NJS 3978 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Nobody has said "I hope we lose" but there seems to a futuristic hindsight if you know what I mean where people will say "at least it got rid of Souness". My objection is the degree to which people entertain that notion now and also how much they will use it if we do lose. Thats the "level of devestation" I'm on about PL - if people are as pissed off as they were after any defeat in the past against them (under Bobby or Gullit) then thats fine no matter how that is but if they let a sly "oh well" type thought then I think its wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 (edited) Ok so maybe nobody has come out and said it but it's certainly been hinted at and I certainly think Peasepud's first post needs to be read again by some. This week is not a time for whinging and negativity, it's a time to unite behind the team. Regarding nobody actually wanting us to lose, well there are definitely a few with that mind set... The "other" side Edited October 16, 2005 by Geordiesned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 (edited) Ok so maybe nobody has come out and said it but it's certainly been hinted at and I certainly think Peasepud's first post needs to be read again by some. This week is not a time for whinging and negativity, it's a time to unite behind the team. Regarding nobody actually wanting us to lose, well there are definitely a few with that mind set... The "other" side 46409[/snapback] One thing that isn't going to unite the fans is snide hints that some consider themselves better fans than others. I have never told another fan they are not welcome at SJP for having different believes to me. At the end of the day we all want to suceed, we just have different ideas on how this might be best achieved. Edited October 16, 2005 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottish Mag 3 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 I will be gutted if we lose the match and on Sunday will be backing the team as much as the next person. However i fail to see why sticking my head in the sand for the whole week and tip toeing around threads trying to go out our way not to criticise the shambles that is going on at the club right now will have any effect on the outcome of next weeks game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Nobody has said "I hope we lose" but there seems to a futuristic hindsight if you know what I mean where people will say "at least it got rid of Souness". My objection is the degree to which people entertain that notion now and also how much they will use it if we do lose. Thats the "level of devestation" I'm on about PL - if people are as pissed off as they were after any defeat in the past against them (under Bobby or Gullit) then thats fine no matter how that is but if they let a sly "oh well" type thought then I think its wrong. 46408[/snapback] I agree about futuristic hindsight, it gets on my tits as well as you can't know what it going to happen for sure. To be honest i don't even think a loss to the mackems will neccesarilly bring about a sacking this time from Fat Fred so i don't think a defeat would have a sort of positive side to it if you like. But i do think every fan is different and as long as they coem to St. James and back the team for 90 mins as best they can and to help as much as they can, then they are free to feel how they want about a result, whether its a short term devestation at losing to the mackems and nowt else or that plus a feeling of being happy should it get the manager out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted October 16, 2005 Author Share Posted October 16, 2005 well this has failed miserably! We've ended up doing the thing I was hoping to stamp out for the next week, arguments amongst ourselves. I think everyone knows and agrees that nobody on this board wants us to lose and many including me can see the argument as to how losing may not be a bad thing in the long run but as Renton said above thats hypothetical. Souness is here, personally Im willing to give him that little bit longer. No matter what his faults are (and they're many) Im sure everyone will agree that as managers go he's one of those that totally understands the derby game (just look at the whole flag thing when with Galatassaray). Hes been in the middle of the Rangers/ Celtic stuff as well as Liverpool/Everton. He will know what it means to us as fans, if he doesnt show that on Sunday then good riddance. All Im asking is we raise the level of support for the next 7 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. 46452[/snapback] You obviously don't listen to a word anyone says, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. 46452[/snapback] You obviously don't listen to a word anyone says, do you? 46454[/snapback] Oh I listen, but if you really don't fall into the group of people that want us to lose so Souness leaves then the comments aren't aimed at you are they? So what you worrying about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. 46452[/snapback] You obviously don't listen to a word anyone says, do you? 46454[/snapback] Oh I listen, but if you really don't fall into the group of people that want us to lose so Souness leaves then the comments aren't aimed at you are they? So what you worrying about? 46455[/snapback] No your comments don't relate to me. But what I don't think you realise is that NO Newcastle fan wants us to lose to the mackems or will be in anyway supporting them. It's just that some people can see it might be better for us in the long run. This is one issue that is full of what ifs and maybes - it certainly isn't black and white like you are suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. 46452[/snapback] You obviously don't listen to a word anyone says, do you? 46454[/snapback] Oh I listen, but if you really don't fall into the group of people that want us to lose so Souness leaves then the comments aren't aimed at you are they? So what you worrying about? 46455[/snapback] No your comments don't relate to me. But what I don't think you realise is that NO Newcastle fan wants us to lose to the mackems or will be in anyway supporting them. It's just that some people can see it might be better for us in the long run. This is one issue that is full of what ifs and maybes - it certainly isn't black and white like you are suggesting. 46460[/snapback] Oh its not black and white is it not, that must mean its red and white then...you mackem loving bastard, why don't you piss off and support them then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 (edited) Snide comments? Moi? Well actually, if anyone does want us to lose next week, against our biggest rivals, so that Souness is sacked then in my eyes they are indeed shite fans and can fuck off. 46452[/snapback] You obviously don't listen to a word anyone says, do you? 46454[/snapback] Oh I listen, but if you really don't fall into the group of people that want us to lose so Souness leaves then the comments aren't aimed at you are they? So what you worrying about? 46455[/snapback] No your comments don't relate to me. But what I don't think you realise is that NO Newcastle fan wants us to lose to the mackems or will be in anyway supporting them. It's just that some people can see it might be better for us in the long run. This is one issue that is full of what ifs and maybes - it certainly isn't black and white like you are suggesting. 46460[/snapback] Oh its not black and white is it not, that must mean its red and white then...you mackem loving bastard, why don't you piss off and support them then! 46464[/snapback] Edited October 16, 2005 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Why should it take a defeat against the Mackems to get our manager sacked? why indeed, good question. The answer IMO is that I for one would have sacked him ages ago, but others such as yourself take more persuading that he is the fuckwit some of us have been saying for months.......unfortunately only a defeat of the magnitude of this sunday will maybe convince you .. now that isn't OUR fault. So it isn't us who are turning up the pressure of our local derby, if we had a good manager and were winning games I would be looking forward to giving them a good thumping ..... on the way to greater success. At the end of the day, the mackems is a derby game and has extra spice, but I want to win EVERY game, which is why I want rid of Souness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 One choice only: (hypothetical banter) Lose to Sunderland, Souness gets sacked, we bring in Hitzfeld (or other suitable candidate) and we make it to the CL OR Beat the Mackems, keep Souness, finish 12th. I never want to see us lose but I care much less about one game than making progress. Still, I don't work on a building site full of Mackems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Lazaru 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 One choice only: (hypothetical banter) Lose to Sunderland, Souness gets sacked, we bring in Hitzfeld (or other suitable candidate) and we make it to the CL OR Beat the Mackems, keep Souness, finish 12th. I never want to see us lose but I care much less about one game than making progress. Still, I don't work on a building site full of Mackems.... 46479[/snapback] Take out the CL guarentee from the first option and the 12th place from the second, and if you could guarentee Souness out and Hitzfeld in then everyone would have to choose option one if they cared anything about the long term future of our club. However it is as you said hypothetical banter so we won't know what will happen. My prediciton is if we lose or draw he won't be sacked, my prediction for the game itself, i think we'll win...just! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3978 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 What if Hitzfeld is another Gross? I did actually want him "last time" but the way people think its a bang on certainty that he would succeed is as presumptious as saying Souness will definitely fail. I do happen to think he would succeed (though doubt Freddie will go for him) but the weight of this "messiah" burden may be too much for any manager. It would certainly be too much for who we'd most likely get - O'Leary or Bruce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 What if Hitzfeld is another Gross? I did actually want him "last time" but the way people think its a bang on certainty that he would succeed is as presumptious as saying Souness will definitely fail. I do happen to think he would succeed (though doubt Freddie will go for him) but the weight of this "messiah" burden may be too much for any manager. It would certainly be too much for who we'd most likely get - O'Leary or Bruce. 46483[/snapback] It's possible....although extremely unlikely. Icegrim and Meenzer have convinced me he is a top man-manager to stand alongside his achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 What if Hitzfeld is another Gross? I did actually want him "last time" but the way people think its a bang on certainty that he would succeed is as presumptious as saying Souness will definitely fail. 46483[/snapback] Well, as long as he isn't another Souness... Of course there is no guarantee that Hitzfeld wouldl succeed and it's far from certain that he will even come. Though, to compare someone who won the CL with two different teams and has been the most succesful manager in one of Europe's major leagues in the last decade with a Swiss nobody is plainly ridiculous. I also don't know what is presumptuous in saying that Souness will fail. That is an assessment by his work over the last twelve months in charge and a string of poor results and poor performances. But of course, it looks very likely that he will be succesful. Is this a flying pig I see outside my window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Why should it take a defeat against the Mackems to get our manager sacked? why indeed, good question. The answer IMO is that I for one would have sacked him ages ago, but others such as yourself take more persuading that he is the fuckwit some of us have been saying for months.......unfortunately only a defeat of the magnitude of this sunday will maybe convince you .. now that isn't OUR fault. So it isn't us who are turning up the pressure of our local derby, if we had a good manager and were winning games I would be looking forward to giving them a good thumping ..... on the way to greater success. At the end of the day, the mackems is a derby game and has extra spice, but I want to win EVERY game, which is why I want rid of Souness. 46468[/snapback] What the hell are you on about? So because I don't want to love on Sunday I'm now a Souness lover am I? Give me strength! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Why should it take a defeat against the Mackems to get our manager sacked? why indeed, good question. The answer IMO is that I for one would have sacked him ages ago, but others such as yourself take more persuading that he is the fuckwit some of us have been saying for months.......unfortunately only a defeat of the magnitude of this sunday will maybe convince you .. now that isn't OUR fault. So it isn't us who are turning up the pressure of our local derby, if we had a good manager and were winning games I would be looking forward to giving them a good thumping ..... on the way to greater success. At the end of the day, the mackems is a derby game and has extra spice, but I want to win EVERY game, which is why I want rid of Souness. 46468[/snapback] What the hell are you on about? So because I don't want to love on Sunday I'm now a Souness lover am I? Give me strength! 46489[/snapback] Crikey Sned I'm not trying to argue with you man.....nor did I say you are a Souness lover at all...I'm only giving my view on the question I clipped ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordiesned 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Why should it take a defeat against the Mackems to get our manager sacked? why indeed, good question. The answer IMO is that I for one would have sacked him ages ago, but others such as yourself take more persuading that he is the fuckwit some of us have been saying for months.......unfortunately only a defeat of the magnitude of this sunday will maybe convince you .. now that isn't OUR fault. So it isn't us who are turning up the pressure of our local derby, if we had a good manager and were winning games I would be looking forward to giving them a good thumping ..... on the way to greater success. At the end of the day, the mackems is a derby game and has extra spice, but I want to win EVERY game, which is why I want rid of Souness. 46468[/snapback] What the hell are you on about? So because I don't want to love on Sunday I'm now a Souness lover am I? Give me strength! 46489[/snapback] Crikey Sned I'm not trying to argue with you man.....nor did I say you are a Souness lover at all...I'm only giving my view on the question I clipped ... 46490[/snapback] Fair enough mate. Just I don't need any convincing that Souness is an inept tactically flawed manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Why should it take a defeat against the Mackems to get our manager sacked? why indeed, good question. The answer IMO is that I for one would have sacked him ages ago, but others such as yourself take more persuading that he is the fuckwit some of us have been saying for months.......unfortunately only a defeat of the magnitude of this sunday will maybe convince you .. now that isn't OUR fault. So it isn't us who are turning up the pressure of our local derby, if we had a good manager and were winning games I would be looking forward to giving them a good thumping ..... on the way to greater success. At the end of the day, the mackems is a derby game and has extra spice, but I want to win EVERY game, which is why I want rid of Souness. 46468[/snapback] What the hell are you on about? So because I don't want to love on Sunday I'm now a Souness lover am I? Give me strength! 46489[/snapback] Crikey Sned I'm not trying to argue with you man.....nor did I say you are a Souness lover at all...I'm only giving my view on the question I clipped ... 46490[/snapback] Fair enough mate. Just I don't need any convincing that Souness is an inept tactically flawed manager. 46498[/snapback] aye OK and apologise if i got the wrong end of the stick too in the way it came across Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 What if Hitzfeld is another Gross? I did actually want him "last time" but the way people think its a bang on certainty that he would succeed is as presumptious as saying Souness will definitely fail. 46483[/snapback] Well, as long as he isn't another Souness... Of course there is no guarantee that Hitzfeld wouldl succeed and it's far from certain that he will even come. Though, to compare someone who won the CL with two different teams and has been the most succesful manager in one of Europe's major leagues in the last decade with a Swiss nobody is plainly ridiculous. I also don't know what is presumptuous in saying that Souness will fail. That is an assessment by his work over the last twelve months in charge and a string of poor results and poor performances. But of course, it looks very likely that he will be succesful. Is this a flying pig I see outside my window? 46488[/snapback] Good post Guru, as usual. I cannot understand why some good posters like NJS cling to the belief Souness will actually, and miraculously, some how become a good manager. But they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17759 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 So because I don't want to love on Sunday Why don't you want to love on Sunday? Are you really religious??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted October 17, 2005 Share Posted October 17, 2005 What if Hitzfeld is another Gross? I did actually want him "last time" but the way people think its a bang on certainty that he would succeed is as presumptious as saying Souness will definitely fail. 46483[/snapback] Well, as long as he isn't another Souness... Of course there is no guarantee that Hitzfeld wouldl succeed and it's far from certain that he will even come. Though, to compare someone who won the CL with two different teams and has been the most succesful manager in one of Europe's major leagues in the last decade with a Swiss nobody is plainly ridiculous. I also don't know what is presumptuous in saying that Souness will fail. That is an assessment by his work over the last twelve months in charge and a string of poor results and poor performances. But of course, it looks very likely that he will be succesful. Is this a flying pig I see outside my window? 46488[/snapback] some people just won't admit they are wrong because they have been wearing rose tinted specs © Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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