José Enrique

[Ayatollah Hermione 12767]

It's like CT exists on a parallel Universe or something. Bizarre thread this, even by his standards. Are you contrary for the sake of it CT or do you really believe what you type?

 

Whats contrary about having a discussion about whether a player has improved or not.

 

Awaits answer.......

 

The fact you're asking if one of our widely acknowledged best players has improved. That sentence should literally answer that question for good.

 

Not at all. My opinion is that his attacking side has gone back, its very simple.

 

Yet you can't recall this attacking side specifically. Except in the Championship where he was so above and beyond the rest of the division, he could afford to go forward a bit more. It's only natural that he wouldn't be so gung-ho in the PL because the chances of getting caught out and punished are much higher.

 

 

Honestly cant believe Im reading this tbh In his 60 odd prem games before relegation I would have though that most people would recall his wing play with Jonas and how they overlapped each other down the left. Truly astonished.

 

You're talking total shit. If you remember it that much, give some examples because I literally can't. Gutierrez had that game at Man United but all the attacking play down the left in that one came from solo runs. Neither of them got any goals in that season as well and Bassong played quite a few games at LB that season as well so these great overlapping runs must have come at the end of the season where nobody in the squad had any confidence, we were playing shit football and getting beat all the time. So, please, point some out.

[Guest alex]

Specific examples could be held up to scrutiny though

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Attention sought - success.

I should know better by now tbh.

I don't know why anyone would seek attention by making themselves look stupid, unless it's direct deprication for a bit carry on. It shouldn't be about attention anyway it's to share good views on NUFC, and debate points, and CT could argue that's what he's doing. However a post like the OP is like debating that Adolf Hitler was a good thing for the Jewish world.

 

 

which bit man

All of it the full thing. The thing that makes me laugh is you're basing it one game where he was by no means our worst player, in a game the whole team produced one of THE WORST first half performances I can ever remember they were all dire, Tiote looked lost even in the first half. I'm too busy to discuss this pish at the minute, but the whole post is pathetic.

 

I disagree with Phil too Jose has worked well on the left the reason it's not as potent is because Jonas' form has dipped playing against better right backs, it's not Jose's main function to attack although when he does, he does it well.

 

Fair enough your busy. I'll look forward to your response when your free but Im afraid retorts like "the whole post", dont do it and just make it look like you really have no argument.

 

You cant mean the bit where I say he's done really well?

or

The bit where I say he can sprint and guard the ball?

or

Where I say that his attacking game is suffering because of Jonas?

 

I'll even post the OP so you need only bold the "horrific" bits.

 

 

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far.

 

Dont bottle it now, just bold it.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Btw, nothing like some cold hard facts in a debate like this. On Saturday, Danny Simpson made 7 tackles. He won 3 and lost 4. Enrique made 9 tackles. He won 6 and lost 3. Source: Guardian chalkboards.

 

Its not just tackles though, the same chalkboard shows simpson made 5 blocks and interceptions compared to Enriques 1.

 

You may remember one of them was when Walcott was virtually clean through and about to shoot.

I never made the argument being a full-back was all about tackling though, you made the specific (inaccurate) point about it.

 

Neither did I

[Holden McGroin 4851]

Didn't he put the cross in for the Best goal at the weekend?

[Guest alex]

Btw, nothing like some cold hard facts in a debate like this. On Saturday, Danny Simpson made 7 tackles. He won 3 and lost 4. Enrique made 9 tackles. He won 6 and lost 3. Source: Guardian chalkboards.

 

Its not just tackles though, the same chalkboard shows simpson made 5 blocks and interceptions compared to Enriques 1.

 

You may remember one of them was when Walcott was virtually clean through and about to shoot.

I never made the argument being a full-back was all about tackling though, you made the specific (inaccurate) point about it.

 

Neither did I

I know you didn't. But my quoting of the stat was in response to:

"Look at the Arsenal second half, Simpson was all over the box making last minute sliding tackles."

He made one tackle in the box in the 2nd half (unsuccessful) and one block. So your comment doesn't hold up to scrutiny, does it?

[Guest Marshall-Baines]

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

He's finding it tougher? Where is the evidence of that? He's thrived this season, he's up against better quality players in the Premiership so obviously it's a bigger challenge and he's not as able to show as much attacking intent as he did last season. Messi could come from the CCC still be brilliant and find it tougher in the Premiership.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

The rest of his game is superb, nothing is mentioned of his superb range of passing, short range and long range. I don't think his game has needed to grow at all to get in the Spain team (world champions in case you were unaware).

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

The last left back I saw tackling like Joey Barton was Stuart Pearce, a brilliant player, but another one who received more cards than Robbie Williams does on Valentines Day. Non-sensical point to be honest. I've never seen Ashley Cole tackle like Barton neither.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

So how exactly is this a sign of him finding it tougher as a result of his deficiencies? Again a poorly thought out paragraph.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far

 

Read my last sentence again, and apply it here too.

 

Nothing really to add. DEADMAN or Kevin could punch holes in your points tbh.

[shackbleep 0]

CT you're like the kid at school who constantly had the shit kicked out of him because he tried to be a clever shite and just ended up looking like a tit.

 

Words fail me but we should know better of you by now.

 

 

And your like one of those bullies hangers on who was terrified to have his own fight but when there was 20 onto 1 you would rush in from behind the crowd, get a kick in and run away.

 

Another one tut tutting but failing to point out which bit of the op makes "words fail you"

 

Seriously, you're not even worth the bother. I have no doubt that if you spent long enough alone you'd be arguing with yourself.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

All right CT, here's how I see it.

 

You're suggesting Jose is on the wane because he's not dominating the Premier League right wingers as he did the Championship Right wingers?

 

I want to be clear before I form an answer.

 

 

Good man. Heres the OP again.

 

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far.

 

So basically Im saying that IMO it looks as though this season he's finding it tougher, particularly attacking down the wing compared to how he used to.

 

I also question whether his overall game has improved?

 

I precede these remarks by saying "I know he'd done really well" and that his sprinting, guarding and bringing the ball out of defence, are not in question.

 

Cant really see anything "horrific" in this question / discussion.

 

You might think hi tackling has improved or that his positional play has improved or that his passing has improved. You might disagree and think he is attacking better than he ever has for us. These would all be valid points to discuss.

 

Im quite taken aback by the way this thread has gone I might have to have 4 Kronnenburgs tonight instead of the usual 3.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

pity you can still see quoted posts, he's not got a clue at all

 

on the upside i won't see his "well done mike" bit at the end of the season if we don't get relegated

 

Its simple....stay out the thread you bore

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Btw, nothing like some cold hard facts in a debate like this. On Saturday, Danny Simpson made 7 tackles. He won 3 and lost 4. Enrique made 9 tackles. He won 6 and lost 3. Source: Guardian chalkboards.

 

Its not just tackles though, the same chalkboard shows simpson made 5 blocks and interceptions compared to Enriques 1.

 

You may remember one of them was when Walcott was virtually clean through and about to shoot.

I never made the argument being a full-back was all about tackling though, you made the specific (inaccurate) point about it.

 

Neither did I

I know you didn't.

 

No probs, apology accepted.

[Guest alex]

CT studiously ignoring the bits where I've shown he was completely inaccurate I see.

[The Fish 8989]

All right CT, here's how I see it.

 

You're suggesting Jose is on the wane because he's not dominating the Premier League right wingers as he did the Championship Right wingers?

 

I want to be clear before I form an answer.

 

 

Good man. Heres the OP again.

 

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far.

 

So basically Im saying that IMO it looks as though this season he's finding it tougher, particularly attacking down the wing compared to how he used to.

 

I also question whether his overall game has improved?

 

I precede these remarks by saying "I know he'd done really well" and that his sprinting, guarding and bringing the ball out of defence, are not in question.

 

Cant really see anything "horrific" in this question / discussion.

 

You might think hi tackling has improved or that his positional play has improved or that his passing has improved. You might disagree and think he is attacking better than he ever has for us. These would all be valid points to discuss.

 

Im quite taken aback by the way this thread has gone I might have to have 4 Kronnenburgs tonight instead of the usual 3.

Okay, I'll give this a go.

 

Enrique is not on the wain (sic) he's still one of the best performers in the side, more over he's probably one of the best left backs in the country (I'd agree with Stevie's assessment there), He's not hamstrung because of Jonas' perceived lack of ability and he is still improving.

 

The reason he's not barrelling down the wing in this league is, quite obviously, it's a much tougher league and comparatively we've gone from being considerably superior in ability and skill to being one of the more average sides. Jonas' losing of the ball aside the whole team is under greater pressure defensively, hence his forward play is obviously going to be curtailed. Both tactically and by the mere fact we don't have the comfort of letting our fullbacks bomb on as much this season.

 

His positional play and range of passing have improved, this is clear as day to see.

 

My questions to you are as follows;

 

Why do you you think he is "on the wain(sic)"?

What were you expecting from the team, when competing in a far superior league?

Will your next thread in three weeks time be about how Cheik Tioté isn't the goal scoring threat he once was?

 

there? can we put this thread out to pasture now?

[Guest Marshall-Baines]

Breathtakingly embarrassing thread to be honest. Imagine a thread on a Liverpool board like this disecting aspects of Gerrard's play based on completely poundationless pish. We look like mugs on this thread, even by responding imo.

[Guest alex]

CT, are you saying that in any way, shape or form:

1) He's been worse lately than he was earlier in the season?

2) He's been worse than he was last season?

3) He's been worse than he was in the previous seasons in the Premier League?

Or any combination of the above?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

He's finding it tougher? Where is the evidence of that? He's thrived this season, he's up against better quality players in the Premiership so obviously it's a bigger challenge and he's not as able to show as much attacking intent as he did last season. Messi could come from the CCC still be brilliant and find it tougher in the Premiership.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

The rest of his game is superb, nothing is mentioned of his superb range of passing, short range and long range. I don't think his game has needed to grow at all to get in the Spain team (world champions in case you were unaware).

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

The last left back I saw tackling like Joey Barton was Stuart Pearce, a brilliant player, but another one who received more cards than Robbie Williams does on Valentines Day. Non-sensical point to be honest. I've never seen Ashley Cole tackle like Barton neither.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

So how exactly is this a sign of him finding it tougher as a result of his deficiencies? Again a poorly thought out paragraph.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far

 

Read my last sentence again, and apply it here too.

 

Nothing really to add. DEADMAN or Kevin could punch holes in your points tbh.

 

So basically you agree he's finding it tougher, you dont think he needs to improve any of his game.

 

What has Spains world cup winning team got to do with Enrique? Has he even played for the full team yet? I could also point out Torres form using the same argument, but Im sure Deadman or Kevin could do that.

 

Your excuse for his lack of sliding tackling is all over the place.

 

Finally, I didnt say that his lack of attacking was down to "his deficiencies", I said it was probably due to Jonas's form. A point I think you have already agreed with earlier in the thread.

 

Lots of holes and inaccuracies, but dont worry I wont call them horrific.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

CT you're like the kid at school who constantly had the shit kicked out of him because he tried to be a clever shite and just ended up looking like a tit.

 

Words fail me but we should know better of you by now.

 

 

And your like one of those bullies hangers on who was terrified to have his own fight but when there was 20 onto 1 you would rush in from behind the crowd, get a kick in and run away.

 

Another one tut tutting but failing to point out which bit of the op makes "words fail you"

 

Seriously, you're not even worth the bother. I have no doubt that if you spent long enough alone you'd be arguing with yourself.

 

Thought so

[Howay 12452]

Seriously questioning Enrique's ability is laughable.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Barton7

[Guest Marshall-Baines]

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

He's finding it tougher? Where is the evidence of that? He's thrived this season, he's up against better quality players in the Premiership so obviously it's a bigger challenge and he's not as able to show as much attacking intent as he did last season. Messi could come from the CCC still be brilliant and find it tougher in the Premiership.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

The rest of his game is superb, nothing is mentioned of his superb range of passing, short range and long range. I don't think his game has needed to grow at all to get in the Spain team (world champions in case you were unaware).

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

The last left back I saw tackling like Joey Barton was Stuart Pearce, a brilliant player, but another one who received more cards than Robbie Williams does on Valentines Day. Non-sensical point to be honest. I've never seen Ashley Cole tackle like Barton neither.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

So how exactly is this a sign of him finding it tougher as a result of his deficiencies? Again a poorly thought out paragraph.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far

 

Read my last sentence again, and apply it here too.

 

Nothing really to add. DEADMAN or Kevin could punch holes in your points tbh.

 

So basically you agree he's finding it tougher, you dont think he needs to improve any of his game.

 

What has Spains world cup winning team got to do with Enrique? Has he even played for the full team yet? I could also point out Torres form using the same argument, but Im sure Deadman or Kevin could do that.

 

Your excuse for his lack of sliding tackling is all over the place.

 

Finally, I didnt say that his lack of attacking was down to "his deficiencies", I said it was probably due to Jonas's form. A point I think you have already agreed with earlier in the thread.

 

Lots of holes and inaccuracies, but dont worry I wont call them horrific.

So a pre-requisite of a left back is to dive with sliding tackles every five minutes. Modern footballers are intelligent enough to know that if you commit yourself and it goes wrong you're fucked, you're beaten and you run the risk of giving away free kicks and being booked every time you do it. He stays on his feet, asks questions of the winger, which is why he is rarely beaten. I don't think you've ever played the game have you, or if you have you're reading the Mick Wadsworth guide to defensive play.

[Howay 12452]

So a pre-requisite of a left back is to dive with sliding tackles every five minutes. Modern footballers are intelligent enough to know that if you commit yourself and it goes wrong you're fucked, you're beaten and you run the risk of giving away free kicks and being booked every time you do it. He stays on his feet, asks questions of the winger, which is why he is rarely beaten. I don't think you've ever played the game have you, or if you have you're reading the Mick Wadsworth guide to defensive play.

I was thinking this as well, when have you ever seen a top defender questioned for not constantly going to ground

[NobbySol 0]

Seriously questioning Enrique's ability is laughable.

 

Might aswell question the size of Saha's penis while you're at it!

[Guest alex]

Surely comparing Championship from with PL form is comparing apples and oranges. Of course, it's unclear whether that is what CT is doing because he hasn't answered my question. In any case Enrique looks better in the Premier League this time round. I don't think he was shite by any means last time he played in the Premier League but I think 99% would agree he looks better in just about every department this time. Surely that represents improvement. Although some will no doubt continue to argue that day is night.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

All right CT, here's how I see it.

 

You're suggesting Jose is on the wane because he's not dominating the Premier League right wingers as he did the Championship Right wingers?

 

I want to be clear before I form an answer.

 

 

Good man. Heres the OP again.

 

I know he's done really well for us, but this season I think he's finding it tougher and tougher.

 

We all know he can sprint and then guard the ball while he turns and comes out of defence, but the rest of his game doesnt really seem to have grown.

 

Very rarely do you see him going in with a sliding tackle a la Barton.

 

His attacking game has nearly disappeared, however I lay the blame for that with the poor form of Jonas, more than just Enriques fault. Think he's almost scared to make the runs down to the bye line as he knows that more often than not, Jonas will lose possession.

 

I appreciate he gets lots of love for his contributions to facebook, but anyone got an objective view on how they think he's developed so far.

 

So basically Im saying that IMO it looks as though this season he's finding it tougher, particularly attacking down the wing compared to how he used to.

 

I also question whether his overall game has improved?

 

I precede these remarks by saying "I know he'd done really well" and that his sprinting, guarding and bringing the ball out of defence, are not in question.

 

Cant really see anything "horrific" in this question / discussion.

 

You might think hi tackling has improved or that his positional play has improved or that his passing has improved. You might disagree and think he is attacking better than he ever has for us. These would all be valid points to discuss.

 

Im quite taken aback by the way this thread has gone I might have to have 4 Kronnenburgs tonight instead of the usual 3.

Okay, I'll give this a go.

 

Enrique is not on the wain (sic) he's still one of the best performers in the side, more over he's probably one of the best left backs in the country (I'd agree with Stevie's assessment there),

 

Nobody disputed that

 

He's not hamstrung because of Jonas' perceived lack of ability and he is still improving.

 

A few in this thread, including Stevie, think he may be.

 

The reason he's not barrelling down the wing in this league is, quite obviously, it's a much tougher league and comparatively we've gone from being considerably superior in ability and skill to being one of the more average sides. Jonas' losing of the ball aside the whole team is under greater pressure defensively, hence his forward play is obviously going to be curtailed. Both tactically and by the mere fact we don't have the comfort of letting our fullbacks bomb on as much this season.

 

He used to barrel down the league during his previous sixty or so games in the prem. We are playing very attacking football and Simpson is barrelling on down the right.

 

His positional play and range of passing have improved, this is clear as day to see.

 

They were already good, cant say Ive noticed a dramatic improvement. Defending wise Enrique relies a lot on his pace and strength to guard the ball. When that doesnt work I can say I've seen great evidence of him resorting to more traditional methods. EGhis positional play and pace against Duff didnt help.

 

My questions to you are as follows;

 

Why do you you think he is "on the wain(sic)"?

 

Jonas

 

What were you expecting from the team, when competing in a far superior league?

 

Nowhere near the excellent attacking football we've played.

 

 

[nortoon 0]

Ive always wondered if Christmas Tree might just be someone Mike Ashley hired to say good things about him on the internet. Could be he actually is Mike Ashley or Derek Lambias, as Keegan said they are both clueless about football.

 

I suppose Enrique didnt sign a contract extension For half his current wage and they are preparing to sell him in the summer, let the Propaganda begin!

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Breathtakingly embarrassing thread to be honest. Imagine a thread on a Liverpool board like this disecting aspects of Gerrard's play based on completely poundationless pish. We look like mugs on this thread, even by responding imo.

 

Especially when claiming Enriques in the Spanish world cup winning team