Isegrim 8870 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 The team that SBR lifted from midtable mediocrity into the Championsleague: Given Hughes-Dabizas/O'Brien-Distin-Elliot Solano-Dyer/Lee-Speed-Robert Bellamy-Shearer The team Souness has now: Given Carr-Bramble/Taylor-Boumsong-Babayaro Solano/Dyer-Parker/Bowyer-Emre-Luque Shearer-Owen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay 8 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay 8 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] going on current form since the champions league turned everton down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womblemaster 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 yes the other teams have bettr teams now. look at spurs and bolton now. The teams they have now are the best they have had for years IMO. Certainly chelsea are at an all time high. Even liverpool have a better team than during the 90s. Not sure about arsenal or manu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieshandy 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 If you look at other clubs squads and compare ours then we should be capable of top six or seven, depending on injuries - the back up in some positions in still woeful. And it all depends on how the master tactician plays them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sima Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A few injuries to key players and we are screwed. We could rally have done with hanging onto the likes of Ambrose & Hughes. But when Shearer is rested we look pretty strong. Although I think a 4-4-2 will be more likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. 26147[/snapback] And what? Other teams have improved, so has Newcastle. And we are talking about a period of four years, not several decades. Signing the likes of Luque and Michael Owen and then say that teams like Bolton have become better is utter nonsense in my opinion. The ambition has to be challenging for a CL place . And that's what even Souness himself said yesterday. By this standard has he to be judged now, starting at the game against Fulham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chip2388 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A few injuries to key players and we are screwed. We could rally have done with hanging onto the likes of Ambrose & Hughes. But when Shearer is rested we look pretty strong. Although I think a 4-4-2 will be more likely. 26094[/snapback] Thats one way of doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worksop_magpie 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 A few injuries to key players and we are screwed. We could rally have done with hanging onto the likes of Ambrose & Hughes. But when Shearer is rested we look pretty strong. Although I think a 4-4-2 will be more likely. 26094[/snapback] Thats one way of doing it 26163[/snapback] Good use of football manager! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheInspiration 1 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. 26147[/snapback] And what? Other teams have improved, so has Newcastle. And we are talking about a period of four years, not several decades. Signing the likes of Luque and Michael Owen and then say that teams like Bolton have become better is utter nonsense in my opinion. The ambition has to be challenging for a CL place . And that's what even Souness himself said yesterday. By this standard has he to be judged now, starting at the game against Fulham. 26154[/snapback] Hey I wasn't really saying that to argue against your point (sorry, it did look like it), just saying now the top teams will always be improving as they buy new players, and won't be compared to teams of years ago. But yeah this is only a period of 4 years so I stand mistaken. However it's not just the quality of the players that make the difference, it's greatly down to the morale and skills of the management among other things, which could eb partly why Liverpool finsihed below Everton. If the players are not giving 100% or near that (Butt, Robert etc.) or having fights on the pitch it's no surprise the team's results won't be as good. Now with a some world-class players, the most likely excuse for bad results is the manager, and with just a couple of bad results, he'll be looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17697 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. 26147[/snapback] And what? Other teams have improved, so has Newcastle. And we are talking about a period of four years, not several decades. Signing the likes of Luque and Michael Owen and then say that teams like Bolton have become better is utter nonsense in my opinion. The ambition has to be challenging for a CL place . And that's what even Souness himself said yesterday. By this standard has he to be judged now, starting at the game against Fulham. 26154[/snapback] Hey I wasn't really saying that to argue against your point (sorry, it did look like it), just saying now the top teams will always be improving as they buy new players, and won't be compared to teams of years ago. But yeah this is only a period of 4 years so I stand mistaken. However it's not just the quality of the players that make the difference, it's greatly down to the morale and skills of the management among other things, which could eb partly why Liverpool finsihed below Everton. If the players are not giving 100% or near that (Butt, Robert etc.) or having fights on the pitch it's no surprise the team's results won't be as good. Now with a some world-class players, the most likely excuse for bad results is the manager, and with just a couple of bad results, he'll be looking for work. 26173[/snapback] I think that's what Isegrim was saying - Souness now has no excuses. How many other managers have been backed to the tune of 45 million in less than a year? This is the difference between us and teams like Bolton - or even Liverpool for that matter. I am over the moon with these signings, though I can't help think it is wasted on Souness. Our next investment must be a good manager - look at the players we have to tempt him with! But its a win win situation really. If we start picking up results (and by this I mean become at least a top 5 team), then that's great. But if we don't, Souness will get sacked and someone else will get us up there, I am confident of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonraider 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. 26147[/snapback] And what? Other teams have improved, so has Newcastle. And we are talking about a period of four years, not several decades. Signing the likes of Luque and Michael Owen and then say that teams like Bolton have become better is utter nonsense in my opinion. The ambition has to be challenging for a CL place . And that's what even Souness himself said yesterday. By this standard has he to be judged now, starting at the game against Fulham. 26154[/snapback] Hey I wasn't really saying that to argue against your point (sorry, it did look like it), just saying now the top teams will always be improving as they buy new players, and won't be compared to teams of years ago. But yeah this is only a period of 4 years so I stand mistaken. However it's not just the quality of the players that make the difference, it's greatly down to the morale and skills of the management among other things, which could eb partly why Liverpool finsihed below Everton. If the players are not giving 100% or near that (Butt, Robert etc.) or having fights on the pitch it's no surprise the team's results won't be as good. Now with a some world-class players, the most likely excuse for bad results is the manager, and with just a couple of bad results, he'll be looking for work. 26173[/snapback] I think that's what Isegrim was saying - Souness now has no excuses. How many other managers have been backed to the tune of 45 million in less than a year? This is the difference between us and teams like Bolton - or even Liverpool for that matter. I am over the moon with these signings, though I can't help think it is wasted on Souness. Our next investment must be a good manager - look at the players we have to tempt him with! But its a win win situation really. If we start picking up results (and by this I mean become at least a top 5 team), then that's great. But if we don't, Souness will get sacked and someone else will get us up there, I am confident of that. 26243[/snapback] couldnt put that better myself. He's an average manager im afraid, i didnt want him here and i still think he's not the man for the job and never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 but would you not also say the other teams we are fighting against also have better teams ? 26031[/snapback] That would be a very lame excuse. 26037[/snapback] It's true though. Tbh, you wouldn't compare the Liverpool sides in the 70's and 80's to Chelsea now... or would you? This knowing the defence of the opponents was much worse, with no foreigners playing. 26147[/snapback] And what? Other teams have improved, so has Newcastle. And we are talking about a period of four years, not several decades. Signing the likes of Luque and Michael Owen and then say that teams like Bolton have become better is utter nonsense in my opinion. The ambition has to be challenging for a CL place . And that's what even Souness himself said yesterday. By this standard has he to be judged now, starting at the game against Fulham. 26154[/snapback] Hey I wasn't really saying that to argue against your point (sorry, it did look like it), just saying now the top teams will always be improving as they buy new players, and won't be compared to teams of years ago. But yeah this is only a period of 4 years so I stand mistaken. However it's not just the quality of the players that make the difference, it's greatly down to the morale and skills of the management among other things, which could eb partly why Liverpool finsihed below Everton. If the players are not giving 100% or near that (Butt, Robert etc.) or having fights on the pitch it's no surprise the team's results won't be as good. Now with a some world-class players, the most likely excuse for bad results is the manager, and with just a couple of bad results, he'll be looking for work. 26173[/snapback] I think that's what Isegrim was saying - Souness now has no excuses. How many other managers have been backed to the tune of 45 million in less than a year? This is the difference between us and teams like Bolton - or even Liverpool for that matter. I am over the moon with these signings, though I can't help think it is wasted on Souness. Our next investment must be a good manager - look at the players we have to tempt him with! But its a win win situation really. If we start picking up results (and by this I mean become at least a top 5 team), then that's great. But if we don't, Souness will get sacked and someone else will get us up there, I am confident of that. 26243[/snapback] couldnt put that better myself. He's an average manager im afraid, i didnt want him here and i still think he's not the man for the job and never will be. 26245[/snapback] Can you read my mind T/R? I was just going to hi-light the same bit and say virtually the same thing! If Souness proves to be the wrong manager, as a lot of us suspect but only time will tell, then what manager in their right mind could turn down the opportunity of managing such a team?? Other than bottlers like Allerdyce, that is. Can you read my mind? *thinks* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I agree that now, he is probably here to stay unless things go badly. While I still think he isn't good enough, he now has a team [assembled at great cost remember] that we should expect to match the europe spot we were in before he came, that is why he got the job and if he doesn;t do it now there can be absolutely no excuses and he will be binned. A league place, or no cup wins and outside of a european spot is now out of the question bearing in mind the club have now accumulated a big transfer deficit. Allowing such expenditure with no reward will ensure we go down the same road as Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 I love how you guys always manage to find something to cry about. It's like an old armchair or pork pies. Always there to let you know all is well in the world! BTW if we don't beat Fulham at least 3000-nil, I think we should give Souness a Chinese burn. On his cock. *resumes day* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3594 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] Aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 (edited) Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] he hasn't identified anything. The biggest turd is still at the club with a pay rise. And if his changes, made at huge expense and possibly putting the club in a debt don't match where we were at least before he came then he has failed and someone else will have to come in and get more from the same players unless he sells first. EDIT. Shearer also was instrumental in identifying and persuading in persuading Parker, Owen and Solano to come to the club. His first signings as Newcastle manager in waiting. And I for one, because of this, feel a lot easier with this thought, even though if he directly succeeds Souness, it'll cost me ten quid. Edited September 1, 2005 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] You've got my vote! Interesting how things are pointing to Shearer though...... Not sure what I think about that. Vialli and Gullit seemed to hit the ground running at Chelsea, but John Barnes was terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted September 1, 2005 Author Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] I do give Souness credit for it. Though, I do think that 80% of the users of this forum would have been able to identify Owen, Parker, Emre, Luque and Solano as great improvements to the squad. Sorry, but with the big sums splashed out Souness also bought himself big expectations. Over the next 5-6 "easy" games he has to start collecting points, because with this team he can't settle with a transition season anymore. No, and 3000-nil won't be enough if the team keeps on playing hoof-the-ball-style of football... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17697 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] I'm not going to give Souness that much credit yet tbh. It doesn't take a genius to work out that Michael Owen is talented, we were all aware of how good Parker was. Souness didn't provide the money, and from what I can tell, it was Shearer that got most the players here. Our results have still been f*****g terrible over the last year - that is what Souness is employed for - to get results. Now he has his team, he has no excuses. If the results don't come (at least to get us back to where we were) then he has to go, simple as that. There is absolutely nothing unfair about it either, I really don't see how anyone can say he has been badly treated. I look forward with interest to Fulham (which unfortunately I'm going to miss). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 Come on lets give credit where its due. Souness has done really well in identifying the players to get rid of and bring in, and working with Fatty and Big Al to get them to St James's. The least he deserves is our full support till the end of the season to try and make it work. 26252[/snapback] I'm not going to give Souness that much credit yet tbh. It doesn't take a genius to work out that Michael Owen is talented, we were all aware of how good Parker was. Souness didn't provide the money, and from what I can tell, it was Shearer that got most the players here. Our results have still been f*****g terrible over the last year - that is what Souness is employed for - to get results. Now he has his team, he has no excuses. If the results don't come (at least to get us back to where we were) then he has to go, simple as that. There is absolutely nothing unfair about it either, I really don't see how anyone can say he has been badly treated. I look forward with interest to Fulham (which unfortunately I'm going to miss). 26262[/snapback] What about his off the pitch tactics though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Womblemaster 0 Posted September 1, 2005 Share Posted September 1, 2005 i doubt we will batter fulham. they will come here and defend there asses off, and atmo our best midfielders are injured. think we will squeak a win, but dont expect a slaughter! imo we wont be at our attacking best till emre is back. (rember solano is banned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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