Speed camera rules change as quick as a flash

[The Fish 8947]

I think if the speed limit was reduced to 20 in built-up areas but at the same time raised to 85 on motorways it would be more realistic. You wouldn't get many complaints from sensible motorists.

 

80-85mph on motorways I very much doubt would raise the accident rate at all.

 

 

20mph zone also can be effective, but on these new estates that already have a mandatory 20mph limit it doesn't seem to make much difference (although it's much more sensible IMO to make certain places 20mph, like housing estates, without necessarily reducing EVERYTHING within a town to 20mph unless otherwise marked).

 

The people that did drive slowly when it was a 30mph limit (because of parked cars obscuring vision and kids being about and such) still do drive at the same speed (15-25mph depending on the conditions) and the morons (like luckyluke) still do 40mph through the place even though it's now a 20mph zone. And they still would with a camera there, they'd just break for the camera and speed up again.

any need to make it personal Fop?

 

you've called luke a moron at least three times with no obvious provocation to me.

[Fop 1]

any need to make it personal Fop?

 

you've called luke a moron at least three times with no obvious provocation to me.

 

I suggest you read his post again, if he wants to start throwing insults then he can't complain if a few get backhanded at him.

 

And he says he drove like a moron not me, I'm just using that point to make my own.

[The Fish 8947]

the way I read his post is that he thinks your points are stupid, yours reads like he is stupid.

 

also, he's not complaining.

[Fop 1]

the way I read his post is that he thinks your points are stupid, yours reads like he is stupid.

 

Driving ridiculously over the speed limit for the road and conditions (as he says he did) IS stupid (and isn't something that is broadly fixed by speed cameras either, although it may at a certain particular point).

 

But that doesn't mean that all speeding is inherently dangerous (it's just not that precise - all rape is clearly wrong, but their is no such black and white line with speed and road safety other than a very arbitrary and subjective one) or indeed that speed cameras (hidden or otherwise) are the best method of road safety enforcement or reducing road deaths.

 

 

 

As and example I ride motorbikes and I see plenty of bikers doing utterly stupid things (which in a % sense will result in an accident eventually, but probably 90% of these things are NOT directly related to their speed [they often do them within the speed limits] but rather to do with their judgement).

 

Same with cars, the moron doing 40+mph in a busy built up area, through showing off to their friends or just a measure of self deluded invincibility, is far more dangerous than some one creeping over the speed limit (but still to an illegal level) whilst full paying attention all everything around them.

 

also, he's not complaining.

 

No, you're right, for some even more strange reason you are.

Edited November 10, 2007 by Fop

[The Fish 8947]

I am because I didn't think it was necessary.

 

he is saying that he sped down a certain road and since the installation of road cameras he has stopped doing so, now if it works on this one road (a road I know well and have known it pre and post speed camera) why is it unreasonable to expect speed cameras on other roads having a similar effect.

 

Drivers shouldn't need wopping great big yellow things on the side of the road to keep their speed in check, they should do it themselves. If you're speeding, you're breaking the law. I know it's easy for us to make reasons and excuses why we were traveling at 35mph in a 30 zone, but at the end of the day we're in control of a couple of tons of metal and flammable liquid, we should really be focussed on the job at hand.

 

I don't think Speed cameras are the best course of action either, but complaining that they're just a way for the government to get more money from the public is, in my opinion, not thinking logically. They're taking money from people breaking the law, is it any different to parking fines? You can make excuses for that too...

 

If they were luring people into speeding with checkered flags and scantily clad traffic wardens then I'd understand your issue, but they're not... so I don't

[Fop 1]

I am because I didn't think it was necessary.

 

Again he's a big boy and I'm only back handing what he served.

 

he is saying that he sped down a certain road and since the installation of road cameras he has stopped doing so, now if it works on this one road (a road I know well and have known it pre and post speed camera) why is it unreasonable to expect speed cameras on other roads having a similar effect.

 

What he's saying is he was a morons and now there a camera he no longer indulges in said moronic behaviour. That doesn't mean he wasn't a moron or indeed isn't still one now (for all I know) on bits of roads without cameras.

 

Now I think people like that should have long BANS, but again the best way to CATCH people like that and get them off the road is not via speed cameras, but rather patrols.

 

 

Drivers shouldn't need wopping great big yellow things on the side of the road to keep their speed in check, they should do it themselves.

 

Indeed, but luckyluke proves that morons do exist, from there it is a question of what is the most effective way of dealing with THEM, without necessarily criminalising someone that creeps a couple of MPH over whatever speed limit.

 

 

If you're speeding, you're breaking the law. I know it's easy for us to make reasons and excuses why we were traveling at 35mph in a 30 zone, but at the end of the day we're in control of a couple of tons of metal and flammable liquid, we should really be focussed on the job at hand.

 

And indeed being focused on the job at hand may actually BE the reason you're very marginally over the speed limit.

 

 

I don't think Speed cameras are the best course of action either, but complaining that they're just a way for the government to get more money from the public is, in my opinion, not thinking logically.

 

There are 2 reasons for speed cameras:

 

1. they are easy.

 

2. they make a LOT more money than they cost.

 

 

 

I have some sympathy for 1. when they are clearly visible doing a direct job that needs to be done (outside a school or a a blind junction etc.).

 

But hidden cameras are all about 2. and nothing else, it doesn't matter how you cut it or try to twist it they are about RENVENUE not anything else (this was determined to BE the case by the Government report that recommended cameras be visible and brightly coloured only a few years ago)

 

 

 

They're taking money from people breaking the law, is it any different to parking fines? You can make excuses for that too...

 

I'd say the same issue occurs with parking fines tbh (although that tends not to be criminalised as such), there are places where is it needed and justified and places where it is largely just an revenue issue.

 

 

If they were luring people into speeding with checkered flags and scantily clad traffic wardens then I'd understand your issue, but they're not... so I don't

 

No they are discarding the safety issue and looking for revenue instead....... which I might have some sympathy for IF said revenue was pumped directly back into police patrols, but I guarantee that will be the last thing it's used to support.

 

There are better ways to increase road safety, there aren't better ways to increase revenue, that is the bottom line.

[Guest alex]

Oh Lordy.

[Fop 1]

Oh Lordy.

[Rob W 0]

Simple - if you are worried about speed cameras stay within the limits

 

they are LIMITS not TARGETS

 

It is possible to travel SLOWER than the LIMIT without your leg falling off

 

And the argument that you are "only a little over the limit" doesn't wash - try that excuse when you "only" borrow a few quid out of the till at work for example......................

[luckyluke 1]

As if I can be bothered to read all that.

 

All I'll say is this Fop - I've seen first hand what speeding does to people, and it is far from pretty. If hidden cameras make people more conscious of the speed they drive at, then I'm all for it.

 

EDIT: Well said Rob.

Edited November 11, 2007 by luckyluke

[Guest James_coDurham]

As if I can be bothered to read all that.

 

All I'll say is this Fop - I've seen first hand what speeding does to people, and it is far from pretty. If hidden cameras make people more conscious of the speed they drive at, then I'm all for it.

 

EDIT: Well said Rob.

 

How can they if they're hidden?

 

Speed doesn't kill people. On an empty motorway at night, it's perfectly safe to do 100mph. I agree with the point earlier.

 

What's more dangerous? A person doing 35 in a 30 zone, paying full attention. Or a persondoing 25, turning round to tell their kids off in the back as they're misbehaving?

[Guest alex]

Both are dangerous, for different reasons.

[Fop 1]

Simple - if you are worried about speed cameras stay within the limits

 

they are LIMITS not TARGETS

 

It is possible to travel SLOWER than the LIMIT without your leg falling off

 

And the argument that you are "only a little over the limit" doesn't wash - try that excuse when you "only" borrow a few quid out of the till at work for example......................

 

Stealing is stealing it's black and white.

 

Speed limits are not, it's not 100% safe to drive a car at 30mph (in fact it's very, very easy to do something that will kill someone whilst remaining WITHIN the speed limit) but suddenly an absolute danger to everyone around at 31mph.

 

It just doesn't work like that, you're simply comparing APPLES and ORANGES.

 

 

 

 

 

 

But even if you were comparing apples to apples, its still a question of:

 

1. do speed cameras make a bigger different to road safety than police traffic patrols? No, they don't, then make no enforcement of dangerous driving at all, purely arbitrary speed measurements.

 

2. does hiding speed cameras again make things safer or just make more money? Just the make more money, this was seen in the Government report just a few years ago which set out all the rules they have just removed again.

[Fop 1]

As if I can be bothered to read all that.

 

Not surprised since you can't be bothered to stick to the speed limit either, unless there's a speed camera making you.

 

 

All I'll say is this Fop - I've seen first hand what speeding does to people, and it is far from pretty. If hidden cameras make people more conscious of the speed they drive at, then I'm all for it.

 

You've more than likely actually seen with careless or dangerous driving does to people (speed being a factor that makes things worse, but often not a direct causing factor).

 

 

But if all you're worried about is utterly removing danger that case frankly you should be for 10mph limits across ALL towns and a maximum speed of 50mph on national speed limit A and B roads and motorways.

 

And clearly until such limits are imposed you yourself should set an example by never driving over 10mph in a 30 zone and never driving over 50mph on 60 roads or 70 motorway. Otherwise you're nothing but a hypocrite....... and some how I'm fairly sure that is EXACTLY what you are.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Fop

[Fop 1]

Both are dangerous, for different reasons.

 

And police patrols stop both (and many other things).

 

Speed cameras only stop one (and nothing else).

 

 

 

 

But again speed isn't inherently dangerous if the road conditions allow it (or we'd simply have a 10mph limit absolutely every where), careless and dangerous driving however is dangerous almost irrespective of speed.

 

Speed cameras have their place, but hidden cameras stuck where they are going to gain most cash has NOTHING at all to do with road safety, nothing at all.

[Matt 0]

There's a stretch of road up to the borders- may be the A696- where there is bend after bend then at long last a bit of straight road- complete with speed camera. So if you're stuck behind a slow moving vehicle- you can either try to tiptoe past on the opposite side of the road or overtake on a bend. That's nothing to do with safety- that's encouraging accidents. Sometimes it is safer to overtake quickly, that may be a bit over the limit and there needs to be space to do that. To create a stretch where people are stuck behind a crawler for a long time makes drivers frustrated and more prone to making mistakes.

 

So while I've nothing against the concept of speed cameras at times the positioning of them makes me wonder just what the intention is- or whether the planners have ever actually driven a car.

 

It's just a shame that there aren't cameras for more dangerous things like gassing on the phone or turning around and talking to the passenger face-to-face- both of which have resulted in cars nearly going into me on the M6.

 

I'd also like to know if the police to pull over people driving too slowly.

Edited November 11, 2007 by Matt

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I'd also like to know if the police to pull over people driving too slowly.

Driving too slowly on a motorway is an offence, but I don't think it is on other roads.

[Fop 1]

There's a stretch of road up to the borders- may be the A696- where there is bend after bend then at long last a bit of straight road- complete with speed camera. So if you're stuck behind a slow moving vehicle- you can either try to tiptoe past on the opposite side of the road or overtake on a bend. That's nothing to do with safety- that's encouraging accidents. Sometimes it is safer to overtake quickly, that may be a bit over the limit and there needs to be space to do that. To create a stretch where people are stuck behind a crawler for a long time makes drivers frustrated and more prone to making mistakes.

 

So while I've nothing against the concept of speed cameras at times the positioning of them makes me wonder just what the intention is- or whether the planners have ever actually driven a car.

 

It's just a shame that there aren't cameras for more dangerous things like gassing on the phone or turning around and talking to the passenger face-to-face- both of which have resulted in cars nearly going into me on the M6.

 

I'd also like to know if the police to pull over people driving too slowly.

 

Aye that's a perfect example of where a police car likely wouldn't bother you for straying a few miles over the limit, but a speed camera would, even if it is the safest of all the options to so.

 

 

 

I'd also like to know if the police to pull over people driving too slowly.

Driving too slowly on a motorway is an offence, but I don't think it is on other roads.

 

Yeah it's an iffy one though, unless it's clearly marked.

 

Driving much under 50mph on a 70mph motorway for example is more likely to result in a crash than someone driving at 80mph.

 

Anyone that wishes to experience this just needs to go along the A66 around Appleby Horse fair time, with horse drawn carts quite legally (but utterly insanely - especially given the back road route isn't much longer) crawling along a very busy dual carriageway with a 70mph limit. How more people aren't killed I've no idea.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I'd also like to know if the police to pull over people driving too slowly.

Driving too slowly on a motorway is an offence, but I don't think it is on other roads.

 

Yeah it's an iffy one though, unless it's clearly marked.

 

Driving much under 50mph on a 70mph motorway for example is more likely to result in a crash than someone driving at 80mph.

 

Anyone that wishes to experience this just needs to go along the A66 around Appleby Horse fair time, with horse drawn carts quite legally (but utterly insanely - especially given the back road route isn't much longer) crawling along a very busy dual carriageway with a 70mph limit. How more people aren't killed I've no idea.

Agreed, it's the closing speed that creates the danger.

[luckyluke 1]

Christ Fop, you're one condescending twat.

[Fop 1]

Christ Fop, you're one condescending twat.

 

And you're a self-righteous hypocrite that doesn't practice what he preaches. Different strokes I guess.

 

 

The thing is I'm correct in what I say about speed cameras, where as you're.... well I don't know what you're doing really other than trying to pick a fight (you're certainly NOT answering any of the points put to you).

Edited November 11, 2007 by Fop

[luckyluke 1]

Christ Fop, you're one condescending twat.

 

And you're a self-righteous hypocrite that doesn't practice what he preaches. Different strokes I guess.

 

 

The thing is I'm correct in what I say about speed cameras, where as you're.... well I don't know what you're doing really other than trying to pick a fight (you're certainly NOT answering any of the points put to you).

 

 

You keep saying I'm a hypocrite...I admitted to speeding occasionally on motorways (something that EVERYONE does) and being a bit of twat in my first year (four years ago by the way) to illiustrate an example of how speed cameras aren't just for revenue purposes.

 

All I have maintained is that speeding on city roads is dangerous, kills people and that if people don't know where speed cameras are all the time, then maybe they won't speed as much. I fail to see how these views make me a hypocrite.

 

I don't understand why you've got such a beef with the authorites re speeding cameras if you're whiter than white as you claim to be.

 

And I'm trying to pick a fight? You're the one throwing insults around and talking in your usual condescending manner.

[Fop 1]

Christ Fop, you're one condescending twat.

 

And you're a self-righteous hypocrite that doesn't practice what he preaches. Different strokes I guess.

 

 

The thing is I'm correct in what I say about speed cameras, where as you're.... well I don't know what you're doing really other than trying to pick a fight (you're certainly NOT answering any of the points put to you).

 

 

You keep saying I'm a hypocrite...I admitted to speeding occasionally on motorways (something that EVERYONE does) and being a bit of twat in my first year (four years ago by the way) to illiustrate an example of how speed cameras aren't just for revenue purposes.

 

Ah so it's motorways as well now eh?

 

As I said given your preached beliefs you should clearly never be exceeding 10mph in a 30 zone and 50mph on a motorway if you believe speed is absolutely dangerous.

 

Do you do that? Not even with speed cameras it seems.

 

 

All I have maintained is that speeding on city roads is dangerous, kills people and that if people don't know where speed cameras are all the time, then maybe they won't speed as much. I fail to see how these views make me a hypocrite.

 

Doing 40-50 mph in a busy 30 mph zone may well kill people and be very dangerous.

 

Doing 31 mph in a 30 mph zone whilst paying full attention to what you are doing is much LESS dangerous than doing 25-30 mph and not paying full attention to the road.

 

Speed cameras pick up the first issue, but police patrols pick up BOTH.

 

 

I don't understand why you've got such a beef with the authorites re speeding cameras if you're whiter than white as you claim to be.

 

For the reasons I've repeatedly stated, I have no problems with speed cameras USED CORRECTLY and in the RIGHT PLACES, I do however have many issues about going back to REVENUE CAMERA rules (which were rightly got rid of just a few years ago)

 

 

And I'm trying to pick a fight? You're the one throwing insults around and talking in your usual condescending manner.

 

As I mentioned before you started it, I just served it back, don't like it then don't start it in the first place.

 

Although I suppose that's the hypocrite issue again really isn't it.

[nufc4ever 0]

Text formatting ftw! \o/

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Simple - if you are worried about speed cameras stay within the limits

 

they are LIMITS not TARGETS

 

It is possible to travel SLOWER than the LIMIT without your leg falling off

 

And the argument that you are "only a little over the limit" doesn't wash - try that excuse when you "only" borrow a few quid out of the till at work for example......................

I tend not to believe people who say they never break the speed limit, but in your case Rob, I'll make an exception.

 

I imagine you still have a man with a red flag walking in front of your jalopy.