Certain People I Know

[Scottish Mag 3]

With seven goals shipped in the last two home games and unhappiness at several other results this season (i.e. Derby, Reading and the Mackems) it's abundantly clear there are problems aplenty at NUFC where confidence in Sam Allardyce is draining. It is an extremely worrying situation though it has to be said emphatically that those calling for Allardyce to be sacked are offering few suggestions as to who might replace him. As we all know to our bitter experience, we are a club that has found it very easy to sack managers but has little clue as to how to appoint the right man. NUFC appears to be stuck in a perpetual Groundhog Day scenario of sack-a-manager-appoint-a-manager-sack-a-manager with the club treading water whilst those around us put down proper foundations and move forward. With every managerial appointment that fails, the undercurrent is one of decline. It just can't go on.

 

I looked at the league table this morning (nice to see the Mackems slip into the bottom three by the way) and couldn't help but be struck by the sight of those clubs with a modicum of stability making progress up the table. Everton have had some stop-start seasons under David Moyes but after four or some such seasons look like a pretty handy Premiership side. To our pleasure last Saturday, the Toffees did very well. O'Neill has only been at Villa a season and a bit, hasn't spent spectacularly but there are clear signs of progress. Redknapp has been back at Pompey, spent wisely, built steadily and are widely tipped to for a UEFA Cup spot.

 

But the real example of clubs getting it right and getting it wrong was at SJP on Saturday.

 

I remember vividly being at Anfield (it was roasting and the uncovered pale skinned amongst us collected some uncomfortable sun burn to go with the NUFC headache associated) in the Anfield Road End on the last day of the season when we were seeking a point to ensure UEFA Cup qualification in a season where its fair to say we blew two Champions League campaigns in one go - namely SBR's last full term of office. The Partzan penalty shoot out pisser and a campaign which unravelled through a lack of discipline from the brat pack. We hung on and got the point and UEFA Cup football the following season and Liverpool squeaked into the Champions League. The striking thing about that game however was what it meant to both the managers. Gerard Houllier, identified as past his sell-by date, who had brought numerous trophies to Anfield over his five year reign (though no title) was shown the door in a dignified and well ordered fashion. Clearly, the Liverpool board had been doing its homework and appointed Rafael Benitez as his replacement in an effortless succession. Benitez arrived, began bringing in a core of his own players and prepared for the following season. Shepherd made some lame comments about not wanting to be the man who shot Bambi - meaning he lacked the balls to shuffle a clearly shot SBR into retirement. We had a close season of rancour and rumour. SBR, with responsibility but apparently no authority did little to prepare the team for the following season and appeared, in my opinion, to be wholly undermined by Shepherd, who it has been alleged assumed control for the purchase and sale of players. The contrast in the management of Liverpool and Newcastle United could not have been more stark.

 

The following season, Liverpool, though far from the finished product and carrying enough luck to sink a battleship won the Champions League on a mental night in Istanbul. Newcastle United on the other hand had sold Woodgate to Real Madrid with no replacement lined up, made a bizarre bid for Wayne "only-going-to-one-place-and-it-certainly-wasn't-NUFC" Rooney, sacked SBR early in the season and attempted to appoint a replacement. It is alleged the club was turned down by Steve Bruce, who had signed a new contract with Birmingham in the previous summer and Sam Allardyce who did not wish to leave Bolton during the season and who it is further rumoured could not come to an agreement about building a coaching set up at NUFC similar to the one he had at Bolton, with Shepherd. A return to football for Martin O'Neill as he did the right thing and stayed by his wife's side through her illness didn't happen and further rumours the job was offered to Alan Shearer but was declined also did the rounds. Rumoured to be three games from the sack at Blackburn, the job was offered to Graeme Souness, who naturally accepted. Souness turned NUFC into a joke, his buying of players predominantly via one agent, foolhardy to say the least as the club began to revolve around his supreme vanity and out-dated understanding of the game, man-management and even modern life. He was sacked inevitably and to everyone's amazement Roeder appointed. You all know what happened in the close season - Shepherd went after O'Neill, failed miserably and we stumbled into last season ill-prepared with the inevitable results. Roeder, lamentably out of his depth led NUFC through a car crash of a season.

 

Years and years of poor management, lack of planning, fluffed decisions, wasted resources and our club run by bluffers, greedy bastards, bull-shitters and inadequates. That cycle has to be broken if Newcastle United is ever to have a future of progress.

 

This isn't something a lot of you reading this will agree with. There is a hang 'em high mood gathering pace amongst supporters who now have identified Sam Allardyce as the devil incarnate, the root of all of our woes and if we could only get rid of Sam ... You know the rest. Fair enough, far be it from me to act as Allardyce's defence counsel but I will ask the question - if not Sam, then who?

 

We're busy putting the next issue of true faith together (its out for the Birmingham game) and the editorial team have a major problem. We know there is a strong element of our support who wishes it had never clapped sight on Allardyce. We've given a platform for those views via true faith and we'll continue to do so. We edit the fanzine, we don't censor it. But we've invited several of Allardyce's most vitriolic of critics to put together a piece which might act as a short-list of potential successors to Sam Allardyce. We're after five names. So far, his critics, the lads and lasses calling for Sam's bollocks to be nailed to the top of The Leazes, have fluffed that opportunity. Those of you reading this who think you could oblige need to know one thing - we aren't after a wish-list of celebrity managers. We want a list of names who could realistically be attracted to Newcastle United at this moment in time, whose contracts would allow them to join us and whose career records suggest something approaching success but who may regard coming to Newcastle United as an opportunity. Its easy to rattle down a list of names; Shearer (how many times are we going to ask him before we get the message?), Mourinho (ha-ha-ha), Jol (just left Spurs third bottom), Hitzfeld, Lippi, Capello and any other Euro high achiever who might think its a great idea to come and manage a club which has an unenviable reputation as a managerial graveyard, where there is a huge amount of uncertainly regarding the dosh available to strengthen the squad, which isn't in London or the Champions League, which hasn't won a domestic honour since 1955, with a financial situation which is far from ideal and with a following, though totally devoted, clearly well out of patience.

 

Without being drawn into a tedious debate about what constitutes a "big club" (yawn) I think we all have to acknowledge, Newcastle United does not have the cachet it might have had under KK or even under SBR. I'd love to delude myself the top players and best managers all over Europe are out their pissing themselves about coming to NUFC but they are not. The best will want to go where they have the best opportunity for success, where they will be developed and where they will be paid the most. Newcastle United, at this moment in time is not that kind of destination and I hate myself for coming to that conclusion. But it is the reality. We've got lots of supporters, we've got a nice stadium but fuck all else. The Academy? Nothing coming through to get excited about and a squad largely made from cast-offs from the bargain basement of European football - that is all Allardyce was able to bring in with the budget he had available.

 

Any of you out there who fancy getting five names to us as Sam's potential successors, which won't make us piss ourselves laughing, with a strong explanation as to why they would come and how they would succeed, without saying - "give Jose £6bn and I'm certain he'd come here for a couple of years and win the lot" and we'll consider it for publication. Its an 800 word limit. Its got to be well-written and it hasn't got to carry any amount of pre-conditions. Its got to be a workable list. Fancy it? Well done if you are because plenty others have passed on the opportunity - editor@true-faith.co.uk - Be quick because we need it sharp.

 

*

 

We were a shambles at home to Liverpool. It was a different kind of shambles to Portsmouth and Derby but a shambles nonetheless. Like many I sat on my Mag perch at SJP on Saturday and was utterly bewildered by what I saw. I couldn't tell you what formation we had out and keep a straight face, what the substitutions meant or what the game plan was. I looked at Nigel Pearson on the touch-line and couldn't help but think of those grim photos we used to laugh at of him next to Captain Lager down at The Beasts and West Brom as events overcame him. I looked at Terry McDermott and wondered what this bloke is bringing to the party. Coach? I don't know. There is no doubt Allardyce lost the crowd on Saturday or rather those who love a bit booing and think its okay to join in with the taunts from the away end. Welcome to Celebrity Big Brother Football. We just need Davina McCall outside the main stand at The Milburn bringing out the next sap who has incurred the wrath of the boo-boys into the flash-lights. I'm sure I wasn't the only one to compare the incomparable support we had at Anfield in '84 for that FAC tie on the Friday night and the fractious SJP on Saturday. We're all entitled to be unhappy at performances like that but I just don't get how allowing yourself to be framed abusing the manager for the idle entertainment of the SKY generation counts as supporting the club. If that sounds sniffy, its not meant to and once again, those who have been booing at SJP since Villa this season can contact us at true faith and make their case as to how its helping Newcastle United Football Club.

 

*

 

To quote the manager its a tough period and we have to dig in. He didn't mean the support, he meant the players but he could have been talking to us. Whatever anyone thinks of Sam Alardyce, and remember we aren't his defence counsel, he doesn't talk shite. He has held his hands up and admitted the team were gash when they clearly have been. We can go two ways. We can delight the club's enemies in the media and give them a nice new juicy story by continuing to slaughter Allardyce, which will have the specific result of making matters much worse or we can get behind the lads as in the days of yore; the away following is beyond compare in its excellence but we can turn SJP into a bear pit, where there is rage and venom in every nook and cranny but it is turned against the opposition rather than in ourselves. Its up to all of us.

 

Now is the time for good men and women to come to the aid of the club we all love!

 

Keep On, Keepin' On ...

[Ketsbaia 0]

Cracking article

[Jimbo 133]

A deeply depressing read, though hard to argue with.

[Tom 13811]

Good article.

 

Maybe we should act on it

[Fop 1]

Not sure I agree with the Robson bit at all though.

 

If he were to be sacked then the end of that season would have been best, but given that he was hamstrung and undermined by FFS from at least April of the prior season he was in a largely no win situation.

 

Sacking him when they did though was utterly stupid, although by that point FFS had undermined him to the point where in fairness he probably had little choice. Still I would say that had Robson been allowed to finish that season we'd have finished at least as highly as we did.

 

IIRC many fans were baying for Robson's blood at the time as well, which shows how deeply the issues in this club run.

[JawD 31]

Good article aye. Just wish a few more would read it and let it sink it. Fact is, we aint a top or even half decent club at the moment (or for a few years now). We aint attracting the top players / managers etc. We're a mid table mediocre club with fickle fans who if half of the energy put into booing the side was put into supporting them would improve the atmosphere ten fold. I dont sing much these days (unless at away games), I dont boo either. More sit depressed of late. Sam may or may not get it right, see the light, improve things as some of the managers above did given time. But this is NUFC and for some reason many of us feel we should be different and actually deserve better? Yeah right.

[wykikitoon 16498]

Cracking read and its made me think about my own thoughts. BUT, like them, I am still baffled what tactics and positions BSA is playing the players in and why?

[peasepud 59]

Yes, an excellent article but I disagree with the following:

 

To quote the manager its a tough period and we have to dig in. He didn't mean the support, he meant the players but he could have been talking to us. Whatever anyone thinks of Sam Alardyce, and remember we aren't his defence counsel, he doesn't talk shite. He has held his hands up and admitted the team were gash when they clearly have been.

 

When he comes out and admits he was at fault then I'll forgive, its easy however to admit the team let us down but it takes a bigger man to stand up and say "I made mistakes" something which could be heard coming from Keane on Saturday, he took the blame, he said that it was his fault because he picked the team, he chose the tactics etc.

 

Big Sam comes out and does the same then it'll be back to the start for me, lesson learnt now lets get on and do the job with a clean slate. Until then I'll still be saying the same as I was, Sam doesnt know what hes doing and will not change.

 

 

 

We can go two ways. We can delight the club's enemies in the media and give them a nice new juicy story by continuing to slaughter Allardyce, which will have the specific result of making matters much worse or we can get behind the lads as in the days of yore; the away following is beyond compare in its excellence but we can turn SJP into a bear pit, where there is rage and venom in every nook and cranny but it is turned against the opposition rather than in ourselves. Its up to all of us.

 

Then lets do it but its going to take all of the message boards and all the fanzines to get together and make a united (pun intended) stance.

[JawD 31]

Aye, wont happen though. Shame, but thats the times we're in. It takes or would take a good display or a fighting display to get the crowd behind the team. Much of what happens on the terraces reflects whats happening on the pitch. Fanzines, message boards alike can try as much as they will to muster the troops (crowd), but it needs to start on the pitch to get an effect.

 

One thing that Sam does need to realise is that we aint fools. He can only use his "best start for ages" line so many times (already too many in my eye, and factually wrong anyway).

 

I would still like to hear him explain some of the things he has done. Not that he needs to or should.

[peasepud 59]

I would still like to hear him explain some of the things he has done. Not that he needs to or should.

 

I think he does need to and should. If he'd just picked one player over another then fair enough but nobody you speak to can understand the majority of decisions on Saturday, normally you'll get one or two that say "I would have done that" or "good choice" but ive heard or read that nowhere this time. If hes got a reason then maybe people will understand but at the moment it appears to be the work of a madman.

[Jusoda Kid 1]

I'm willing to lead the march like...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Pud's shoulders

[Dr Gloom 19737]

Not sure I agree with the Robson bit at all though.

 

If he were to be sacked then the end of that season would have been best, but given that he was hamstrung and undermined by FFS from at least April of the prior season he was in a largely no win situation.

 

Sacking him when they did though was utterly stupid, although by that point FFS had undermined him to the point where in fairness he probably had little choice. Still I would say that had Robson been allowed to finish that season we'd have finished at least as highly as we did.

 

IIRC many fans were baying for Robson's blood at the time as well, which shows how deeply the issues in this club run.

 

agree. we never should have sacked robson. that's when the rot started.

[Guest alex]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

[Fop 1]

Not sure I agree with the Robson bit at all though.

 

If he were to be sacked then the end of that season would have been best, but given that he was hamstrung and undermined by FFS from at least April of the prior season he was in a largely no win situation.

 

Sacking him when they did though was utterly stupid, although by that point FFS had undermined him to the point where in fairness he probably had little choice. Still I would say that had Robson been allowed to finish that season we'd have finished at least as highly as we did.

 

IIRC many fans were baying for Robson's blood at the time as well, which shows how deeply the issues in this club run.

 

agree. we never should have sacked robson. that's when the rot started.

 

Aye, I don't know that he had that many seasons left in him, but doing what we did (undermining him completely then sacking him at about the worst possible time) was utter madness.

 

Especially as he may have taken a DoF or power sharing role, if it had been handled correctly.

[Baggio 0]

Robson's time was up and Shepherd coming out and telling everyone that his contract wouldn't be extended beyond the following Summer was what made him lose the dressing room.

 

Robson should have gone in the Summer when Liverpool moved Houllier on.

[Guest alex]

Robson's time was up and Shepherd coming out and telling everyone that his contract wouldn't be extended beyond the following Summer was what made him lose the dressing room.

 

Robson should have gone in the Summer when Liverpool moved Houllier on.

He should have probably gone in the summer you mention but once he didn't we'd have been better off keeping him for that season imo. I don't know why Shepherd made the statement he did though. It was crazy in retrospect.

[Fop 1]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

 

Well it was reasonably vocal minority from what I remember, or at least there seemed to be a ground swell of "well it's time for him to go" if not "Robson out!!!111" sentiment (although you're right that it was blood in the water media speculation that was maybe fuelling that).

 

But what happened to Ferguson just goes to show what happens when a manager is undermined (even if more indirectly undermined in his case), in Robson's case it was it was more like a systematic campaign from those above that not unsurprisingly resulted in disaster.

[Dr Gloom 19737]

Robson's time was up and Shepherd coming out and telling everyone that his contract wouldn't be extended beyond the following Summer was what made him lose the dressing room.

 

Robson should have gone in the Summer when Liverpool moved Houllier on.

 

bollocks. bobby could and should have been allowed to continue the very good job he did for us. so we finished 5th instead of 4th and had a nightmare in the champions league, but the man turned us from midtable nobodies into a fucking good team. we can only dream of sacking a manager after finishing 5th now.

 

shepherd sacking him, especially in the manner that he did, was a disgrace after the way robson tunred us around. and we've paid the price for his fuck up the last few years.

 

robson didn't deserve to go out the way he did. he was a victim of his own success. he raised expectation levels and paid the price. no way he should have been sacked though.

[Fop 1]

Robson's time was up and Shepherd coming out and telling everyone that his contract wouldn't be extended beyond the following Summer was what made him lose the dressing room.

 

Robson should have gone in the Summer when Liverpool moved Houllier on.

 

That was the "best" time to sack him, yes, but largely he been undermined for much of that season to lead to that point.

 

What happened in the summer and the beginning of the next season as nothing short of

 

 

But even then if they'd managed to stop the self harm process and backed him for the rest of that season I'm sure we'd have finished at least as high as we did and would have been in a much better position all around to move on from there.

[Guest alex]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

 

Well it was reasonably vocal minority from what I remember, or at least there seemed to be a ground swell of "well it's time for him to go" if not "Robson out!!!111" sentiment (although you're right that it was blood in the water media speculation that was maybe fuelling that).

 

But what happened to Ferguson just goes to show what happens when a manager is undermined (even if more indirectly undermined in his case), in Robson's case it was it was more like a systematic campaign from those above that not unsurprisingly resulted in disaster.

I think undermining Robson was the real problem. I think he had to go that summer (the one at the end of the season in which he was sacked). He could have arguably gone the one before. I'll tell you why - I think he'd lost the dressing room a little bit and I think that was made worse by Shepherd's announcement rather than the announcement being a catalyst for it. I guess there were already discipline problems and Robson finally lost what little authority he had. Sad, I know. I also think his age was a major obstacle to him staying much longer.

[westendlad 0]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

 

not sure if I agree with that Alex, there was a lot of people booing at the end of the Wolves game when we only finished 5th.

 

With hindsight, I would say he shouldn't have been sacked, but thats because none of his replacements were anywhere near as good.

[Guest alex]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

 

not sure if I agree with that Alex, there was a lot of people booing at the end of the Wolves game when we only finished 5th.

 

With hindsight, I would say he shouldn't have been sacked, but thats because none of his replacements were anywhere near as good.

I don't see booing directly equates to wanting a manager out but I see where you're coming from. Also, the timing of the sacking limited the replacements available too (when Souness got the job).

[Fop 1]

I agree Robson shouldn't have been sacked when he was and I think we'd have come about 5th again and would have had every chance of winning that year's Uefa Cup. Just to pick up on the point about fans baying for Robson's blood and that being indicative of how deeply the issues in the club run - Those wanting Robson out were a minority and Man Utd. fans were calling for Ferguson's head when they had a poor start to the season a few years ago. Ironically it was the year he said he'd go in the summer. All clubs have fickle fans and I don't really think that's as big a problem here as it's made out to be in the media.

 

Well it was reasonably vocal minority from what I remember, or at least there seemed to be a ground swell of "well it's time for him to go" if not "Robson out!!!111" sentiment (although you're right that it was blood in the water media speculation that was maybe fuelling that).

 

But what happened to Ferguson just goes to show what happens when a manager is undermined (even if more indirectly undermined in his case), in Robson's case it was it was more like a systematic campaign from those above that not unsurprisingly resulted in disaster.

I think undermining Robson was the real problem. I think he had to go that summer (the one at the end of the season in which he was sacked). He could have arguably gone the one before. I'll tell you why - I think he'd lost the dressing room a little bit and I think that was made worse by Shepherd's announcement rather than the announcement being a catalyst for it. I guess there were already discipline problems and Robson finally lost what little authority he had. Sad, I know. I also think his age was a major obstacle to him staying much longer.

 

I think the dressing room issue was down to the undermining that had already started (combined with the huge brat pack mentality of those players), plus I suspect Shearer wasn't helping due to his opposition to Robson resting him for more important games.

 

And Robson was cannier with controlling such players than outright totalitarianism (which with Souness really only resulted in breaking the team to bits).

 

But I don't think it was age as such, although it must have been getting to him by that point, and without the undermining that had gone on I think his last full season in charge and indeed the season he was sacked in could have gone much better, with maybe him moving into a shared role or DoF role IF things had been handled well she season after or so.

 

But far too late for that sort of thing now.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Under our last regime the club was blatantly run day to day which is why the Robson situation was handled so badly. A well run club would have sat down with Sir Berb, talked sensibly abut the fact that things were going well but like it or not his age was going to become an issue. Therefore, Sir Berb could have recommended a younger man to bring in and eventually take over, with Berb moving up to an Ambassador role. Could and should have been done, biggest mistake Fat Fred ever made imo and showed why he was truly useless at running the club.

[Dr Gloom 19737]

if this board is any true relection of general mood among our support i'd say those that wanted robson to stay were in the minority.