Kinnear: you'll change your toon about Keegan

[Park Life 70]

Del pede, sorry I haven't replied to you before, I genuinely haven't seen a post from you that would require a response.

 

I understand what you are saying and I think we are in essence saying the same thing.

 

I believe KK did have the final say in whether the players he was presented with signed or not. The problem with that is a manager is never going to turn down a player. Why would he?

 

The real question is did KK agree to work within Ashleys policy of buying young players with potential that will appreciate in value or not? If he did then his demands to sign high profile names would be out of order and he would be in the wrong.

 

There is also the question of reducing the wage bill. Was KK made aware of that or not? There are a few players at Newcastle who have not been playing regularly who are on mega money, it is in the clubs long term interest to put a sensible wage structure in place.

 

All of this stuff needs to be answered before anybody is condemned.

 

Most on here have already made up their minds though.

 

Plenty of managers have said no to players. Either because they weren't needed or weren't good enough. Keegan didn't have the chance to say no to Xisco and Nacho. Players he didn't want. He wanted Warnock, and he wanted Malouda, and he wanted Lassana Diarra. That is of course allegedly, but it makes sense regarding to where the squad is weak. The club tried to sell Barton to Portsmouth, and Keegan didn't want it, since he said he would support Barton, and the squad was thin allready. Furthermore, Barton texted Sky Sports to say, he didn't wanna leave Newcastle, so that is basically cut and dry.

 

I don't think Keegan said yes to work within this policy that was only maked clear, after Keegan left, and Ashley poured his heart out. Newcastle publicised on their own website, that they would back keegan in the coming transfer window. That he would have a kitty available. That proved not to be right. He didn't oppose it either, 'cause it would be a sensible thing to do. Get young players in on the cheap, that are players for the future. But you still have to maintain the current squad, or the future might look bleak. Keegan said that, the club appeared to agree, but it didn't happen.

 

Regarding putting a sensible wage structure in place, you say it yourself. Long-term! It wasn't that hard to put in place. Don't be an idiot when discussing wages with players. Don't offer them retarded amount of money. But you still have to pay the players, that are allready on contract, eventhough they are dead wood. But you can still sign good player, without paying them the same wages as Owen, Viduka and Smith. Reducing the wage bill should have been done over time. Not in one window.

 

At the end of the days, this is just a case of conection the dots. Look in the news archive on the official club website, and you'll see the club contradicting it self.

I'm not making Keegan out to be a saint. Maybe we all would have been better of, if he had decided to stay, and fight it from within the club. But it would never had been a fair battle, trying to win games, with players you didn't sign, and also with Llambas wanting to smack you.

 

There are so much evidence, that points out that the club has contradicted itself. So no matter what Keegan did, the club has also lied to supporters of Newcastle. People have been mislead, and now they're being feed bullshit stories, through a middleman.

 

So I get what you are saying. People are quick to back Keegan, but it's more than that. They dismiss what the club has done.

 

But thanks for a well thought reply, Danny

 

Well summed up.

[Park Life 70]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/m...day/7567074.stm

 

Unfortunately I can't find the Sky interview from the same match in that one I'm pretty sure he says that Ashley is backing him. He doesn't look like a man who is 2 weeks away from walking. He doesn't seem terribly bothered about Wise or Jimenez and is praising their players.

 

He was still trying to play the system I guess, and at that point I'm sure he was still being promised to keep Milner, and still get 3-4 quality players in................ and not for them to try and sell Owen and Barton out from under him too.

 

But again where does he "lie"?

 

 

It also makes the "oooo Keegan did something wrong" rubbish even more laughable, because clearly whatever background issues he had, he was still committed to make the club a success.

 

 

 

And yes, I mean zero comms since he walked. I understand he's probably protecting his own interests, but that argument could also apply to anyone including Ashley.

 

That's just legal issues, with the best will in the world I wouldn't expect anyone to speak about stuff with the lawyers circling like vultures. You'll have to wait till after that side is sorted before anything like that happens.

 

 

Wasn't KK told Schweinstieger had been signed to oil the Milner move and remove his reservations?

[Park Life 70]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/m...day/7567074.stm

 

Unfortunately I can't find the Sky interview from the same match in that one I'm pretty sure he says that Ashley is backing him. He doesn't look like a man who is 2 weeks away from walking. He doesn't seem terribly bothered about Wise or Jimenez and is praising their players.

 

He was still trying to play the system I guess, and at that point I'm sure he was still being promised to keep Milner, and still get 3-4 quality players in................ and not for them to try and sell Owen and Barton out from under him too.

 

But again where does he "lie"?

 

 

It also makes the "oooo Keegan did something wrong" rubbish even more laughable, because clearly whatever background issues he had, he was still committed to make the club a success.

 

 

 

And yes, I mean zero comms since he walked. I understand he's probably protecting his own interests, but that argument could also apply to anyone including Ashley.

 

That's just legal issues, with the best will in the world I wouldn't expect anyone to speak about stuff with the lawyers circling like vultures. You'll have to wait till after that side is sorted before anything like that happens.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that Keegan had no reservations at the point where he gave that interview, yet he says nothing. All he can say is how great the new players are. I believe he shares some responsibility for allowing season ticket holders to believe they were buying into a glorious new future as he was still pedaling the "everything's rosey" line.

 

You can't have it both ways with the wall of silence. Either you accept that Ashley can't speak either or you have to criticise Keegan too.

If he was doing that (which I don't think he was) he wasn't very good at it going off the ST sales, was he? Keegan was reticent about the future of the club imo which put people off Ashley's buy 3 years or face a massive price hike idea. A lot of people just decided 'fuck it'.

As for the last bit, I agree. It's fair to say neither side can really comment on what happened if legal proceedings are in place. But I don't think the club have been silent. The owner has in the main. Although the one big interview he did was, it transpires, a pack of lies. But the club has had plenty to say, anonymously or via Kinnear, about who is going to buy the club (more lies), the 'It is a fact' rubbish, Keegan's return being imminent with new owners (funny how that never happened), etc., etc. A lot of what has come out post-this debacle contradicts what came out of the club before. That's why I'm tending towards Ashley and his cronies being the real problem. I appreciate what you've being saying about Keegan leaving us in a mess, especially with the timing etc. btw. Although I think he must have felt he'd been really stitched-up and felt he had little option. Wenger and Ferguson agreed with him too.

 

 

Anyone basically who understands anything about football knows KK's position had become untenable. People slingling mud at KK ought to take into account that it would actually have been far easier for him to stay picking up his £100k a month than look for confrontation.

[Fop 1]

Wasn't KK told Schweinstieger had been signed to oil the Milner move and remove his reservations?

 

Buy all accounts he was basically promised a couple of players and then 2 proven premiership ones for Milner's cash, none of which appeared. Add to that Owen and Barton (and even Smith, bless him ) being touted and I reckon it would be a rare manager that wouldn't throw his toys out of the pram at that point.

[Asprilla 96]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/m...day/7567074.stm

 

Unfortunately I can't find the Sky interview from the same match in that one I'm pretty sure he says that Ashley is backing him. He doesn't look like a man who is 2 weeks away from walking. He doesn't seem terribly bothered about Wise or Jimenez and is praising their players.

 

He was still trying to play the system I guess, and at that point I'm sure he was still being promised to keep Milner, and still get 3-4 quality players in................ and not for them to try and sell Owen and Barton out from under him too.

 

But again where does he "lie"?

 

 

It also makes the "oooo Keegan did something wrong" rubbish even more laughable, because clearly whatever background issues he had, he was still committed to make the club a success.

 

 

 

And yes, I mean zero comms since he walked. I understand he's probably protecting his own interests, but that argument could also apply to anyone including Ashley.

 

That's just legal issues, with the best will in the world I wouldn't expect anyone to speak about stuff with the lawyers circling like vultures. You'll have to wait till after that side is sorted before anything like that happens.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that Keegan had no reservations at the point where he gave that interview, yet he says nothing. All he can say is how great the new players are. I believe he shares some responsibility for allowing season ticket holders to believe they were buying into a glorious new future as he was still pedaling the "everything's rosey" line.

 

You can't have it both ways with the wall of silence. Either you accept that Ashley can't speak either or you have to criticise Keegan too.

If he was doing that (which I don't think he was) he wasn't very good at it going off the ST sales, was he? Keegan was reticent about the future of the club imo which put people off Ashley's buy 3 years or face a massive price hike idea. A lot of people just decided 'fuck it'.

As for the last bit, I agree. It's fair to say neither side can really comment on what happened if legal proceedings are in place. But I don't think the club have been silent. The owner has in the main. Although the one big interview he did was, it transpires, a pack of lies. But the club has had plenty to say, anonymously or via Kinnear, about who is going to buy the club (more lies), the 'It is a fact' rubbish, Keegan's return being imminent with new owners (funny how that never happened), etc., etc. A lot of what has come out post-this debacle contradicts what came out of the club before. That's why I'm tending towards Ashley and his cronies being the real problem. I appreciate what you've being saying about Keegan leaving us in a mess, especially with the timing etc. btw. Although I think he must have felt he'd been really stitched-up and felt he had little option. Wenger and Ferguson agreed with him too.

 

 

Anyone basically who understands anything about football knows KK's position had become untenable. People slingling mud at KK ought to take into account that it would actually have been far easier for him to stay picking up his £100k a month than look for confrontation.

Peasepud and Alex, you make some good points, several of which I agree with...I'll have to respond later when I have more time.

 

 

13Kane, I don't think you can pull that argument here. I'm not defending Ashley but I maintain that with Owen's contract unsigned and on the back of a promising start to the season, I'm of the belief that Keegan's actions have done the club damage.

 

Please understand that I hold Ashley et al most to blame but I feel that Keegan walking out when he did has made the situation worse.

[Fop 1]

Peasepud and Alex, you make some good points, several of which I agree with...I'll have to respond later when I have more time.

 

 

13Kane, I don't think you can pull that argument here. I'm not defending Ashley but I maintain that with Owen's contract unsigned and on the back of a promising start to the season, I'm of the belief that Keegan's actions have done the club damage.

 

Please understand that I hold Ashley et al most to blame but I feel that Keegan walking out when he did has made the situation worse.

 

 

Of course it made it worse, but that doesn't necessarily mean Keegan did anything "wrong".

 

Like I said name me a current Premiership manager (beside Kinnear ) that would have stayed in that situation? Curbishley walked over less.

[acrossthepond 703]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/m...day/7567074.stm

 

Unfortunately I can't find the Sky interview from the same match in that one I'm pretty sure he says that Ashley is backing him. He doesn't look like a man who is 2 weeks away from walking. He doesn't seem terribly bothered about Wise or Jimenez and is praising their players.

 

He was still trying to play the system I guess, and at that point I'm sure he was still being promised to keep Milner, and still get 3-4 quality players in................ and not for them to try and sell Owen and Barton out from under him too.

 

But again where does he "lie"?

 

 

It also makes the "oooo Keegan did something wrong" rubbish even more laughable, because clearly whatever background issues he had, he was still committed to make the club a success.

 

 

 

And yes, I mean zero comms since he walked. I understand he's probably protecting his own interests, but that argument could also apply to anyone including Ashley.

 

That's just legal issues, with the best will in the world I wouldn't expect anyone to speak about stuff with the lawyers circling like vultures. You'll have to wait till after that side is sorted before anything like that happens.

 

 

I find it hard to believe that Keegan had no reservations at the point where he gave that interview, yet he says nothing. All he can say is how great the new players are. I believe he shares some responsibility for allowing season ticket holders to believe they were buying into a glorious new future as he was still pedaling the "everything's rosey" line.

 

You can't have it both ways with the wall of silence. Either you accept that Ashley can't speak either or you have to criticise Keegan too.

If he was doing that (which I don't think he was) he wasn't very good at it going off the ST sales, was he? Keegan was reticent about the future of the club imo which put people off Ashley's buy 3 years or face a massive price hike idea. A lot of people just decided 'fuck it'.

As for the last bit, I agree. It's fair to say neither side can really comment on what happened if legal proceedings are in place. But I don't think the club have been silent. The owner has in the main. Although the one big interview he did was, it transpires, a pack of lies. But the club has had plenty to say, anonymously or via Kinnear, about who is going to buy the club (more lies), the 'It is a fact' rubbish, Keegan's return being imminent with new owners (funny how that never happened), etc., etc. A lot of what has come out post-this debacle contradicts what came out of the club before. That's why I'm tending towards Ashley and his cronies being the real problem. I appreciate what you've being saying about Keegan leaving us in a mess, especially with the timing etc. btw. Although I think he must have felt he'd been really stitched-up and felt he had little option. Wenger and Ferguson agreed with him too.

 

 

Anyone basically who understands anything about football knows KK's position had become untenable. People slingling mud at KK ought to take into account that it would actually have been far easier for him to stay picking up his £100k a month than look for confrontation.

 

Here we are.

 

If Keegan were really the money-grubbing mercenary you try to make him out to be, he could've easily just collected his cheques and the hell with the club, fans, etc. He knows his value to us and he knows he could've easily stayed on for years as manager even if we were stagnating, bringing in more of Wise and co's shit players, and generally going downhill. But because he cares about NUFC and its supporters, he did what he believed was right.