Allardyce defends Dyer stance

[gram 0]

This "brought it on himself" is utter drivel and nonsense imho. It's a lame excuse for people who act themselves like utter spoilt brats. I guess most of those who hold the moral high ground concerning the behaviour of modern football players would act in exactly the same way if given the same chances and wages. I agree with gram, it looks like a large extent of jealousy.

 

Utter rubbish.

 

There's plenty of examples of players covered in riches that behave in a decent and controlled way. Dyer is just not one of them.

 

If he were he wouldn't be getting booed or eggs thrown at his house for wanting to be with his kids (if that really is the reason), but he's not and he long term behaviour HAS brought it on himself and he has no one else to blame for the situation but himself.

 

 

 

 

I do rather enjoy your moronic pseudo-psychobabble that Dyer's behaviour is fine because I'm apparently "jealous" though (am I "jealous" of Bellamy too? And why exactly am I not "jealous" of Shearer or Given or the other myriad players that act properly?). That's clearly one for the textbooks.

I thought Isegrim was talking about the morons who would condone the nonsense and spout shite? Too many are like that and comment on his 'bling' and wage at every opportunity. It does smack of jealousy imho. Or just people jumping on the binwagon cos they have no mind of their own. Of course its only a few who would do that. Not all. Or at least thats what you would hope. I'm sure youre not like that.

The track record of Dyer is significantly better than Bellamy by the way off the field. That has been commented on earlier on the board so I wont repeat it. Both played an important part in our relative success for 3 years. Both got injured a lot. Neither are role models.

I can't see what he has done recently that should bring about the nonsense - other than younguns acting like arseholes. He was the best player on the pitch when he came on against Juve.

Like I say, if he goes then I hope we bring in someone with pace, cos without him we have very very little of that. From a selfish NUFC supporting reason I hope he stays, it gives the squad something it doesnt have without him. Not fussed about the lad himself.

[Isegrim 8870]

This "brought it on himself" is utter drivel and nonsense imho. It's a lame excuse for people who act themselves like utter spoilt brats. I guess most of those who hold the moral high ground concerning the behaviour of modern football players would act in exactly the same way if given the same chances and wages. I agree with gram, it looks like a large extent of jealousy.

 

Utter rubbish.

 

There's plenty of examples of players covered in riches that behave in a decent and controlled way. Dyer is just not one of them.

 

If he were he wouldn't be getting booed or eggs thrown at his house for wanting to be with his kids (if that really is the reason), but he's not and he long term behaviour HAS brought it on himself and he has no one else to blame for the situation but himself.

 

 

 

 

I do rather enjoy your moronic pseudo-psychobabble that Dyer's behaviour is fine because I'm apparently "jealous" though (am I "jealous" of Bellamy too? And why exactly am I not "jealous" of Shearer or Given or the other myriad players that act properly?). That's clearly one for the textbooks.

I'd like all players to be well behaved and being model professionals. But the reality is that a lot aren't. You have the fair share of self-obsessed dickheads like Dyer (where ever did I say it's fine?). Footballers are no exemption from the rest of the society. There are enough self-obsessed morons on internet forums, too.

 

I just don't know how most of it relates to football and warrants the kind of hatred that leads to booing and egg throwing. Jealousy is just an attempt of explanation. Another would be for the persons just being spoilt, self-obsessed and moronic themselves.

 

I don't care what footballers do in their private life and well behaved or not well behaved they are. All that matters is what a player does on the pitch. Therefore apart from throwing the tantrum before and during the Middlesbrough match most of the incidents concerning Dyer are rather irrelevant imho. And this was more than three years ago and I think you have to be very narrow-minded to still bear a grudge because of this.

 

Dyer's dubious lifestyle might explain why the player never made enough out of his talent because of injuries/lack of form (and therefore he should have been sold long ago, but for no other reason). But it doesn't deserve the level of hatred. And imho whoever approves this and personal actions against a player and his belonging is an utter moron himself.

[Dr Gloom 19775]

Does anyone know why we increased the asking price by 2 million?

 

I heard a rumour from someone who works at St James (I know I know...) but they reckon the reason was because he's played for us for 8 years he was entitled to a 2 million 'loyalty' bonus and Newcastle weren't prepared to pay that so they wanted West 'aaam to pay it and tacked on another two million when the deal stalled and the plug was pulled. Anyone know if theres any truth in this?

 

i'd like to know too. it would make our decision more understandable if that is the case.

[zico martin 84]

I was worried that if the hammers did get him he, along with bellamy and bowyer would be back to bite us on the arse. Dyer is undoubtedly a good player on his day and as west'am currently qualify as competition for a UEFA spot I'm pleased the sale didnt go ahead. As has been said it obviously shows we're not desperate for the money and if he is gonna leave lets get as much as we can for him!

[Guest alex]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

[Fop 1]

I'd like all players to be well behaved and being model professionals. But the reality is that a lot aren't.

 

And so we all should just accept that and what exactly?

 

Isegrim's new model society; it's all ok, don't worry just accept it.

 

 

You have the fair share of self-obsessed dickheads like Dyer (where ever did I say it's fine?).

 

Apparently it is NOT fine to say it is NOT fine, which therefore must me it IS fine, or at least (apparently) should be studiously ignored (and never criticized).

 

Footballers are no exemption from the rest of the society. There are enough self-obsessed morons on internet forums, too.

 

Oh yes there are morons on the internet alright.

 

I just don't know how most of it relates to football and warrants the kind of hatred that leads to booing and egg throwing. Jealousy is just an attempt of explanation. Another would be for the persons just being spoilt, self-obsessed and moronic themselves.

 

Ah so now I'm a moronic, spoilt self obsessed brat now because I think Dyer behaves like a buffoon and brings everything on him self with his behaviour, eh?

 

Dr Isegrim strikes again.

 

 

I don't care what footballers do in their private life and well behaved or not well behaved they are.

 

Clearly. However you and others like you don't rule the world (yet), so I can care if I wish.

 

All that matters is what a player does on the pitch.

Rubbish, if that were the case Robson wouldn't have got the stick he did for OFF field issues.

 

Therefore apart from throwing the tantrum before and during the Middlesbrough match most of the incidents concerning Dyer are rather irrelevant imho. And this was more than three years ago and I think you have to be very narrow-minded to still bear a grudge because of this.

 

Again looking as Dyer's Newcastle career as a whole it has been one let down and disgrace after another, made worse by endless promises not to again before he inevitably does.

 

Dyer's dubious lifestyle might explain why the player never made enough out of his talent because of injuries/lack of form (and therefore he should have been sold long ago, but for no other reason). But it doesn't deserve the level of hatred.

 

His lifestyle is up to him, but that doesn't mean that others therefore aren't allowed (as much as YOU clearly wouldn't like them to be) to disapprove of it (it free society after all - maybe your political views are different and go along with your psychobabble mass conformity issues).

 

 

And imho whoever approves this and personal actions against a player and his belonging is an utter moron himself.

 

Luckily for me I don't "approve" of it per se, but I do believe he's brought it entirely on himself (so does that mean your pathetic attempt to yet again back handedly call me a utter moron missed? oh no! ) and if he stays and actually lets his football make the headlines for once he'll have no further issues of the sort.

[gram 0]

Bit ott that like. Not entirely factual either.

[Fop 1]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

[Guest alex]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

[Fop 1]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

[Guest alex]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

I agree actually, if half the stories about him are true it will have had an impact on how injury-prone he is and also it won't aid his recovery when he is injured. He's had bad luck too and is naturally injury-prone as well though imo. Not unlike a certain former centre-half of ours.

[Fop 1]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

I agree actually, if half the stories about him are true it will have had an impact on how injury-prone he is and also it won't aid his recovery when he is injured. He's had bad luck too and is naturally injury-prone as well though imo. Not unlike a certain former centre-half of ours.

 

 

Yeah even if he'd been the model professional footballer I suspect he'd have been injured more than most (then again a lot of pace players are).

 

But barring Cricketers if you want to get to and stay at the top in most professional sports these days you've got to look after a lot of the little things.

 

I don't think it's a massive co-incidence that a lot of the footballers that lose it long before they should tend to have party type lifestyles and the ones that go on to 35+ playing well tend to have looked after themselves studiously for the majority of their career.

[Isegrim 8870]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

I agree actually, if half the stories about him are true it will have had an impact on how injury-prone he is and also it won't aid his recovery when he is injured. He's had bad luck too and is naturally injury-prone as well though imo. Not unlike a certain former centre-half of ours.

I agree with that, too (as already said above). I also agree that Dyer deserves to get criticised for it. I just don't agree with it justifying ott personal hatred under any circumstances (which I do find as moronic as Dyer's behaviour).

[Guest alex]

Remember Captain Lager? Injury-prone but he could drink his body weight in a session. Not just a drinker either, or so I heard. As you say, no coincidence. Plenty of other examples too.

[Guest alex]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

I agree actually, if half the stories about him are true it will have had an impact on how injury-prone he is and also it won't aid his recovery when he is injured. He's had bad luck too and is naturally injury-prone as well though imo. Not unlike a certain former centre-half of ours.

I agree with that, too (as already said above). I also agree that Dyer deserves to get criticised for it. I just don't agree with it justifying ott personal hatred under any circumstances (which I do find as moronic as Dyer's behaviour).

Little charva pricks with a confused sense of loyalty imo. That isn't my condoning their behaviour btw.

[Fop 1]

I don't think any of us know how we'd act in Dyer's shoes. And the hatred shown towards him by some is way OTT. I'm not his biggest fan or anything but he does give us something different and could be an asset for us. As he has been in the past.

 

 

It he just does what so many footballers do, and plays football, he'll have no problems.

 

But then that's been the case innumerable times before, and as always it's up to Dyer.

You can't blame his injuries on him, if that's what your saying.

 

No his injuries are just par for the course (although as I said I suspect his lifestyle has played a part in that - he's clearly injury prone and you can't have a burn the candle at both ends lifestyle and expect your body to take the demands of Premiership football IMO).

 

But if he cuts that out (and frankly someone as studiously scientific in his training as Big Sam isn't going to be happy about that sort of lifestyle either - he worries about when and what sort of meal to eat, that sort of small boost is more than wiped out by a party night etc.), stops with the silly promises and just plays decent football he'll not have a problem.

I agree actually, if half the stories about him are true it will have had an impact on how injury-prone he is and also it won't aid his recovery when he is injured. He's had bad luck too and is naturally injury-prone as well though imo. Not unlike a certain former centre-half of ours.

I agree with that, too (as already said above). I also agree that Dyer deserves to get criticised for it. I just don't agree with it justifying ott personal hatred under any circumstances (which I do find as moronic as Dyer's behaviour).

Little charva pricks with a confused sense of loyalty imo. That isn't my condoning their behaviour btw.

 

They absolutely are, but all I'm saying is if you bait the beast, don't be surprised if it bites you (the beast is just being itself).

[Park Life 70]

If he doesn't go this window we'll probably never get rid of him. Who bar the current buying fever resident at Wham would condider buying him for whatever the price is now. I'd have taken £5m and got his £60k wages off the books. In a business like manner without anything to do toward my feeling for he player. Ashley/Mort have fucked up here imo.

[Guest alex]

If he doesn't go this window we'll probably never get rid of him. Who bar the current buying fever resident at Wham would condider buying him for whatever the price is now. I'd have taken £5m and got his £60k wages off the books. In a business like manner without anything to do toward my feeling for he player. Ashley/Mort have fucked up here imo.

Plus, he wanted to go. As you say, we're stuck with him now. My feeling is (Oliver-stylee) that he may well still go before the window closes.

[Isegrim 8870]

If he doesn't go this window we'll probably never get rid of him. Who bar the current buying fever resident at Wham would condider buying him for whatever the price is now. I'd have taken £5m and got his £60k wages off the books. In a business like manner without anything to do toward my feeling for he player. Ashley/Mort have fucked up here imo.

 

I said something similar a couple of weeks when we were still very short in numbers. With getting rid of Dyer it is not just recouping the transfer fee, but also getting rid of his massive wages (regardless of which figure you do believe). You should normally be able to pay two decent players. If the money could be used to reinvest it in a decent right back and helping to finance a reliable creative midfielder then I would accept even less than 5m tbh.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Isegrim

[gram 0]

Remember Captain Lager? Injury-prone but he could drink his body weight in a session. Not just a drinker either, or so I heard. As you say, no coincidence. Plenty of other examples too.

That's a shite argument tbh

Where does this debate leave Michael Owen? Is he a crack whore?

[Park Life 70]

Remember Captain Lager? Injury-prone but he could drink his body weight in a session. Not just a drinker either, or so I heard. As you say, no coincidence. Plenty of other examples too.

That's a shite argument tbh

Where does this debate leave Michael Owen? Is he a crack whore?

 

Might be the only thing to get him running around a bit more.

[Guest alex]

Remember Captain Lager? Injury-prone but he could drink his body weight in a session. Not just a drinker either, or so I heard. As you say, no coincidence. Plenty of other examples too.

That's a shite argument tbh

Where does this debate leave Michael Owen? Is he a crack whore?

Fuck off man. Are you taking the piss? The point still stands re: his notorious drinking sessions anyway.

[gram 0]

Remember Captain Lager? Injury-prone but he could drink his body weight in a session. Not just a drinker either, or so I heard. As you say, no coincidence. Plenty of other examples too.

That's a shite argument tbh

Where does this debate leave Michael Owen? Is he a crack whore?

Fuck off man. Are you taking the piss? The point still stands re: his notorious drinking sessions anyway.

 

Taking the piss about the 'or so I heard' comment, yes. That sort of stuff belongs in the playground or with fishwives.

 

Of course players need to look after themselves. Players get injured, however, it's taken more then cutting back on the booze to sort out shin splints, a training pole in the eye and that hamstring injury.

 

I am pretty sure the specialists he has been to might have pinpointed that if it was the major cause of them? No?

 

The comment about Michael Owen simply points out that players will get injuries irrespective of their 'refuelling' habits. In KDs case its unlikely that it helped but its far fetched to say that a series of specialists, who couldnt sort it out, will all look at each other now and say 'its cos he's a pissheeded, diseased little waster who according to some bloke down the pub......'

 

Don't forget last year he had everything from Hepatitus to AIDs according to those 'in the know'

 

So to put it in context, no it doesnt help. Was it the major factor. Unlikely.

[Guest alex]

It was something I heard, I never suggested it was anything more than that. It was a bloke down the pub btw. Des Hamilton's cousin actually, but I'm not suggesting that makes it any more true than anyone else. It's just a little snippet of trivia. Anyway, no one suggested Dyer has gotten injured purely because of his lifestyle either. It's a theory that excessive drinking and other things can make injuries more likely and can mean it takes longer to recover from them though. This is especially thought to apply to muscular injuries which Dyer has been a victim of a lot in the past and he has also taken a long time to recover. And he's always out on the piss. Not the most far-fetched thing to suggest there's some correlation there imo.

And the comment didn't even refer to Dyer btw.

Edited August 8, 2007 by alex

[gram 0]

It was something I heard, I never suggested it was anything more than that. It was a bloke down the pub btw. Des Hamilton's cousin actually, but I'm not suggesting that makes it any more true than anyone else. It's just a little snippet of trivia. Anyway, no one suggested Dyer has gotten injured purely because of his lifestyle either. It's a theory that excessive drinking and other things can make injuries more likely and can mean it takes longer to recover from them though. This is especially thought to apply to muscular injuries which Dyer has been a victim of a lot in the past and he has also taken a long time to recover. And he's always out on the piss. Not the most far-fetched thing to suggest there's some corrolation there imo.

I wouldn't suggest it helps but looking at the issues he has had with it and (at the time) knowing a few people at Playford Road where he spent a lot of time working it seems far fetched to me. It may be a game here or there but certainly nowhere near the root cause. Thats all I'm saying. Never been fond of tittle-tattle tbh. Gets on me tits. No offence intended.

Edit: Appears I misread the comment. Point still stands though, we have heard nonsense of that soprt about Dyer from people.

Nb: If we can find better I'm happy for him to be on his way. Until then we're better off using him. At the minute he's the only one who can offer anything different (plus he's an awful lot better than people give him credit for).

Edited August 8, 2007 by gram