, lining up with a side composed of two Poles, two Slovaks, an Israeli, an Iranian, a Portuguese, a Spaniard and three Englishmen.

 

Allardyce has shown he's prepared to bring young players into the first team, but not necessarily local young players.

 

Without lapsing into John Hall Geordie Nation rhetoric - is this important to us or not?

 

How many local lads do Bolton have on their books? I would have thought any decent youngsters in the area would have been snapped up by Man Utd or the other big clubs in the area.

[Happy Face 29]

Not sure you can compare what Allerdyce has achieved with what Roeder has. In fact I'm sure you can't.

 

 

Souness has achieved more than Allardyce.

[Baggio 0]

Not sure you can compare what Allerdyce has achieved with what Roeder has. In fact I'm sure you can't.

 

 

Souness has achieved more than Allardyce.

 

Souness has also achieved more than Keegan.

[Norbert Colon 0]

Totally right - seven points clear of relegation - if it wasn't for a few freak results we'd be deep in the shite - this bloke is goin to take us down and we can only consider ourselves fortunate that it wasn't this season - we are in no position to turn our noses up at Allardyce (who probably isn't on his way anyhow) - he has cut his teeth at a smaller club and yes maybe made mistakes on the way but that is what its all about isn't it?

 

So in conclusion if you want to be laughed at and pissed on by the mackems next season then yes stick with it - but i only hope for a change - a good decision - surely shepherd is due one

[Howaythetoon 0]

Aye, lets not consider a manager who has all the required skills, is available and is more than good enough for us, because he once played for the mackems, talks shite in the papers and because his football team doesn't play like Arsenal.

 

That should narrow it down a bit like.

 

PS Using his mackem link is so like the mackems, how small minded and silly. Bit like not wanting Mourinho because he comes across as a cock on telly, really.

[Happy Face 29]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

We're not going to push for Europe with Roeder, in fact the man is a relegation risk. How have we just fallen short of Europe this year anyway? We're currently 7 points off relegation.

 

 

Well people were still talking Intertoto even up to the Reading game. I think a fit Owen would have added 12 points to our total this year (automatic european place) rather than losing us 7.

Edited May 4, 2007 by Happy Face

[Park Life 70]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

Are you accepting that as our lot then? Recognising what we are currently is one thing, settling for it is quite another.

 

Souness, Roeder or Allardyce. I put them all in the same bracket tbh. The revolving door policy on managers everyone knows would have been laughed out of town 10 years ago is what's got to stop. I'm not saying we can attract a top manager, but that I see keeping Roeder and getting Allardyce as having very similar outcomes. Neither involve us shooting up the league.

 

I don't think you really beleive that Nicos. SA has done wonders at Bolton and it looks like Sammy will continue the good work with all the foundation that has been laid. FS imo clearly gave GR the job in some kind of holding capacity on a relatively short contract. I can only imagine this was a move so as to keep things relatively simple when the right man came along or he got a 2am call from Shearer. The right man has come along imo - not a fantastic manager, but a good one.

[TheInspiration 1]

Bolton's style of play may not be beautiful, but they could be far worse to watch - I mean, they could easily be as bad as Newcastle United are under Glenn Roeder...

[Shearergol 0]

Bolton's style of play may not be beautiful, but they could be far worse to watch - I mean, they could easily be as bad as Newcastle United are under Glenn Roeder...

 

Was going to say exactly the same thing. I'd much rather watch a successful long ball Bolton team than a shite long ball Newcastle one.

[Howaythetoon 0]

For me Allardyce is the best manager outside of the top 4 and streets ahead of Roeder in almost every aspect. I'm not bothered by the lack of trophies on his CV (Souness had loads) or his brand of football (yet better than what we've churned out for a number of years) or whether he talks crap in the media (they all do, even KK did) or the fact he once played for the mackems (so fucking what, so did Jackie Milburn and Sir John Hall once had a season ticket there). No, I prefer to look at results on and off the pitch - the things he has achieved at Bolton - and his own personal skillset which includes all the right things like good grasp of tactics, discipline, motivation, talent spotting, man management, high standards and work ethic. Ideal in every sense.

[Ketsbaia 0]

Wasn't Linfield the only other club Milburn played for bar us HTT? I'd expect you to know that.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Wasn't Linfield the only other club Milburn played for bar us HTT? I'd expect you to know that.

 

Wartime football, played a few times for the mackems.

 

He also claimed Roker Park to be his second favourite stadium after St. James' Park and that he could only ever play for either us, or them if not us, and no-one else.

 

Don't go spreading this though, as the "stan up if you ate sunlun" brigade will be livid

[NJS 3956]

I thought Milburn signed for us in '47 - be surprised if he'd played for them.

 

Not saying he didn't but I can't remember it from is autobiog.

[Howaythetoon 0]

Might not have been war years then, he played in a few friendlies for them though, just assumed it was during the war years. Mind, in them days, the rivalry wasn't so strong or even existed, on a football level that is. Not by much anyway.

Edited May 4, 2007 by Howaythetoon

[Happy Face 29]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

Are you accepting that as our lot then? Recognising what we are currently is one thing, settling for it is quite another.

 

Souness, Roeder or Allardyce. I put them all in the same bracket tbh. The revolving door policy on managers everyone knows would have been laughed out of town 10 years ago is what's got to stop. I'm not saying we can attract a top manager, but that I see keeping Roeder and getting Allardyce as having very similar outcomes. Neither involve us shooting up the league.

 

I don't think you really beleive that Nicos. SA has done wonders at Bolton and it looks like Sammy will continue the good work with all the foundation that has been laid. FS imo clearly gave GR the job in some kind of holding capacity on a relatively short contract. I can only imagine this was a move so as to keep things relatively simple when the right man came along or he got a 2am call from Shearer. The right man has come along imo - not a fantastic manager, but a good one.

 

Allardyce might currently look better than those 2, but I don't see how this appointment would be any different to the one after Souness.

 

Here's a reminder of what some people said about "Big Sam" then...

 

From a Newcastle point of view, I hope he gets the England job.

 

If you think the football's bad to watch under Souness.....

 

We dont have enough long ball merchants for Sam

 

Not for me thankyou.

 

Anyway, he had his chance and bottled it.

 

He wouldn't be my choice at all but if you gave me the option of Allardyce or Souness, I'd take Allardyce, but its like being asked if you would rather have Cancer or AIDS.

 

And there's more, (with some all for it admittedly, not as many as now though)

http://www.toontastic.net/forum/index.php?...ic=1677&hl=

 

I understand times/opinions change, but if Shepherd brings in "Big Sam" he's just perpetuating the revolving door situation that keeps attention away from his failings. As fans we're begging for it by blaming Roeder over Shepherd.

 

I see little benefit from going down this path again.

Edited May 4, 2007 by Happy Face

[Super_Steve_Howey 0]

With what he's got away with already, Fred is untouchable.

[Happy Face 29]

With what he's got away with already, Fred is untouchable.

 

 

Yeah.

 

Look at Doug Ellis at Villa. They won the title and European cup during his hiatus, but within 5 years of returning he had them relegated. The next 20 years and more were interminable mediocrity and only a moment of clarity of huge proportions will see Shepherd realise he's doing the same to us. It's a shame one man can still weild such power, but he's the only one who can realise it and make the changes needed throughout the club, starting with a proper chief executive to take over from him.

[@yourservice 67]

With what he's got away with already, Fred is untouchable.

 

 

Yeah.

 

Look at Doug Ellis at Villa. They won the title and European cup during his hiatus, but within 5 years of returning he had them relegated. The next 20 years and more were interminable mediocrity and only a moment of clarity of huge proportions will see Shepherd realise he's doing the same to us. It's a shame one man can still weild such power, but he's the only one who can realise it and make the changes needed throughout the club, starting with a proper chief executive to take over from him.

I was thinking of the same similarity the other day on the fat one and the Doug one.

How we are gonna be like Villa fans over the years,and wanting the twat out but to no avail,and year after year suffering in the knowledge of knowing how shit the fat controller is and putting up with it.

[Renton 17580]

Take a reality check and see where we are in the scheme of things now.

 

That's what I keep telling people. We're mid-table mediocrity who might push europe in a good year. Why are people calling for Roeder's head if he's only just fallen short of what the club is geared towards under Shepherd.

 

We're not going to push for Europe with Roeder, in fact the man is a relegation risk. How have we just fallen short of Europe this year anyway? We're currently 7 points off relegation.

 

 

Well people were still talking Intertoto even up to the Reading game. I think a fit Owen would have added 12 points to our total this year (automatic european place) rather than losing us 7.

 

How ridiculous. How much better off do you think Bolton would have been with a fit Owen on their side, not to mention the other tens of millions our managers, including Roeder, have wasted?

 

Digging up quotes from the past proves nothing btw, as things have changed, massively. Notice you didn't get a quote from me there btw.

[Happy Face 29]

 

How ridiculous. How much better off do you think Bolton would have been with a fit Owen on their side, not to mention the other tens of millions our managers, including Roeder, have wasted?

 

 

Owen isn't a Bolton player.

 

Roeder's the first manager we've had in a while that's been too reluctant to spend our money.

 

Digging up quotes from the past proves nothing btw, as things have changed, massively. Notice you didn't get a quote from me there btw.

 

How have things changed massively? We're higher in the league and whoever comes in will have a full close season to prepare. But for some reason we'll now accept a manager most of us never wanted when Souness was dragging us down the pan and we desperately needed a quick fix.

[Happy Face 29]

And just so you don't feel left out...

 

Renton,

 

Please tell me what Bruce, O'Leary, Curbishley, Allardyce, Roeder and Burley have WON and then we can agree that I'm right.

 

You don't like Souness? Fine, that's completely your right, but some alternatives have won fuck all.

 

Winning is sometimes a lucky habit beyond any reason.

36077[/snapback]

 

So you list a bunch of managers who have won nothing, what does that prove? I wouldn't want any of them here anyway.