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I do think he's a canny player. You can only play him upfront though. He can play with his back to goal, he'd give us the sort of workrate we've lacked there since Bellamy left and he's quite clever in terms of flicks, one-twos and playing team mates in. He's not prolific in terms of scoring, obviously. He isn't shit though. He's not a midfielder either.

 

so the manager cannot see this then? why not? I'm off to the Bolton site...

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I do think he's a canny player. You can only play him upfront though. He can play with his back to goal, he'd give us the sort of workrate we've lacked there since Bellamy left and he's quite clever in terms of flicks, one-twos and playing team mates in. He's not prolific in terms of scoring, obviously. He isn't shit though. He's not a midfielder either.

 

Agreed, and its a no brainer for all to see, why can't Allardyce see it too ?

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I do think he's a canny player. You can only play him upfront though. He can play with his back to goal, he'd give us the sort of workrate we've lacked there since Bellamy left and he's quite clever in terms of flicks, one-twos and playing team mates in. He's not prolific in terms of scoring, obviously. He isn't shit though. He's not a midfielder either.

 

so the manager cannot see this then? why not? I'm off to the Bolton site...

I don't know. For all I'm in the 'give him time' camp, even if it's just until the summer, I'm utterly perplexed by so many decisions Allardyce has made so far and Saturday was no better. I don't actually think it was the worst starting XI, given the injuries, but the 3-5-2 didn't do us any favours. No one knew what their role seemed to be and it was asking players, like Geremi for example, to do jobs they couldn't do.

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I do think he's a canny player. You can only play him upfront though. He can play with his back to goal, he'd give us the sort of workrate we've lacked there since Bellamy left and he's quite clever in terms of flicks, one-twos and playing team mates in. He's not prolific in terms of scoring, obviously. He isn't shit though. He's not a midfielder either.

 

...but he's shit in midfield, the position sam has played him at all season.

 

i agree that he's an option up front, but i'd still rank him as 4th choice at best.

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I do think he's a canny player. You can only play him upfront though. He can play with his back to goal, he'd give us the sort of workrate we've lacked there since Bellamy left and he's quite clever in terms of flicks, one-twos and playing team mates in. He's not prolific in terms of scoring, obviously. He isn't shit though. He's not a midfielder either.

 

...but he's shit in midfield, the position sam has played him at all season.

 

i agree that he's an option up front, but i'd still rank him as 4th choice at best.

Aye, I've already said that earlier. A lot of money for a 4th choice striker given our position when we signed him. Allardyce obviously fancies him as an all-action midfielder though. So did Ferguson but I don't see why Allardyce thought he'd succeed where Ferguson failed. It's a worry.

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Having had to sit amongst the Liverpool lot on Saturday, it's fucking annoying me that all the press have reported is that "Big Sam for England", "You Don't Know What You're Doing" and "You Should Have Stayed At The Reebok" were chants eminating from the home fans.... Most definitely not! There were also chants of "Your Geordie Missus, She Loves A Scouse Cock!" but they decided to ignore that one... ;)

 

Absolutely fucking terrible to have sat up there and had to listen to them tearing the fuck out of us for the simple reason that they were absolutely right. First half neither team came out of the blocks - passing was woeful from both sides and it seemed that whichever side got a break would take control and they did...

 

Moment of brilliance from Gerrard which completely knocked the stuffing out of us. Up until that point I thought we were equal to them. After that point we fell apart. In hindsight, perhaps it'd have been better if Torres' shot had gone in before half time because then at least Sam would have done something at half time. I can't believe he sent out the same team and even more so, that he made a sub 5 mins into the second half. We came out as we did in the first half, Liverpool came out with their heads screwed firmly on.

 

Defence was fragile but holding until the third went in and then we were in the lap of the Given who thankfully kept the score below a rout.

 

Didn't think Liverpool played particularly well as a team - Gerrard was outstanding and the young kid Lucas(?) - no.21 looked very promising but apart from that they were nothing special. This was more a shite display from us than anything decent from them.

 

Time for a change of manager? Hell no - that would be even worse and put us back to square one again... But I do think he needs the riot act reading for whatever the fuck he was playing at on Saturday.

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FWIW from Bolton Banter....

 

 

 

trophyshy

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 04:07 pm

 

Hello Bolton from this confused Newcastle fan,

 

Congratulations on beating Man U, something we seem a million miles from being able to do.

 

I wanted to ask you if you were ever or constantly baffled by BSA's tactics, substitutions, team selection etc when he either first started or at any stage of his tenure there.

 

All managers occasionally make odd decisions but Sam has clearly been dropping many clangers lately leaving the fans baffled. For instance Smith has been awful all year and is no midfielder and yet there he is, week in week out picking up yellow cards and little else.

 

What midfield there is out there is creating just about nothing for the forwards, or themselves. We really look clueless.

 

The fans are somewhat bemused by the choices Sam is making, particularly as we beleived we were getting a smart manager with a bit of a pedigree and able to deliver a TEAM performance.

 

Obviously it's very early days, but so far, with the exception of a couple of wins, our team has looked poor.

 

Any thoughts appreciated on your Allardyce era as compared to ours so far.

 

Last edited on Mon Nov 26th, 2007 04:10 pm by trophyshy

Woody

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 04:49 pm

 

Allardyce often made baffling decisions in his time here, but he had the time at Bolton to get a good side together playing the football he wanted them to play. I don't think Newcastle will give him time to do that myself.

 

At the moment, your team isn't exactly a top six side at all. So don't expect top six football yet. I don't see the point in sacking him yet myself, but you probably will. If you give him a year and you're in the bottom half of the table, then I'd get rid. But why get rid of a manager who's proven he can get an average team like ours and yours into the top eight for five consecutive years, just to bring in someone else?

 

 

 

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le god

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 05:04 pm

 

i've got a mate who is a toon fan and i said to him "there will be ups followed by massive downs, and you'll have no idea why."

 

 

 

 

 

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Billy Bradshaw

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 05:20 pm

 

Whilst you can't argue with the overall results of Allardyce's time at Bolton, there were many times that the fans were left baffled.

 

Making much needed changes when losing, but doing it with two minutes left to play, when the oncoming player had no chance of making an impact.

 

Sending a team to Sunderland at Christmas for a draw, when they only had five points and we were in the top 6 ish. Then compounding it by actually admitting it.

 

Refusing to drop his favourites (perhaps it's the same for all managers) when they clearly weren't performing.

 

Going a goal ahead inside ten minutes and then trying to defend for eighty minutes.

 

Constantly seeming happy to get a draw at grounds where we should have been trying to win.

 

When I list these things, it strikes me that he may have been more concerned with protecting his reputation towards the end of his time at the Reebok?

 

But he was instrumental in keeping us in the top 8 for so many seasons and given time, he could do the same for Newcastle. But then you could also argue that most managers would turn things around if given as much time as they need?

 

Newcastle (fans and board) will demand pretty much instant success....and I don't see it happening any time soon. They are some way off being a top six side at the moment, and as we have found, it's another massive step to become a top four side.

 

 

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 07:29 pm

 

Allardyce was always more than just a ninety minutes on the pitch manager. His major impact was on the structure of the club. Setting up systems that ran well. He admitted that he was not the fountain of all knowledge - but his skill was getting people in and around him who did know what thye were doing and then getting them to work. He was at rue manager in that he managed people.

 

Don't forget we diced with relegation a couple of times before he started getting it right.

 

On the pitch he could make some strange decisions but usually thye worked out foir the best.

 

A lot of the players he signed turned out to be no up to it - Jardel and numerous other foreign never heard of again types. But the good ones were exceptional - Djorkaeff, Okocha, Campo, Hierro tec.

 

Newcastle need to give him full control and plenty of time. Put up with the downs because in the long run he will succeed - you just have to wait for it. I fear that Newcastle will not do this and Sam will be wishing for a chairman like Gartside, who backed him all the way. Eighteen months and the money men who bought Newcastle will want him out.

 

I and concerned by the the high and mighty talk I have heard form Newcastle fans about how Sam was okay at a small club like Bolton but is not suitable for a big club like Newcastle. The same principles apply to any organisation over a ceratin size. What is different is the expectations of the support. Newcastle think they have some God given (not Shay) right to success. Whereas Bolton were happy with what emerged.

 

They've won nothing for a long time just the same as us.

 

 

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 07:38 pm

 

I would like to think that given time Big Sam would come ggod at Newcastle. As pointed out above, he will want to restructure the club and it will take a while for that to bear fruit. Time that probably wont be afforded to him at Newcastle.

 

I would also point out that whatever great things he did for Bolton (and there were many), as a manager he has pretty much failed to perform / get results for almost 12 months now.

 

Perhaps some of the ego's at Newcastle just cant accept his brash management style.

 

Cowdrill

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 07:54 pm

 

ffs

 

he's been there 5 minutes

 

given time he will win trophys with Newcastle IMO

 

it may take 2 years, it may take 5 - but he will

 

the man is a genius! he IS human so of course he has flaws - but he is a fantastic manager

 

and any Bolton fan that tells you otherwise is VERY fkn short sighted

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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melbourne dave

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 08:09 pm

 

Defiantly done some baffling things, but is a decent manager and will come good, smith played mid for united so sam prob thinks thats good enough for me.

 

 

 

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Posted: Mon Nov 26th, 2007 08:47 pm

 

Watching them on Saturday they were absolutely woeful and I couldnt believe one of Sams teams could play with so little spirit, then I remembered..

 

early on in Sams time with us we went to Tranmere for a league cup semi final 2nd leg and got stuffed 0-3. The team were all over the place and were out fought and out thought all over the pitch. It was one of my lowest times as a fan and I was there during the division 4 days! The thing was, we never really looked back from that time. Year after year from then on we just got stronger and stronger.

 

Perhaps our Tranmere was your Liverpool :whoknows:

 

Keep the faith. He will turn it around for you if you are patient.

 

 

 

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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 12:10 am

 

See my comments on the similar thread in General Football Chat.

 

Campos Barber

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Posted: Tue Nov 27th, 2007 09:11 am

 

Harry Genshaw wrote: Watching them on Saturday they were absolutely woeful and I couldnt believe one of Sams teams could play with so little spirit, then I remembered..

 

early on in Sams time with us we went to Tranmere for a league cup semi final 2nd leg and got stuffed 0-3. The team were all over the place and were out fought and out thought all over the pitch. It was one of my lowest times as a fan and I was there during the division 4 days! The thing was, we never really looked back from that time. Year after year from then on we just got stronger and stronger.

 

Perhaps our Tranmere was your Liverpool :whoknows:

 

Keep the faith. He will turn it around for you if you are patient.

 

I agree, that night at Prenton Park was about as low as I have ever felt watching the Wanderers. From there Yazz had it right the only way is up and how things went that way.

 

I agree though BSA is a manager who, with time, will turn Newcastle into a winning team. They won't play the sort of fantastic but Kamikaze football they did under Keegan but they will be successful.

 

That is if he is given the time to turn it around

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Interesting to read. Can you see us having that sort of patience? FS certainly wouldnt have and as always would have buckled under the pressure. Not sure about Mort/Ashley yet. What Sam does have going against him (other than results) is he wasnt their appointment and peoples heads have already rolled this season.

 

I do think he'll be here at least until the new year and a review could well happen then.

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we need top be patient. given time, i think sam will turn is into an unnattrative but effective outfit that can challenge the top 6, which is more than we've been able to do since we sacked sbr.

 

whether the fans and the management will give him the time to do that is another matter. i think we should, largely because i don't think we we could attract a better quality manager than sam.

 

if the likes of mourinho or lippi fancied the job, it would be another matter.

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would like to know what Jimbo's response to those Bolton fans are. ;)

 

and not in a smug arsey way, just genuine curiosity ;)

 

I see one of them made the point of Allardyce not getting results/performances for the last 12 months. Think I made that point a while ago <_<

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would like to know what Jimbo's response to those Bolton fans are. <_<

 

and not in a smug arsey way, just genuine curiosity ;)

 

 

Smug and arsey ! Moi ?

 

It was an interesting read, I felt the opinions were fairly mixed to be honest, I genuinely don't expect anyones opinions to be changed by any of those statements, if anything, depending on you point of view it would probably reinforce your opinion.

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Interesting and worrying imo, especially the bit about him playing for draws all the time and trying to defend, He won't last long up here playing that game

 

I think we knew that's how he'd always set his teams up before. I think people just hoped he'd be able to adapt his tactics from doing what was needed in front of 20,000 (and dwindling) disinterested fans, to taking the game to the opposition in front of 50,000+ who demand points however you perform.

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from .com

 

After the local spat that was the Tyne-where derby, we returned to normal domestic duties - although the shadow of England was cast across both the pitch and Directors Box here at SJP.

 

The unavailability of Taylor and Owen due to their international misadventures may have caused Sam Allardyce some annoyance and reduced his selection options - although we weren't alone in regretting that Smith hadn't also crocked himself in Vienna....

 

However, we were to be on the receiving end of one large piece of fallout from that Croatia debacle - and we don't mean the fact that Macca wasn't freeloading here yet again.

 

Ashley may reflect that having been prevented from buying the whole away section a half time pint at the stadium of plight is the only positive piece of financial news to come his way of late.

 

Estimates of the loss to the economy caused by England's Euro 2008 failure vary, but are comfortably in the billions, of which some had been destined to be spent on football shirts and associated patriotic tat in one of Ashley's Sports Direct emporia.

 

None of this will have improved the owner's mood as he took his seat to witness what some claim to be the worst 45 minutes they can recall witnessing at this ground - memories of the glories of Bobby Shinton preclude us from agreeing however; we'll just settle for worst in the Premiership.

 

The inevitability of Gerrard receiving pantomime boos from home fans was as high as his wanting to put in a good performance and vent his midweek frustrations on a piece of opposition goal net.

 

He already looked like a man on a mission without any stoking from wor lot, but many were happy to wind him up anyway - what a shame they couldn't direct their vocal energies into something more traditional, like offering encouragement to their own side. God knows they needed it.

 

Since when did the national team matter so much up here? Are people really that gutted that they're missing out on a trip to the land of cuckoo clocks and six quid pints of fizzy, or the chance to fester on their own sofas soaking up Motty's painful Rio Ferdinand / Archduke Ferdinand quippery?

 

This then reached new heights of ridiculousness when the arriving Peter Crouch was afforded a better reception from home fans than Newcastle substitute Stephen Carr, who inexplicably found something to laugh about in the midst of all this Magpie misery.

 

Now we're no lovers of the defender (and had our high hopes recently dashed when misreading a Skysports breaking news strap line about his international retirement) but we still harbour some notion of positivity towards that black and white shirt he was wearing, rather than a lanky streak of **** who has scored against us for Villa, Southampton and Liverpool in past times.

 

In fairness by that point in the game we were firmly into "It's A Knockout" territory, Allardyce having set the tone with his formation and subsequent random replacements. Many people thought he was taking the proverbial, so amused themselves in the same manner.

 

At 0-3, the atmosphere amongst those who remained was akin to the Crystal Palace game a couple of seasons ago - but without the paper darts....or the clean sheet.

 

The only vocals from the home crowd were of the sarcastic sort (directed towards team and manager) or supportive (directed towards the away fans when they threw in one of their own anti-Allardyce ditties.

 

That was a development from the previous Pompey rimming, but Pamarot's fizzer past Harper and Gerrard's cannon past Given from roughly the same spot had the same negative effect on the side - a tepid surrender.

 

There may have been seven changes from the starting lineup against Pompey (Harper, Taylor, Faye, Cacapa, Barton, Milner, Owen) but the lack of a response once behind remained - as did the feeling of disgust at our helplessness.

 

Yes there were injuries and selection issues, but aside from one wide Smith effort in the dying moments, we failed completely to create anything constructive.

 

Once again we were a beaten team once we went behind: the price of a policy of damage limitation and not sending a team out to earn a win, rather hoping they might nick one - somehow.

 

The 3-5-2 system adopted seemed to cause confusion across the field - notably in the case of Geremi, who was unable to comprehend what was required, or unable to meet the challenge.

 

That unbalanced the whole thing as he played a vaguely right back role while N'Zogbia on the other side abandoned any pretence at covering but failed to push forward sufficiently to be an outlet.

 

As a result the sight of Butt vainly looking to his right for someone on the overlap was repeated more than once - while our midfield five left holes between themselves and the rearguard that surely weren't in Sam's plans.

 

And up front, a fleet-footed striker who needs chances was trying to pluck the ball out of the sky with a posse of defenders round him, while his forward companion seemed almost incapable of movement - where once was Andy Cole is now....a bag of coal.

 

Having said that, neither had any service worth speaking of - no scraps for Oba, no crosses for Viduka until it was far too late - by which he was so puggled he couldn't stay onside. Had Owen played it's doubtful it would have made one iota of difference.

 

Of course we've been here before when the Reds come to Tyneside, with as many bad days as good on Tyneside over the years.

 

In terms of our snail-like rearguard and under-performing midfield, the defeat here in 1998 comes to mind only too easily, when a cheeky hand-rubbing monkey called Michael grabbed three as we trailed 1-4 at half time.

 

(Opinion still varies about who opted to go with 3-5-2 for that one: new boss Gullit, caretakerish boss Tommy Craig or a senior player from Gosforth....)

 

Whoever suggested it though, messrs Albert, Charvet and Pearce were run ragged, while Serrant and Watson were equally inept on the flanks.

 

However, unlike this 2007 stuffing, we did manage a shot on goal (Guivarc'h netting via a post) and as the Press Association report of the time testifies, found some strength and guts after the break:

 

The second half saw the Dutchman switching the side to 4-4-2....The response from Newcastle was commendable, the fight and spirit was there.

 

No chance of anyone writing that today, as we sauntered out after half time as we'd just enjoyed an early lunch after enforcing the follow on.

 

As we said in the Pompey report, the unacceptable element isn't conceding goals but in reacting positively to going behind, both in stemming the flow and mounting a fightback. On that basis it's impossible to explain the Newcastle substitutions today.

 

Blame the manager for the formation, the tactics and the motivation, but the lack of basic professionalism and fight from the players can only be explained by the fact that they don't subscribe to his footballing doctrine - or haven't got a clue what he's asking them to do.

 

Allardyce is fighting against recent history and the mindset of part of the crowd, who harboured suspicions about him based on Reebok experiences - and aren't even seeing their low expectations met at this point in time.

 

Muddled tactics, substitutions and performances belie jibes that his sides are models of austere efficiency and give the fans the worst of both worlds: nowt to admire at either end of the park.

 

Were there to be a semblance of something positive to be taken from recent displays we could endure losing this game and more - that's the sort of cobblers we told ourselves when Ardiles thought that diamonds were forever and young guns could go for it.

 

He failed, but we could see what he was trying to do. Not so this time.

 

No hint of advancement or development, no green shoots, no hope.

 

Nothing to cheer or support - save for the club itself.

 

Something has to come from the pitch to give hope, belief and inspiration to the long-suffering fans - the days of the crowd inspiring the team are at least temporarily over so it seems.

 

Also apparently extinct are those times when we sang for their own amusement regardless of our onfield fortunes have now disappeared. This is now strictly Roy Walker - "say what you see."

 

But for every slack-jawed 606 wailer and text message ranter, there remain quieter but no less dismayed supporters, making rational judgments based on the evidence of their own eyes.

 

People who don't think we have a god-given right to win every game and who don't spit the dummy out or slope off back to the pub if things go against them.

 

When those people are rubbing their eyes in disbelief and contemplating other pastimes, the bells are really ringing for the invasion. That time appears to be drawing as quickly as the dark nights.

 

So after thirteen games is it ludicrous to suggest kicking the manager out?

 

We're now in the land of laptops where scouts are accompanied by statisticians on their missions, so here's some numbers to crunch:

 

Roeder's final 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 14

Souness' final 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 18

 

Allardyce's first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 21

 

Roeder's first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 14

Souness' first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 26

 

So our defence was better - or at least no worse - under the previous two managers than it is now, when their fate was the sack. And on the other side of the spreadsheet, Souness kept his job despite having a more porous defence than we do currently.

 

We ourselves have said recently that this increased impatience is a new thing, but a look in our own back pages reveals that not to be quite true - the following is from the Liverpool (a) report of December 2004, Premiership game 13 for Souness:

 

Precisely why we bother at all is a moot point - after all, the players don't look particularly bothered......as someone said leaving the ground today; if Newcastle offered a full refund on season tickets now, how many people would take it up? A staggering number, one suspects.

 

At best this is another lost season - at worst, it could yet end in something unimaginable. How willing people will be in four months to stump up their hard-earned for another campaign remains to be seen.....

 

Something needs to collectively shake us up from our slumbers.... whether Souness can accomplish the feat of stirring players and fans remains to be seen. Defeat at Blackburn is unthinkable, but all too likely.

 

If Allardyce is to be given the time he wishes and requires to do the job he was brought here for, then there has to be some immediate sign of progression, some immediate payback to mute the malcontents and reward those not leaping on the anti-Sam bandwagon.

 

Our signoff line after the defeat at Derby was to: "try and remain in positive mode - not giving underachievers & shirkers an easy ride, but acknowledging effort and providing encouragement."

 

That should apply to the manager as much as the fans - and if it's not forthcoming from the latter, it's the job of the chairman and owner to decide who is at fault and act accordingly.

 

A man who built his managerial career begging in the pubs of Limerick or existing on shoestring budgets at Blackpool and Notts County needs to urgently rediscover some of his organisation and motivational abilities, if he's not to find events spiralling out of control between now and Christmas.

 

Pre-match, Allardyce made no secret of the fact he and the Liverpool boss don't get on - but his team hardly came out of the blocks as if they were intent on fighting his corner. That speaks volumes.

 

Never mind formations, ice baths or Prozone coefficients, if the manager can't instill fight or guts (that all-inclusive term "passion") into his team at Ewood or when the Gunners come here, then he's wasting his time here - and ours.

 

Not winning is bad enough - playing like a bunch of losers is utterly unacceptable.

 

Biffa

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from .com

 

After the local spat that was the Tyne-where derby, we returned to normal domestic duties - although the shadow of England was cast across both the pitch and Directors Box here at SJP.

 

The unavailability of Taylor and Owen due to their international misadventures may have caused Sam Allardyce some annoyance and reduced his selection options - although we weren't alone in regretting that Smith hadn't also crocked himself in Vienna....

 

However, we were to be on the receiving end of one large piece of fallout from that Croatia debacle - and we don't mean the fact that Macca wasn't freeloading here yet again.

 

Ashley may reflect that having been prevented from buying the whole away section a half time pint at the stadium of plight is the only positive piece of financial news to come his way of late.

 

Estimates of the loss to the economy caused by England's Euro 2008 failure vary, but are comfortably in the billions, of which some had been destined to be spent on football shirts and associated patriotic tat in one of Ashley's Sports Direct emporia.

 

None of this will have improved the owner's mood as he took his seat to witness what some claim to be the worst 45 minutes they can recall witnessing at this ground - memories of the glories of Bobby Shinton preclude us from agreeing however; we'll just settle for worst in the Premiership.

 

The inevitability of Gerrard receiving pantomime boos from home fans was as high as his wanting to put in a good performance and vent his midweek frustrations on a piece of opposition goal net.

 

He already looked like a man on a mission without any stoking from wor lot, but many were happy to wind him up anyway - what a shame they couldn't direct their vocal energies into something more traditional, like offering encouragement to their own side. God knows they needed it.

 

Since when did the national team matter so much up here? Are people really that gutted that they're missing out on a trip to the land of cuckoo clocks and six quid pints of fizzy, or the chance to fester on their own sofas soaking up Motty's painful Rio Ferdinand / Archduke Ferdinand quippery?

 

This then reached new heights of ridiculousness when the arriving Peter Crouch was afforded a better reception from home fans than Newcastle substitute Stephen Carr, who inexplicably found something to laugh about in the midst of all this Magpie misery.

 

Now we're no lovers of the defender (and had our high hopes recently dashed when misreading a Skysports breaking news strap line about his international retirement) but we still harbour some notion of positivity towards that black and white shirt he was wearing, rather than a lanky streak of **** who has scored against us for Villa, Southampton and Liverpool in past times.

 

In fairness by that point in the game we were firmly into "It's A Knockout" territory, Allardyce having set the tone with his formation and subsequent random replacements. Many people thought he was taking the proverbial, so amused themselves in the same manner.

 

At 0-3, the atmosphere amongst those who remained was akin to the Crystal Palace game a couple of seasons ago - but without the paper darts....or the clean sheet.

 

The only vocals from the home crowd were of the sarcastic sort (directed towards team and manager) or supportive (directed towards the away fans when they threw in one of their own anti-Allardyce ditties.

 

That was a development from the previous Pompey rimming, but Pamarot's fizzer past Harper and Gerrard's cannon past Given from roughly the same spot had the same negative effect on the side - a tepid surrender.

 

There may have been seven changes from the starting lineup against Pompey (Harper, Taylor, Faye, Cacapa, Barton, Milner, Owen) but the lack of a response once behind remained - as did the feeling of disgust at our helplessness.

 

Yes there were injuries and selection issues, but aside from one wide Smith effort in the dying moments, we failed completely to create anything constructive.

 

Once again we were a beaten team once we went behind: the price of a policy of damage limitation and not sending a team out to earn a win, rather hoping they might nick one - somehow.

 

The 3-5-2 system adopted seemed to cause confusion across the field - notably in the case of Geremi, who was unable to comprehend what was required, or unable to meet the challenge.

 

That unbalanced the whole thing as he played a vaguely right back role while N'Zogbia on the other side abandoned any pretence at covering but failed to push forward sufficiently to be an outlet.

 

As a result the sight of Butt vainly looking to his right for someone on the overlap was repeated more than once - while our midfield five left holes between themselves and the rearguard that surely weren't in Sam's plans.

 

And up front, a fleet-footed striker who needs chances was trying to pluck the ball out of the sky with a posse of defenders round him, while his forward companion seemed almost incapable of movement - where once was Andy Cole is now....a bag of coal.

 

Having said that, neither had any service worth speaking of - no scraps for Oba, no crosses for Viduka until it was far too late - by which he was so puggled he couldn't stay onside. Had Owen played it's doubtful it would have made one iota of difference.

 

Of course we've been here before when the Reds come to Tyneside, with as many bad days as good on Tyneside over the years.

 

In terms of our snail-like rearguard and under-performing midfield, the defeat here in 1998 comes to mind only too easily, when a cheeky hand-rubbing monkey called Michael grabbed three as we trailed 1-4 at half time.

 

(Opinion still varies about who opted to go with 3-5-2 for that one: new boss Gullit, caretakerish boss Tommy Craig or a senior player from Gosforth....)

 

Whoever suggested it though, messrs Albert, Charvet and Pearce were run ragged, while Serrant and Watson were equally inept on the flanks.

 

However, unlike this 2007 stuffing, we did manage a shot on goal (Guivarc'h netting via a post) and as the Press Association report of the time testifies, found some strength and guts after the break:

 

The second half saw the Dutchman switching the side to 4-4-2....The response from Newcastle was commendable, the fight and spirit was there.

 

No chance of anyone writing that today, as we sauntered out after half time as we'd just enjoyed an early lunch after enforcing the follow on.

 

As we said in the Pompey report, the unacceptable element isn't conceding goals but in reacting positively to going behind, both in stemming the flow and mounting a fightback. On that basis it's impossible to explain the Newcastle substitutions today.

 

Blame the manager for the formation, the tactics and the motivation, but the lack of basic professionalism and fight from the players can only be explained by the fact that they don't subscribe to his footballing doctrine - or haven't got a clue what he's asking them to do.

 

Allardyce is fighting against recent history and the mindset of part of the crowd, who harboured suspicions about him based on Reebok experiences - and aren't even seeing their low expectations met at this point in time.

 

Muddled tactics, substitutions and performances belie jibes that his sides are models of austere efficiency and give the fans the worst of both worlds: nowt to admire at either end of the park.

 

Were there to be a semblance of something positive to be taken from recent displays we could endure losing this game and more - that's the sort of cobblers we told ourselves when Ardiles thought that diamonds were forever and young guns could go for it.

 

He failed, but we could see what he was trying to do. Not so this time.

 

No hint of advancement or development, no green shoots, no hope.

 

Nothing to cheer or support - save for the club itself.

 

Something has to come from the pitch to give hope, belief and inspiration to the long-suffering fans - the days of the crowd inspiring the team are at least temporarily over so it seems.

 

Also apparently extinct are those times when we sang for their own amusement regardless of our onfield fortunes have now disappeared. This is now strictly Roy Walker - "say what you see."

 

But for every slack-jawed 606 wailer and text message ranter, there remain quieter but no less dismayed supporters, making rational judgments based on the evidence of their own eyes.

 

People who don't think we have a god-given right to win every game and who don't spit the dummy out or slope off back to the pub if things go against them.

 

When those people are rubbing their eyes in disbelief and contemplating other pastimes, the bells are really ringing for the invasion. That time appears to be drawing as quickly as the dark nights.

 

So after thirteen games is it ludicrous to suggest kicking the manager out?

 

We're now in the land of laptops where scouts are accompanied by statisticians on their missions, so here's some numbers to crunch:

 

Roeder's final 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 14

Souness' final 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 18

 

Allardyce's first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 21

 

Roeder's first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 14

Souness' first 13 Premiership games in charge of NUFC = conceded 26

 

So our defence was better - or at least no worse - under the previous two managers than it is now, when their fate was the sack. And on the other side of the spreadsheet, Souness kept his job despite having a more porous defence than we do currently.

 

We ourselves have said recently that this increased impatience is a new thing, but a look in our own back pages reveals that not to be quite true - the following is from the Liverpool (a) report of December 2004, Premiership game 13 for Souness:

 

Precisely why we bother at all is a moot point - after all, the players don't look particularly bothered......as someone said leaving the ground today; if Newcastle offered a full refund on season tickets now, how many people would take it up? A staggering number, one suspects.

 

At best this is another lost season - at worst, it could yet end in something unimaginable. How willing people will be in four months to stump up their hard-earned for another campaign remains to be seen.....

 

Something needs to collectively shake us up from our slumbers.... whether Souness can accomplish the feat of stirring players and fans remains to be seen. Defeat at Blackburn is unthinkable, but all too likely.

 

If Allardyce is to be given the time he wishes and requires to do the job he was brought here for, then there has to be some immediate sign of progression, some immediate payback to mute the malcontents and reward those not leaping on the anti-Sam bandwagon.

 

Our signoff line after the defeat at Derby was to: "try and remain in positive mode - not giving underachievers & shirkers an easy ride, but acknowledging effort and providing encouragement."

 

That should apply to the manager as much as the fans - and if it's not forthcoming from the latter, it's the job of the chairman and owner to decide who is at fault and act accordingly.

 

A man who built his managerial career begging in the pubs of Limerick or existing on shoestring budgets at Blackpool and Notts County needs to urgently rediscover some of his organisation and motivational abilities, if he's not to find events spiralling out of control between now and Christmas.

 

Pre-match, Allardyce made no secret of the fact he and the Liverpool boss don't get on - but his team hardly came out of the blocks as if they were intent on fighting his corner. That speaks volumes.

 

Never mind formations, ice baths or Prozone coefficients, if the manager can't instill fight or guts (that all-inclusive term "passion") into his team at Ewood or when the Gunners come here, then he's wasting his time here - and ours.

 

Not winning is bad enough - playing like a bunch of losers is utterly unacceptable.

 

Biffa

 

not exactly a vote of confidence from the dotcom boys, and they tend to capture the mood pretty well

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they tend to capture pessimism rather well, you'll find they're often wide of the mark with their assessments, when we're doing well and playing good football

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they tend to capture pessimism rather well, you'll find they're often wide of the mark with their assessments, when we're doing well and playing good football

 

So their assessments have been spot on for the past few years then. ;)

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