Asprilla 96 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. He was hardly fit all season, I don't think he played enough games in the whole of the season to really make a judgement like that or even manage to get dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. He was hardly fit all season, I don't think he played enough games in the whole of the season to really make a judgement like that or even manage to get dropped. Played nearly 30 games and the vast majority were starts and I can't remember him playing well once. So that's why I made that judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. He was hardly fit all season, I don't think he played enough games in the whole of the season to really make a judgement like that or even manage to get dropped. Played nearly 30 games and the vast majority were starts and I can't remember him playing well once. So that's why I made that judgement. And it was always a few games back then injury then a few game back then injury. Which really doesn't suggest he was undroppable, just unsurprisingly he was wanted to play when fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The fact Roeder played him every time he was fit suggests to me he wasn't a player forced upon the manager by Shepherd. That's all I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The fact Roeder played him every time he was fit suggests to me he wasn't a player forced upon the manager by Shepherd. That's all I was saying. Or that he was just a big player with a big reputation (as he certainly was still then) that was played in a side that was struggling with injuries and creativity when he himself came back from injury repeatedly. I just don't think you can say either way from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The fact Roeder played him every time he was fit suggests to me he wasn't a player forced upon the manager by Shepherd. That's all I was saying. Or that he was just a big player with a big reputation (as he certainly was still then) that was played in a side that was struggling with injuries and creativity when he himself came back from injury repeatedly. I just don't think you can say either way from that. Well yeah, it's just an opinion. I bet he played more games than you thought though. I must confess he played more than I thought. He played 2 more than Dyer who supposedly had 'sorted his injury problems out' at last last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The fact Roeder played him every time he was fit suggests to me he wasn't a player forced upon the manager by Shepherd. That's all I was saying. Or that he was just a big player with a big reputation (as he certainly was still then) that was played in a side that was struggling with injuries and creativity when he himself came back from injury repeatedly. I just don't think you can say either way from that. Well yeah, it's just an opinion. I bet he played more games than you thought though. I must confess he played more than I thought. He played 2 more than Dyer who supposedly had 'sorted his injury problems out' at last last season. Yup that's more than I thought he played, probably nearly a 1/3 more that I'd have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggiespaws 0 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I think the TF article is a pretty good assessment, although I also agree Roeder deserves some slack for his efforts in seeing out the rest of the season Souness began. I find the (what feels like a National) media focus on NUFC both embarrassing and frightening. It's like they want us to f**k up and we keep providing them with ammo (and when we don't, they just make up their own). Some of our recent results have been shocking and we are not playing the way I would have liked. I think people sometimes forget, Fergie was nearly was nearly out on his arse at Man Utd before winning his first trophy. Stability brings success and SA has inherited a club in dissarray. It will take time to establish that stability. I think Man City have had a terrific start to the season and they are the closest club to us in terms of a team undergoing big change. Sven has definitely started better than Sam but that is not a reason to get rid of Sam. FFS we are not even half way through the season yet. I think people are right to be disappointed with recent results and we should not sit back and accept dross just because we are in transition but by the same token, we do need to keep sight of the bigger picture and concentrate on giving the team, manager and board time to get it right. I remember when we were all talking about who out new manager should be, Sven was not universally supported as an option for us. I wonder how many people who felt he was not a good option given his England display are now comparing our run to City's and praising Sven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. He was hardly fit all season, I don't think he played enough games in the whole of the season to really make a judgement like that or even manage to get dropped. Played nearly 30 games and the vast majority were starts and I can't remember him playing well once. So that's why I made that judgement. Who else could he have played? Duff was poor but N'Zogbia was worse, leaving Alan O'Brien. Roeder also had a deal set up for Wayne Bridge on the condition that Ashley Cole went to Chelsea, both clubs signed the contracts in Manchester where England were training but Shepherd didn't bother going down, Lee Clark said that in a talk in. We also had the centre back fiasco where Roeder wanted Huth and Shepherd wanted Woodgate, both ended up at Boro and we had to make do. Tbf to Roeder he had money to spend in January (unless he was lying to cover for Shepherd) and didn't spend it because the players he wanted were not available, Curtis Davies and Crouch iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34190 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Really good article. Cheers for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Some actual intelligent writing on the subject True Faith I agree with some of it. I don't think Roeder should be lumped in with Souness to be fair. He got us into Europe from the jaws of relegation and his only full season was ravaged by injury and very few funds. Not saying he was a great manager but he did very little real damage, that was done the season before by the Fat Man and Souey. The thing it doesn't address are the strange team selections. Every manager has injured players to deal with but to put players out of position doesn't help matters. He didn't have 'very few funds' though. He had about £15m and bought Duff when N'Zogbia was arguably the best midfielder at the club. I see where you're coming from but I'm not having the 'very few funds' comment. Did Roeder really want Duff though or did Shepherd? ...you probably have more ITK info than me...( I have none ) but still the point is that £10m Martins was to replace Shearer...then he lost Owen. But either way, you can't say he didn't have funds. The way he played Duff regardless of form suggested it was his signing too. He did? I seem to remember him starting when available. When was he dropped like? I honestly can't remember. He was hardly fit all season, I don't think he played enough games in the whole of the season to really make a judgement like that or even manage to get dropped. Played nearly 30 games and the vast majority were starts and I can't remember him playing well once. So that's why I made that judgement. Who else could he have played? Duff was poor but N'Zogbia was worse, leaving Alan O'Brien. Roeder also had a deal set up for Wayne Bridge on the condition that Ashley Cole went to Chelsea, both clubs signed the contracts in Manchester where England were training but Shepherd didn't bother going down, Lee Clark said that in a talk in. We also had the centre back fiasco where Roeder wanted Huth and Shepherd wanted Woodgate, both ended up at Boro and we had to make do. Tbf to Roeder he had money to spend in January (unless he was lying to cover for Shepherd) and didn't spend it because the players he wanted were not available, Curtis Davies and Crouch iirc. If Duff wasn't a player he wanted he wouldn't have favoured him over N'Zogbia though, would he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 In my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 If Duff wasn't a player he wanted he wouldn't have favoured him over N'Zogbia though, would he? Wasn't Zog injured and then never really came back into form as well last season, and by the time he might he was fully into Le Sulk mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The problems are deeper than simply 'players out of postion' etc.. The overall squad lacks sparkle and lest we forget some of the key players are on the downslope of their careers whether it be age or injury..Cacapa, Geremi, Owen, Viduka, Butt, Duff, Emre etc.. The next rung of players are by PL standards still learning Taylor, Beye, Zoggy, Enrique, Milner, Roze etc.. We have very few players who are the right age and the right amount of experience/talent/overall fitness for what is a very unforgiving league. I would say Barton, Feye, Martins are the only ones who are about the right age/fitness/experinece for the PL. The most effective one of those three doesn't even start. In all reality the squad is an average PL squad and I'm sure if I fed data into a computer it would say we will finish between 8th-12th. Allardyce is under no illusions about this, but he has made mistakes and in the summer he really should have got in at least one pacey/creative player for the right to replace the Solano/Dyer axis. I also believe he should have got another ACM with creative components. After all when you fight you take as much ammo as you can you don't say well if I run out I'll get some later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The problems are deeper than simply 'players out of postion' etc.. The overall squad lacks sparkle and lest we forget some of the key players are on the downslope of their careers whether it be age or injury..Cacapa, Geremi, Owen, Viduka, Butt, Duff, Emre etc.. The next rung of players are by PL standards still learning Taylor, Beye, Zoggy, Enrique, Milner, Roze etc.. We have very few players who are the right age and the right amount of experience/talent/overall fitness for what is a very unforgiving league. I would say Barton, Feye, Martins are the only ones who are about the right age/fitness/experinece for the PL. The most effective one of those three doesn't even start. In all reality the squad is an average PL squad and I'm sure if I fed data into a computer it would say we will finish between 8th-12th. Allardyce is under no illusions about this, but he has made mistakes and in the summer he really should have got in at least one pacey/creative player for the right to replace the Solano/Dyer axis. I also believe he should have got another ACM with creative components. After all when you fight you take as much ammo as you can you don't say well if I run out I'll get some later. Mr. Sparkle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 The problems are deeper than simply 'players out of postion' etc.. The overall squad lacks sparkle and lest we forget some of the key players are on the downslope of their careers whether it be age or injury..Cacapa, Geremi, Owen, Viduka, Butt, Duff, Emre etc.. The next rung of players are by PL standards still learning Taylor, Beye, Zoggy, Enrique, Milner, Roze etc.. We have very few players who are the right age and the right amount of experience/talent/overall fitness for what is a very unforgiving league. I would say Barton, Feye, Martins are the only ones who are about the right age/fitness/experinece for the PL. The most effective one of those three doesn't even start. In all reality the squad is an average PL squad and I'm sure if I fed data into a computer it would say we will finish between 8th-12th. Allardyce is under no illusions about this, but he has made mistakes and in the summer he really should have got in at least one pacey/creative player for the right to replace the Solano/Dyer axis. I also believe he should have got another ACM with creative components. After all when you fight you take as much ammo as you can you don't say well if I run out I'll get some later. Mr. Sparkle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Unfortunately for Allardyce no one properly addressed the problem of replacing the 'Solano / Dyer axis' a few seasons ago when it was needed. And I'm a big fan of Solano too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Unfortunately for Allardyce no one properly addressed the problem of replacing the 'Solano / Dyer axis' a few seasons ago when it was needed. And I'm a big fan of Solano too. One of the reasons I'm holding back blaming him for everything. IMO there are probably only 2/3 things he needs to do inc purchases that will make a world of differance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Blackburn 1 point ahead of us. Quick get Hughes in now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Blackburn 1 point ahead of us. Quick get Hughes in now! Any idea of what the combined value of the Blackburn squad is compared to ours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckerDavies 0 Posted December 15, 2007 Author Share Posted December 15, 2007 Blackburn 1 point ahead of us. Quick get Hughes in now! With a weaker and less talent squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now