Is Sam the man ?

[Gemmill 34157]

No offence to Jimbo, but I find the fact that there's even need for a thread like this less than 20 league games into a manager's career at a club absolutely preposterous, and evidence of just how ludicrously impatient the modern football fan is, and in particular Newcastle fans (if he'd proved himself to be a complete spastic in his last job, that's one thing, but this bloke has done anything but).

 

Turning around a football club isn't something you do in a third of a season. It's gonna take a long time and it's about time this dawned on people. I mean fucking hell, we've all gone on about how we need proper foundations, a direction to the club, blah blah blah, for fucking ages, but when we actually get a chairman and a manager in who talk this exact language and want to work together to that end, people forget all about that and it's ZOMG I WANT IMMEDIATE RESULTS!!1111

 

I daren't even fucking go on NO these days, cos I dread to think what the patter is on there.

 

 

I don't disagree mate, but judging by the MSN conversations I've had today with fans and by the patern of voting its justified, as mad as it is.

 

The thread's probably justified from the point of view that there are enough people that have made their mind up about the bloke, but it's fucking crazy that people are making their minds up now. There's stuff Allardyce does that I can't get my head around - the most obvious being Milner on the left, N'Zogbia on the right, but this is a long-term job. I just wish we didn't have so many short-sighted spastics following the club.

 

If you have any semblance of a brain, it's not hard to think to yourself "the bloke is trying to build the foundations for prolonged success. I like what he's got to say, I like what the chairman has to say, and I'll suffer some of these short term setbacks to see if we can get there". But for most people it's "We lost and he didn't pick the exact team I wanted. I HATE HIM." It's just complete stupidity imo. Honestly I can't even put into words how fucking simple-minded someone would have to be to have made their mind up based on a run of a few games.

[Gemmill 34157]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I don't think you can say that someone "never learns" when you're looking at a sample of 12 league games. If he's making the same mistakes a year from now I'd be more prepared to accept the suggestion that he "never learns" from them.

[Baggio 0]

Maybe I'm wrong, if I am I apologise, perhaps you could tell me what things you think I've moaned about without justification?

 

Unless you meant something else by your comment towards me.

It's the general air of impatience (not from you in particular, but from the moaning-minnies in general) I find irksome. For all we know Allardyce might be working his socks off behind the scenes, putting the pieces in place to give us the foundations needed for success, repairing areas neglected by the previous regimes, lining up players for January etc, etc.

 

It's not going to fall into our laps and it's not going to happen overnight. Time, knowledge, hard work and stability is what is going to get us going in the right direction.

 

I didn't expect him to come in and change things straight away, however certain things such as tactics away from home and playing people out of position is a cause for concern, there really isn't an excuse as far as I'm concerned for these things unless he's got a major injury crisis.

 

Allardyce will get time if people can see he's moving the club in the right direction, some of the things he's done are putting doubts in people's minds about him doing that though.

[Gemmill 34157]

Maybe I'm wrong, if I am I apologise, perhaps you could tell me what things you think I've moaned about without justification?

 

Unless you meant something else by your comment towards me.

It's the general air of impatience (not from you in particular, but from the moaning-minnies in general) I find irksome. For all we know Allardyce might be working his socks off behind the scenes, putting the pieces in place to give us the foundations needed for success, repairing areas neglected by the previous regimes, lining up players for January etc, etc.

 

It's not going to fall into our laps and it's not going to happen overnight. Time, knowledge, hard work and stability is what is going to get us going in the right direction.

 

I didn't expect him to come in and change things straight away, however certain things such as tactics away from home and playing people out of position is a cause for concern, there really isn't an excuse as far as I'm concerned for these things unless he's got a major injury crisis.

 

Allardyce will get time if people can see he's moving the club in the right direction, some of the things he's done are putting doubts in people's minds about him doing that though.

 

You see, to me, him buying two full backs and three centre halfs was evidence that we're starting to move in the right direction. I'll forgive him the tactical errors while he tinkers with a side that he's STILL only sent out onto a pitch in 12 competitive league matches. Things don't work sometimes, but a sample of 12 games is REALLY small for people to be making their minds up one way or the other.

[Dr Gloom 19720]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I don't think you can say that someone "never learns" when you're looking at a sample of 12 league games. If he's making the same mistakes a year from now I'd be more prepared to accept the suggestion that he "never learns" from them.

 

so you agree he's making mistakes.

 

i think you probably feel the same about sam so far as the rest of us.

 

i don't see too many people saying we should sack him, just questioning his selections and asking whether he really is the man to take us further than our last few managers.

[The Fish 8946]

Maybe I'm wrong, if I am I apologise, perhaps you could tell me what things you think I've moaned about without justification?

 

Unless you meant something else by your comment towards me.

It's the general air of impatience (not from you in particular, but from the moaning-minnies in general) I find irksome. For all we know Allardyce might be working his socks off behind the scenes, putting the pieces in place to give us the foundations needed for success, repairing areas neglected by the previous regimes, lining up players for January etc, etc.

 

It's not going to fall into our laps and it's not going to happen overnight. Time, knowledge, hard work and stability is what is going to get us going in the right direction.

 

I didn't expect him to come in and change things straight away, however certain things such as tactics away from home and playing people out of position is a cause for concern, there really isn't an excuse as far as I'm concerned for these things unless he's got a major injury crisis.

 

Allardyce will get time if people can see he's moving the club in the right direction, some of the things he's done are putting doubts in people's minds about him doing that though.

 

Surely you need to try tactics to see if they work with the players you've got at the level you play?

 

there have been occasions where wingers who naturally prefer the one foot have done well on the opposite wing, especially when you're looking more to create chances and free kick opportunities on the edge of the box, rather than launching cross after cross towards our 3 foot strikers.

 

I understand the frustration, but wonder how many would have had the same hysterical reaction if we were playing Fulham away from home, or Wigan for example. We played poorly until we conceded against a team who should be lower than us in the league.

 

Surely Big Sam deserves a season... at the very fucking least. Robson was here 5 seasons and look what he accomplished, Keegan similarly, Dalglish, Gullit, Roeder and Souness all lasted a season or a little longer and were tosh. Big Sam comes with a pedigree and has already done a lot of good work in the backgrounds of the club. He needs time.

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I don't think you can say that someone "never learns" when you're looking at a sample of 12 league games. If he's making the same mistakes a year from now I'd be more prepared to accept the suggestion that he "never learns" from them.

 

so you agree he's making mistakes.

 

i think you probably feel the same about sam so far as the rest of us.

 

i don't see too many people saying we should sack him, just questioning his selections and asking whether he really is the man to take us further than our last few managers.

I'd prefer to call it experimenting.

[Gemmill 34157]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I don't think you can say that someone "never learns" when you're looking at a sample of 12 league games. If he's making the same mistakes a year from now I'd be more prepared to accept the suggestion that he "never learns" from them.

 

so you agree he's making mistakes.

 

i think you probably feel the same about sam so far as the rest of us.

 

i don't see too many people saying we should sack him, just questioning his selections and asking whether he really is the man to take us further than our last few managers.

 

Of course he's making mistakes, but so do all managers. I keep harping on about it, but he's picked the team 12 (twelve) times in the Premiership ffs - that's less than 12 times that his new defence has been able to play together through injury etc for a start, and I'm certain that as the season progresses things will get better there. Do people seriously think he's had long enough for them to start questioning whether he can take us further than the last few managers.

[Baggio 0]

Maybe I'm wrong, if I am I apologise, perhaps you could tell me what things you think I've moaned about without justification?

 

Unless you meant something else by your comment towards me.

It's the general air of impatience (not from you in particular, but from the moaning-minnies in general) I find irksome. For all we know Allardyce might be working his socks off behind the scenes, putting the pieces in place to give us the foundations needed for success, repairing areas neglected by the previous regimes, lining up players for January etc, etc.

 

It's not going to fall into our laps and it's not going to happen overnight. Time, knowledge, hard work and stability is what is going to get us going in the right direction.

 

I didn't expect him to come in and change things straight away, however certain things such as tactics away from home and playing people out of position is a cause for concern, there really isn't an excuse as far as I'm concerned for these things unless he's got a major injury crisis.

 

Allardyce will get time if people can see he's moving the club in the right direction, some of the things he's done are putting doubts in people's minds about him doing that though.

 

Surely you need to try tactics to see if they work with the players you've got at the level you play?

 

there have been occasions where wingers who naturally prefer the one foot have done well on the opposite wing, especially when you're looking more to create chances and free kick opportunities on the edge of the box, rather than launching cross after cross towards our 3 foot strikers.

 

I understand the frustration, but wonder how many would have had the same hysterical reaction if we were playing Fulham away from home, or Wigan for example. We played poorly until we conceded against a team who should be lower than us in the league.

 

Surely Big Sam deserves a season... at the very fucking least. Robson was here 5 seasons and look what he accomplished, Keegan similarly, Dalglish, Gullit, Roeder and Souness all lasted a season or a little longer and were tosh. Big Sam comes with a pedigree and has already done a lot of good work in the backgrounds of the club. He needs time.

 

I'm not saying Allardyce doesn't deserve the season but he needs to show that we're making a significant improvement by the end of it, you point to Keegan and Robson but they were kept on because we were improving under them as a club, Dalglish came with a better pedigree than Allardyce but he wasn't up to it either, sometimes it just goes that way in football.

[NJS 3956]

If Russia fail next week and Hiddink said he fancied a return to club football and there was a chance we could get him how many would give a second's thought to going for it?

 

Not me.

 

I voted not sure btw.

[Gemmill 34157]

If Russia fail next week and Hiddink said he fancied a return to club football and there was a chance we could get him how many would give a second's thought to going for it?

 

Not me.

 

I voted not sure btw.

 

I'd take Mourinho over Allardyce too, but we're Newcastle United and neither would be interested.

[tinofbeans 86]

12 games in and some of the shite i've seen on the internet about sam and his methods make me laugh.

 

he's inherited a team thats got no creativity (subjectively milner, nzogbia are hardly the best wingers or creative players i've seen) and up until the pompey game we weren't making as many defensive errors as last season.

I think we'll improve under sam, he just needs time and to undo his roeder-esque wrong player selections.

 

hopefully with a bit of money and time he'll pull it around.

[Dr Gloom 19720]

12 games in and some of the shite i've seen on the internet about sam and his methods make me laugh.

 

he's inherited a team thats got no creativity (subjectively milner, nzogbia are hardly the best wingers or creative players i've seen) and up until the pompey game we weren't making as many defensive errors as last season.

I think we'll improve under sam, he just needs time and to undo his roeder-esque wrong player selections.

 

hopefully with a bit of money and time he'll pull it around.

 

i'd say he's sold most of the creative players he inherited and failed to replace them

[NJS 3956]

If Russia fail next week and Hiddink said he fancied a return to club football and there was a chance we could get him how many would give a second's thought to going for it?

 

Not me.

 

I voted not sure btw.

 

I'd take Mourinho over Allardyce too, but we're Newcastle United and neither would be interested.

 

 

I think Allardyce was the best we could have got with Shepherd in charge - I just think Ashley's wealth MIGHT mean we could now do better.

 

I know its a cliche but I'm also not sure if Sam is suited to spending big which is what Asley might also have in mind.

[adios 717]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I totally agree with you about the first bolded, regarding the second bit, we're so much still in the short-term it's impossible to say.

 

I've no idea what Smith's story is, so the following is just to illustrate a point. Say Allardyce brings Alan Smith in because he decides he's seen something about him that he likes in central midfield. Day one Smith might have had a row with the wife, might have been up all night with the kid, might be trying too hard to impress the new fans, or might just not have clicked with his central midfield partner yet, and as a result has a shitter of a debut. Explode that out to all the variables that go into a team performance, and you get an idea of why it's so crucial to judge things over the long run, but the reality is, two games like that and a lot of people think Allardyce is an idiot for not seeing how obviously bad Smith is in that position, when the only thing that we can be reasonably confident of, is that not one of Allardyce's detractors, could do a better job than him.

 

Hope that makes sense, and can people try not to focus on and misconstrue the last ~15 words please.

[TheInspiration 1]

Brilliant at Bolton and clearly needs way more time, but the problem is I haven't seen much in him that suggests he can turn us around. He never seems to learn with his tactics and selection.

 

I totally agree with you about the first bolded, regarding the second bit, we're so much still in the short-term it's impossible to say.

 

I've no idea what Smith's story is, so the following is just to illustrate a point. Say Allardyce brings Alan Smith in because he decides he's seen something about him that he likes in central midfield. Day one Smith might have had a row with the wife, might have been up all night with the kid, might be trying too hard to impress the new fans, or might just not have clicked with his central midfield partner yet, and as a result has a shitter of a debut. Explode that out to all the variables that go into a team performance, and you get an idea of why it's so crucial to judge things over the long run, but the reality is, two games like that and a lot of people think Allardyce is an idiot for not seeing how obviously bad Smith is in that position, when the only thing that we can be reasonably confident of, is that not one of Allardyce's detractors, could do a better job than him.

 

Hope that makes sense, and can people try not to focus on and misconstrue the last ~15 words please.

Definitely true - only the short-term. Just what I've noted so far. Hopefuly he can turn it around though but we'll see. Needs more time to be judged.