Police to be armed with stun guns

[Fop 1]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

"Agenda".

Truth; if you don't know how to play the system you'll be steamrollered by it.

 

 

Unfortunately most people that need the system to be a deterrent to them, also know exactly how to play the system.

[ewerk 26186]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

 

I'd agree with that too. I think we're already seeing that in terms of Judges going towards the more severe end of current tariffs but whether that in itself will be adequate...? I don't know that we're seeing any greater deterrent effect coming through yet anyway.

 

I wouldnt be averse to going higher on sentencing on this either for the record.

 

Nor would I. Imo people carrying knives when they go out for a pint are animals and need to be treated as such.

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

 

It wouldn't be rigorously applied anyway while the jails are still full up.

[Fop 1]

It wouldn't be rigorously applied anyway while the jails are still full up.

And it would fill jails up, the USA's 3 strikes policy was actually very effective (and would be here too), unfortunately it simply couldn't be ran for long enough to have a genuine cultural effect, because it filled the jails to bursting point very quickly.

[Guest alex]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

"Agenda".

Truth; if you don't know how to play the system you'll be steamrollered by it.

 

 

Unfortunately most people that need the system to be a deterrent to them, also know exactly how to play the system.

It was more the way you were blaming the police and the judiciary (to my mind anyway) for their execution of, as yet unannounced, potential future government policy. There may be some truth to what you say btw. But it's another example of you criticising everything and offering nothing constructive in return. Which a lot of us do, tbf. But there's nothing particularly clever about it.

[Park Life 70]

[Guest alex]

Does anyone think the carrying of weapons has become more commonplace in recent years by the way, just to address a slightly different but related question?

 

If so then there is clearly a valid debate about how you equip an effective modern police force.

 

Referring to the equipment per se rather than the deployment of said apparatus.

 

 

Agree. There needs to be tougher legislation against the carrying of knives etc..

 

I'd agree with that too. I think we're already seeing that in terms of Judges going towards the more severe end of current tariffs but whether that in itself will be adequate...? I don't know that we're seeing any greater deterrent effect coming through yet anyway.

 

I wouldnt be averse to going higher on sentencing on this either for the record.

 

Nor would I. Imo people carrying knives when they go out for a pint are animals and need to be treated as such.

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

 

It wouldn't be rigorously applied anyway while the jails are still full up.

Build more then. The builders are all out of work anyway at the minute

[Fop 1]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

"Agenda".

Truth; if you don't know how to play the system you'll be steamrollered by it.

 

 

Unfortunately most people that need the system to be a deterrent to them, also know exactly how to play the system.

It was more the way you were blaming the police and the judiciary (to my mind anyway) for their execution of, as yet unannounced, potential future government policy. There may be some truth to what you say btw. But it's another example of you criticising everything and offering nothing constructive in return. Which a lot of us do, tbf. But there's nothing particularly clever about it.

So I'm right and you agree, but you're going to argue about it anyway.

[Fop 1]

 

That's not torture though that's....... erm..... Law and Order?

[Park Life 70]

11yr old tazered.

 

Some woman (plant?) saying she wouldn't mind her child tazered.

[Park Life 70]

 

That's not torture though that's....... erm..... Law and Order?

 

Is electrocuting someone in the neck safe? Fuckin hell!

[2bias 3]

I agree the police need to be armed properly. Stun guns wont help

[Fop 1]

11yr old tazered.

 

Some woman (plant?) saying she wouldn't mind her child tazered.

Been a few kids tasered (by officialdom) in the USA, the youngest was 6 or 7 or something.

[Guest alex]

Ditto. It's exactly the sort of thing there should be heavy sentences for. There'd actually be widespread public support for it as well.

Except the only people that would get a heavy sentence would be the people carrying a leatherman when they happened to be mugged (and was stupid enough to plead not guilty, believing they were in the right).

"Agenda".

Truth; if you don't know how to play the system you'll be steamrollered by it.

 

 

Unfortunately most people that need the system to be a deterrent to them, also know exactly how to play the system.

It was more the way you were blaming the police and the judiciary (to my mind anyway) for their execution of, as yet unannounced, potential future government policy. There may be some truth to what you say btw. But it's another example of you criticising everything and offering nothing constructive in return. Which a lot of us do, tbf. But there's nothing particularly clever about it.

So I'm right and you agree, but you're going to argue about it anyway.

Do you want a proper debate on this btw? I agree that some people, who are naive enough to think that the police are there to protect the innocent and aren't governed by figures as much as any other public service, might get done for carry something as innocent as a Swiss Army knife which they'd left in their pocket. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen very often and it wouldn't make me hesitate about wanting tougher sentences for people carrying offensive weapons.

[manc-mag 1]

I’d actually be interested to see whether, from a psychological point of view there was evidence to suggest that officers would be less likely to discharge a taser gun than say cs spray in identical circumstances. Personally I think the fact that using a taser was more like discharging a firearm (gun) would actually make me less inclined to use it than cs gas. Police guns are of course discharged extremely rarely.

 

On the one hand, the fact that the police themselves don’t seem to want them as standard issue could be seen as evidence of that and it’s another thing that needs to be taken account of if you’re having a sensible, objective debate on the subject.

[Fop 1]

 

That's not torture though that's....... erm..... Law and Order?

 

Is electrocuting someone in the neck safe? Fuckin hell!

Apparently so (tasers have already been used like that in the UK during the trial, to force already subdued people to further comply).

 

Well the UN disagree, but who are they?

 

Of course if someone in the Yemen might, maybe threaten to do it to someone (maybe), then that IS torture, of course.

[Park Life 70]

Players and supporters jump in to safe this geezer from a pounding.

[Renton 17626]

Isn't there a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of a knife or did I make that up?

Sounds way off tbh.

 

Yeah, I was thinking of guns I think, or maybe got confused with a call for a 5 year mandatory sentence. Indy.

[Fop 1]

I agree that some people, who are naive enough to think that the police are there to protect the innocent and aren't governed by figures as much as any other public service, might get done for carry something as innocent as a Swiss Army knife which they'd left in their pocket. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen very often and it wouldn't make me hesitate about wanting tougher sentences for people carrying offensive weapons.

Until it happened to you or someone you know, and the people that did need it still wouldn't be worried as unless it was something ridiculous like 15 years they'd still manage to get a next to nothing sentence.

[Park Life 70]

Isn't there a mandatory 5 year sentence for possession of a knife or did I make that up?

Sounds way off tbh.

 

Yeah, I was thinking of guns I think, or maybe got confused with a call for a 5 year mandatory sentence. Indy.

 

 

You need 5 cause they'd be out in 2-3 anyway.

[Guest alex]

I agree that some people, who are naive enough to think that the police are there to protect the innocent and aren't governed by figures as much as any other public service, might get done for carry something as innocent as a Swiss Army knife which they'd left in their pocket. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen very often and it wouldn't make me hesitate about wanting tougher sentences for people carrying offensive weapons.

Until it happened to you or someone you know, and the people that did need it still wouldn't be worried as unless it was something ridiculous like 15 years they'd still manage to get a next to nothing sentence.

What do you suggest then?

[manc-mag 1]

 

That's not torture though that's....... erm..... Law and Order?

 

Is electrocuting someone in the neck safe? Fuckin hell!

Apparently so (tasers have already been used like that in the UK during the trial, to force already subdued people to further comply).

 

Well the UN disagree, but who are they?

 

Of course if someone in the Yemen might, maybe threaten to do it to someone (maybe), then that IS torture, of course.

 

I would equally like to see peaceful protest taken out of the equation (obviously while it remains exactly that-peaceful-which we know it doesnt always). That said I cringe when the police batons are broken out as it always looks absolutely hideous and causes real injuries-the problem is what happens if the police were made to stop short of that? Serious question btw.

[Park Life 70]

 

That's not torture though that's....... erm..... Law and Order?

 

Is electrocuting someone in the neck safe? Fuckin hell!

Apparently so (tasers have already been used like that in the UK during the trial, to force already subdued people to further comply).

 

Well the UN disagree, but who are they?

 

Of course if someone in the Yemen might, maybe threaten to do it to someone (maybe), then that IS torture, of course.

 

 

Don't worry I understand your subtext vis a vie a psychological weapon.

[Fop 1]

I agree the police need to be armed properly. Stun guns wont help

 

Automatic shotguns are the only thing with sufficient firepower and indiscriminate spread to guarantee complete compliance.

 

 

I agree that some people, who are naive enough to think that the police are there to protect the innocent and aren't governed by figures as much as any other public service, might get done for carry something as innocent as a Swiss Army knife which they'd left in their pocket. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen very often and it wouldn't make me hesitate about wanting tougher sentences for people carrying offensive weapons.

Until it happened to you or someone you know, and the people that did need it still wouldn't be worried as unless it was something ridiculous like 15 years they'd still manage to get a next to nothing sentence.

What do you suggest then?

A 3 strikes type policy (it's the only thing that has the needed leeway and deterrence), but we'd have to build more jails.

[Renton 17626]

I agree the police need to be armed properly. Stun guns wont help

 

Automatic shotguns are the only thing with sufficient firepower and indiscriminate spread to guarantee complete compliance.

 

 

I agree that some people, who are naive enough to think that the police are there to protect the innocent and aren't governed by figures as much as any other public service, might get done for carry something as innocent as a Swiss Army knife which they'd left in their pocket. I'd like to think it wouldn't happen very often and it wouldn't make me hesitate about wanting tougher sentences for people carrying offensive weapons.

Until it happened to you or someone you know, and the people that did need it still wouldn't be worried as unless it was something ridiculous like 15 years they'd still manage to get a next to nothing sentence.

What do you suggest then?

A 3 strikes type policy (it's the only thing that has the needed leeway and deterrence), but we'd have to build more jails.

 

If the States haven't got enough jail space to implement it we have no chance, obviously. Any other ideas?

[Fop 1]

I would equally like to see peaceful protest taken out of the equation (obviously while it remains exactly that-peaceful-which we know it doesnt always). That said I cringe when the police batons are broken out as it always looks absolutely hideous and causes real injuries-the problem is what happens if the police were made to stop short of that? Serious question btw.

 

Well whilst, for example, that pro-hunt beating was ott, it was at least arguable provoked (not by the people that got beaten half to death, but just by the crowd pressure).

 

But say using CS spray (or a taser) to simple make someone let go is something else entirely, I can't see how that can be defined as anything else but torture.