Park Life 70 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I really like him as a player, I like the way he lopes back and saves difficult situations and I was very impressed with his cut back for the goal the other day. He is very energetic and puts in good shifts. But.................Seems to lack any kind of goal threat and not really that creative. Ironically as soon as Zoggy came on he casually lays on Martins from a very similar position that Guti normally haunts yet for 70 odd min failed to produce anything. Should we be playing him in the middle instead of Gutherie? Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34166 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Hes had a poor couple of games and looked very south American for their first goal. Should and could have nipped that attack in the bud but didn't seem too fussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Iv thought of this but then who do we play on the right? Do we then have Zog and duffers on the wings? Nice thought but i doubt it would ever materialise... But i see your point with guti, he is lively, tracks back, good with ball at his feet (most of the time) but he does seem to lack that vision, that guile and craft to pick a pass? Its actually starting to become a worry! I would not have brought him off today though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Iv thought of this but then who do we play on the right? Do we then have Zog and duffers on the wings? Nice thought but i doubt it would ever materialise... But i see your point with guti, he is lively, tracks back, good with ball at his feet (most of the time) but he does seem to lack that vision, that guile and craft to pick a pass? Its actually starting to become a worry! I would not have brought him off today though. This is what I'd play... ................Gibbon....... Beye...Colo...bassong....Zoggy .......Butt............Barton...... ................Guti................. ...............Owen............... ......Fungshwela.....Martins... **I've given up on Duff (get the ball run sideways). Ricky (get the ball give it away 10 times). Edited November 15, 2008 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Iv thought of this but then who do we play on the right? Do we then have Zog and duffers on the wings? Nice thought but i doubt it would ever materialise... But i see your point with guti, he is lively, tracks back, good with ball at his feet (most of the time) but he does seem to lack that vision, that guile and craft to pick a pass? Its actually starting to become a worry! I would not have brought him off today though. This is what I'd play... ................Gibbon....... Beye...Colo...bassong....Zoggy .......Butt............Barton...... ................Guti................. ...............Owen............... ......Fungshwela.....Martins... **I've given up on Duff (get the ball run sideways). Ricky (get the ball give it away 10 times). Parky mate i respect you and all that but NO Zoggy needs to be in a more advanced position to maximise his impact, i to have gave up on duff so charlie takes his place. Id stick with the 442 with zog and jonas on the flanks just try and encourage jonas to thread through the passes. In his defence martins and strola's movement today was poor until zog came on when he found martins, in fairness that was one of few good runs by oba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 Iv thought of this but then who do we play on the right? Do we then have Zog and duffers on the wings? Nice thought but i doubt it would ever materialise... But i see your point with guti, he is lively, tracks back, good with ball at his feet (most of the time) but he does seem to lack that vision, that guile and craft to pick a pass? Its actually starting to become a worry! I would not have brought him off today though. This is what I'd play... ................Gibbon....... Beye...Colo...bassong....Zoggy .......Butt............Barton...... ................Guti................. ...............Owen............... ......Fungshwela.....Martins... **I've given up on Duff (get the ball run sideways). Ricky (get the ball give it away 10 times). Parky mate i respect you and all that but NO Zoggy needs to be in a more advanced position to maximise his impact, i to have gave up on duff so charlie takes his place. Id stick with the 442 with zog and jonas on the flanks just try and encourage jonas to thread through the passes. In his defence martins and strola's movement today was poor until zog came on when he found martins, in fairness that was one of few good runs by oba. I've got two holding players precisely (as you say) Zoggy and Beye can maraud. A team in our situation in this league with these players simply can't play with two wide players we aren't good enough and teams as today and as against Sunderland stream through our middle. The first rule of the Italian coaching manual is make teams play round the side if your team is on inferior quality. [possiblymadeup/]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 Iv thought of this but then who do we play on the right? Do we then have Zog and duffers on the wings? Nice thought but i doubt it would ever materialise... But i see your point with guti, he is lively, tracks back, good with ball at his feet (most of the time) but he does seem to lack that vision, that guile and craft to pick a pass? Its actually starting to become a worry! I would not have brought him off today though. This is what I'd play... ................Gibbon....... Beye...Colo...bassong....Zoggy .......Butt............Barton...... ................Guti................. ...............Owen............... ......Fungshwela.....Martins... **I've given up on Duff (get the ball run sideways). Ricky (get the ball give it away 10 times). Parky mate i respect you and all that but NO Zoggy needs to be in a more advanced position to maximise his impact, i to have gave up on duff so charlie takes his place. Id stick with the 442 with zog and jonas on the flanks just try and encourage jonas to thread through the passes. In his defence martins and strola's movement today was poor until zog came on when he found martins, in fairness that was one of few good runs by oba. I've got two holding players precisely (as you say) Zoggy and Beye can maraud. A team in our situation in this league with these players simply can't play with two wide players we aren't good enough and teams as today and as against Sunderland stream through our middle. The first rule of the Italian coaching manual is make teams play round the side if your team is on inferior quality. [possiblymadeup/]. I see the method in your madness or is that method in your manual? haha Thing is Butt is to old and slow to sit deep and if you play barton there you mite as well tie his bootlaces together, he needs to get forward. The big problem is the fact we have little creativity in the middle which we've all been saying for ages now. Personally i think barton and guthrie in the middle would be a better pairing than butt and barton. Theres just so many problems atm tho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34166 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12736 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Personally...id of done the same with zog and enrique but it would of been duff id of brought off or strola...Hyperthetically speaking though as if i had of then strola wouldnt of got owen in with his shot. I just thought Jonas although wastefull still brought more to the table than duffers who ran into alleys all game long. Zog for duffers against chelski. I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Where as Butt is untidy for the full 90mins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34166 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Personally...id of done the same with zog and enrique but it would of been duff id of brought off or strola...Hyperthetically speaking though as if i had of then strola wouldnt of got owen in with his shot. I just thought Jonas although wastefull still brought more to the table than duffers who ran into alleys all game long. Zog for duffers against chelski. I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Where as Butt is untidy for the full 90mins Shola looked enough of a threat up front to deserve being kept on, I thought. Besides we needed bodies up front, so making a striker for striker sub would have been a mistake. Duff was looking for the ball and looked like he might do something at the time the subs were made (I thought), whilst Jonas looked like he'd had enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Personally...id of done the same with zog and enrique but it would of been duff id of brought off or strola...Hyperthetically speaking though as if i had of then strola wouldnt of got owen in with his shot. I just thought Jonas although wastefull still brought more to the table than duffers who ran into alleys all game long. Zog for duffers against chelski. I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Where as Butt is untidy for the full 90mins Shola looked enough of a threat up front to deserve being kept on, I thought. Besides we needed bodies up front, so making a striker for striker sub would have been a mistake. Duff was looking for the ball and looked like he might do something at the time the subs were made (I thought), whilst Jonas looked like he'd had enough. Your right im wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 (edited) Personally I would have bought Zoggy on for Duff and Owen on for Ricky. It's basically textbook when against 10 men you bring your most undefender like defender off. Edited November 15, 2008 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34166 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Personally...id of done the same with zog and enrique but it would of been duff id of brought off or strola...Hyperthetically speaking though as if i had of then strola wouldnt of got owen in with his shot. I just thought Jonas although wastefull still brought more to the table than duffers who ran into alleys all game long. Zog for duffers against chelski. I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Where as Butt is untidy for the full 90mins Shola looked enough of a threat up front to deserve being kept on, I thought. Besides we needed bodies up front, so making a striker for striker sub would have been a mistake. Duff was looking for the ball and looked like he might do something at the time the subs were made (I thought), whilst Jonas looked like he'd had enough. Your right im wrong If you say so. I mean I was trying to have a conversation with you about it, but if you want to act like a bairn, that's your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 I would not have brought him off today though. Really? Cos he was having a fucking shocker for me like. Who would you have brought off? Personally...id of done the same with zog and enrique but it would of been duff id of brought off or strola...Hyperthetically speaking though as if i had of then strola wouldnt of got owen in with his shot. I just thought Jonas although wastefull still brought more to the table than duffers who ran into alleys all game long. Zog for duffers against chelski. I don't buy Guthrie and Barton being stronger than Butt and Barton as well. Guthrie is tidy enough but only seems to be in the game for an hour or so before dissappearing. Where as Butt is untidy for the full 90mins Shola looked enough of a threat up front to deserve being kept on, I thought. Besides we needed bodies up front, so making a striker for striker sub would have been a mistake. Duff was looking for the ball and looked like he might do something at the time the subs were made (I thought), whilst Jonas looked like he'd had enough. Your right im wrong If you say so. I mean I was trying to have a conversation with you about it, but if you want to act like a bairn, that's your choice. Im not acting like a bairn just tired of a dead end debate tbh gemmil I just felt even though jonas hadnt been at his best, he is more direct than duff, in the same way charlie is. I dont get where shola was looking a threat other than to the people in the crowd, he shooting was woeful apart from the ONE he got on target which owen scored from the rebound. Duff and shola were poor in my opinion. Just out of curiousity gemmil what would your starting 11 be against chelsea? Duff in the side? Strola on the pitch? What about taylor and enrique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. My weapon is remains sheathed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Couldn't agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 16, 2008 Author Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Couldn't agree more. We saw yesterday why he doesn't shoot much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 Looked like he couldn't give a fuck yesterday imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 699 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Don't agree. Certainly he's been poor the last two games but he was excellent against Villa and all season has looked our only real source of creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Don't agree. Certainly he's been poor the last two games but he was excellent against Villa and all season has looked our only real source of creativity. He's energetic but I'm not sure he's been that creative so far. Couple of nice touches but more of a blue collar player than anything else yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 If Jonas hadn't have had such a good game against Man Utd at the start of the season the knives would be well and truly out for him because he's done fuck all since. Don't agree. Certainly he's been poor the last two games but he was excellent against Villa and all season has looked our only real source of creativity. I agree he's the only one at times with any energy or drive who actually takes us forward, and he constantly wins us freekicks and gets opposition defenders on a booking. He was class vs Manu, excellent against Coventry, and even if they're weaker opposition the fact that after 120 mins of football he was still running back and forth the length of the pitch to help def and attack tells you alot. And the games at home we had while he was out injured you could see the team was suffering without him. Against Wigan he was trying, and running at them but with nobody at all to pass to eventually he ran out of options, but he still manged to win freekicks which as ever we wasted. I agree with people saying we need more direct assists from him, but when you look at the off the ball movment and runs of Martins and Shola then who is he supposed to be picking out at times! Give Jonas a run without injury with a fully fit Owen in the team and you'll see more from him. His weakness is he looks to be pretty bad at shooting, having no real power when he does actually have a crack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted November 16, 2008 Share Posted November 16, 2008 His weakness is he looks to be pretty bad at shooting, having no real power when he does actually have a crack This what really bugs me. Not only to we have players who can't pass we have players whose shooting is woeful. How the fuck these blokes get to this level without such a basic skill is beyond me. It's also beyond me that when a player has an obvious weakness (eg Andy Cole and heading) why the hell it isn't worked on extensively in training. What the hell do they do "all day"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano 0 Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 His weakness is he looks to be pretty bad at shooting, having no real power when he does actually have a crack This what really bugs me. Not only to we have players who can't pass we have players whose shooting is woeful. How the fuck these blokes get to this level without such a basic skill is beyond me. It's also beyond me that when a player has an obvious weakness (eg Andy Cole and heading) why the hell it isn't worked on extensively in training. What the hell do they do "all day"? Totally agree mate, im no pro but i can spread the ball and twat it hard and accuratly...it does make me wonder how they made it, and more so how they justify MASSIVE wages and fee's! To jonas's defence, he was the player with the most assists last season in la liga and im sure i heard that he was resposible for 90% of guiza's goal for mallorca last season too. I just think that we havnt seen the best of him, worrying thing is we've seen plenty of drive but the only glimpse of creativity from him was squaring the ball for martins against villa. I think with a good stint with oba and owen upfront we will start to see more from him though. Hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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