Toon & Gloom

[wykikitoon 16622]

Is He talking sense for once?

 

EVEN staunch, eternally-hopeful Newcastle fans have just about given up.

 

There were no Toon callers at all to Radio Five’s 606 phone-in after Saturday’s surrender at Blackburn.

 

And 24hrs earlier, Malcolm Macdonald’s Legends show on Century FM was uncharacteristically short on audience participation.

 

But few can blame the Toon Army for their confusion and apathy — best summed up in their chant at Ewood Park of “We’re s**t and we know we are”.

 

They have in owner Mike Ashley, a disinterested, absentee landlord whose inability to sell the club will impact even more on already minimal transfer funds the closer the Championship looms.

 

They have in Derek Llambias, a managing director rarely seen outside of match days on Tyneside.

 

And they have in Joe Kinnear, a manager who looks increasingly out of his depth and who, by all appearances, leaves much of the training to Chris Hughton (who probably deserves a medal).

 

Worst of all, they have in the London-based Dennis Wise, a hate-figure who effectively (or, rather, ineffectively) pulls all the strings and whose efforts at bringing in new players with only 11 days left of the transfer window amounts to a few young Scandinavian trialists and Schalke’s unwanted Peter Lovenkrands.

£30,000-a-match

 

As for the players, when they are not fighting either themselves or members of the opposition, they are desperately attempting to tunnel out of St James’ Park.

 

Chief among these are Michael Owen, Obafemi Martins, Charles N’Zogbia and the long-serving Shay Given, who is as fed-up as any other Newcastle fan.

 

The only one who seems to want to stay is Shola Ameobi, a man Kevin Keegan tried to flog to Ipswich and whose new three-year deal has raised eyebrows round town.

 

And then there are the results.

 

Kinnear, reputedly on £30,000-a-match and claiming to have been offered a two-year deal, has won four games out of 18 and been knocked out of the FA Cup by Hull reserves — a win ratio of 22 per cent. So much for “steadying the ship”. Glenn Roeder took the club into Europe and was sacked when his win ratio dropped to 31 per cent.

 

Then there are the next three fixtures for a team just two points off the foot of the table — Man City (a), Sunderland (h) and West Brom (a).

 

And a run in March that includes Man Utd (h), Hull (a) and Arsenal (h).

 

Then there’s Kinnear, currently facing THREE misconduct charges and a man whose own indiscipline has spread to the rank and file.

 

No one can blame him for taking the job, but even a man well known at Wimbledon for his sense of fun must be wondering what he’s got himself into.

 

We have seen some dark times at Newcastle, but none as bleak as this.

 

Always before there was the voice of the people.

 

But chanting against an owner who isn’t there or demanding yet another manager is just a waste of breath.

 

The only alternative is to stay away. That day can’t be far off.

 

Take from Here

 

If we go down were fucked basically

 

Given

Owen

Martins

Duke

Smith

Zog

Harper

Collocini

Bassong

Enrique

Barton

Jonas

Duff

Xisco

Beye

 

I should think all of them would go. Either due to being too good for the Championship or because of their wages. Its scarey scarey shit. Just think of teams that have dropped from the Prem. Leeds, Leicester, Weds, Watford, Charlton, Southampton etc etc.

 

Now lets take the Black and White tinted specs off. We have a nice stadium, a great great fanbase, but how many can honestly we get in the Championship 35-40k? Now that would be great. Some of them teams above didnt get that in the Prem I hear you say, yes they didnt but how many have bounced back up? We all thought Leeds would etc?

 

Im worried, very worried.

[OTF 6146]

I'm feeling of late that a key problem (apart from our inept management team) is the fact that we're paying way too much in wages in comparison to our position and our performances. The wages we're paying now are prohibitive of any new established players coming in, and so instead they're signing young players on low wages, or washed-up / out of sorts players also on relatively low wages. Once they clear the deadwood out (Smith, Geremi, Viduka, Duff etc) they'll be in a more competitive position to spend money on players. As a result of their high wages (and ages), noone will be interested in buying these players so that avenue for getting rid of them is gone. Likewise we can't just sack them because they would still have to pay out the wages.

 

So basically we find ourselves with a high-wage yet low-performance team with a very low saleable playing roster. If Ashley isn't prepared to take an even greater financial hit for the next 2-3 seasons (allowing them to clear out some of the deadwood) then as we all know we could be relegated. Financially you could argue that what he is doing is relatively sound when taking into acount our current predicament, however if we do get relegated it will all fall down in a massive screaming heap. The risk as far as I see it is great, too great in my opinion to take the chance. Nonetheless it seems they're reluctant to spend the cash to bring in player who could essentially turn out to be additional high-wage low-performance handicaps. Just think - if we did end up signing Woodgate and Modric for example. Both of them were highly touted, both of them would have been on massive wages for us, yet both of them are sitting even lower on the table than we are. If we had signed them (or either of them) Ashley would be even more reluctant to spend money now.

 

The other problem we have is our apparent inability to sign players - and again this is understandable. We're in a shite position and all of the news coming out of Newcastle for the past 6 months has been negative - not exactly a gerat environment to go to, is it?

 

I'm not making excuses, or defedning Ashley here, just trying to understand how it can outwardly appear as though the club is going to shit (/has gone to shit) and nothing is being done to prevent it.

[Cid_MCDP 0]

Is He talking sense for once?

 

EVEN staunch, eternally-hopeful Newcastle fans have just about given up.

 

There were no Toon callers at all to Radio Five’s 606 phone-in after Saturday’s surrender at Blackburn.

 

And 24hrs earlier, Malcolm Macdonald’s Legends show on Century FM was uncharacteristically short on audience participation.

 

But few can blame the Toon Army for their confusion and apathy — best summed up in their chant at Ewood Park of “We’re s**t and we know we are”.

 

They have in owner Mike Ashley, a disinterested, absentee landlord whose inability to sell the club will impact even more on already minimal transfer funds the closer the Championship looms.

 

They have in Derek Llambias, a managing director rarely seen outside of match days on Tyneside.

 

And they have in Joe Kinnear, a manager who looks increasingly out of his depth and who, by all appearances, leaves much of the training to Chris Hughton (who probably deserves a medal).

 

Worst of all, they have in the London-based Dennis Wise, a hate-figure who effectively (or, rather, ineffectively) pulls all the strings and whose efforts at bringing in new players with only 11 days left of the transfer window amounts to a few young Scandinavian trialists and Schalke’s unwanted Peter Lovenkrands.

£30,000-a-match

 

As for the players, when they are not fighting either themselves or members of the opposition, they are desperately attempting to tunnel out of St James’ Park.

 

Chief among these are Michael Owen, Obafemi Martins, Charles N’Zogbia and the long-serving Shay Given, who is as fed-up as any other Newcastle fan.

 

The only one who seems to want to stay is Shola Ameobi, a man Kevin Keegan tried to flog to Ipswich and whose new three-year deal has raised eyebrows round town.

 

And then there are the results.

 

Kinnear, reputedly on £30,000-a-match and claiming to have been offered a two-year deal, has won four games out of 18 and been knocked out of the FA Cup by Hull reserves — a win ratio of 22 per cent. So much for “steadying the ship”. Glenn Roeder took the club into Europe and was sacked when his win ratio dropped to 31 per cent.

 

Then there are the next three fixtures for a team just two points off the foot of the table — Man City (a), Sunderland (h) and West Brom (a).

 

And a run in March that includes Man Utd (h), Hull (a) and Arsenal (h).

 

Then there’s Kinnear, currently facing THREE misconduct charges and a man whose own indiscipline has spread to the rank and file.

 

No one can blame him for taking the job, but even a man well known at Wimbledon for his sense of fun must be wondering what he’s got himself into.

 

We have seen some dark times at Newcastle, but none as bleak as this.

 

Always before there was the voice of the people.

 

But chanting against an owner who isn’t there or demanding yet another manager is just a waste of breath.

 

The only alternative is to stay away. That day can’t be far off.

 

Take from Here

 

If we go down were fucked basically

 

Given

Owen

Martins

Duke

Smith

Zog

Harper

Collocini

Bassong

Enrique

Barton

Jonas

Duff

Xisco

Beye

 

I should think all of them would go. Either due to being too good for the Championship or because of their wages. Its scarey scarey shit. Just think of teams that have dropped from the Prem. Leeds, Leicester, Weds, Watford, Charlton, Southampton etc etc.

 

Now lets take the Black and White tinted specs off. We have a nice stadium, a great great fanbase, but how many can honestly we get in the Championship 35-40k? Now that would be great. Some of them teams above didnt get that in the Prem I hear you say, yes they didnt but how many have bounced back up? We all thought Leeds would etc?

 

Im worried, very worried.

 

Let me ask some questions that have been keeping me up the last couple of nights-

 

If our attendance numbers did stay relatively high after relegation (like Leeds) AND we got rid of all the big names on our squad, would the club make more, less, or the same amount of money than it does currently?

 

I realize we'd be losing out on all that EPL TV money and everything, but I've had this thought lately that if Ashley is only concerned about profitability for NUFC, what would really happen financially if we were relegated? Obviously, the knee jerk reaction would be that we'd lose millions, but think about this for just a second...

 

Look at Leeds' attendance figures- not only are they higher than anyone in League 1, not only are they higher than nearly all of the Champ sides, they average more than almost 1/3 of the Premiership. If you're Mike Ashley and you realize you have an average of what, 45,000 loyal fans who show up every week to watch whatever the hell you've thrown on the pitch up to this point, it has to cross your mind.

 

"Would they all still turn up if we were a Championship side?"

 

It's almost like when a corporation closes a plant down- sure, you lose the money that plant earned from producing a product, but you also don't spend the money on wages, rent, taxes, transportation, etc., etc. Sometimes operating costs can come close to parity with how much money a plant produces.

 

Do the wages for all those guys in wykikitoon's list there come anywhere close to equaling the money NUFC earns just for being part of the Premiership? I'm honestly asking here. I don't know enough about all the revenue streams for the EPL- in the U.S., most pro sports teams take in more dough at the gate than any other means unless it's like the Yankees or some massive team with their own TV network and whatnot.

 

... because if it does somewhat equal out, all of Ashley's moves, at least this season, suddenly make a whole lot more sense.

Edited January 23, 2009 by Cid_MCDP

[themags 0]

I can't see us averaging more than 25,000 if we were relegated and i dread to think how the people who've paid up front for 3 year tickets would feel or maybe that is some how connected.

[wykikitoon 16622]

Thats our main problem tbh, the massive wage bill we have

[TheMoog 0]

That article hits every nail smack on there head, for the national press to eventually be picking it up things must be blatantly obvious to everyone else at long last - I think the end really is nigh.

[Ugly Mackems 133]

Given

Owen

Martins

Duke

Smith

Zog

Harper

Collocini

Bassong

Enrique

Barton

Jonas

Duff

Xisco

Beye

 

 

The only players worth keeping to be honest. The rest want out or are a drain on resources. Sadly, some of those I'd keep will go as well.

[Fop 1]

Given

Owen

Martins

Duke

Smith

Zog

Harper

Collocini

Bassong

Enrique

Barton

Jonas

Duff

Xisco

Beye

 

I should think all of them would go.

 

Add Baggio and most of N-O to that as well.

 

We're in real trouble not just this season, but next season almost no matter where we end up this season.

[Kitman 2188]

I think we can get through this but we'll need a fair chunk of luck. Key to it is prem survival, ditching JFK in the summer & getting in a decent manager. We then need to rebuild the squad, losing the dead wood, letting malcontents go and making some canny signings well ahead of a decent pre-season. Unfortunately this will require the Board to get a grip, make some plans, make them happen in good time and spend some money - all of which seems to be beyond them up to now.

 

More likely if we survive, they'll all have a nice long holiday and then get together to discuss what should be done a week before the season starts. JFK will then write out a list of urgent transfer targets and Wise will wipe his arse on them, as usual. While Ashley's stuffing his face with Lame-Ass in some Knightsbridge eaterie, Wise will be negotiating on deadline day to sign Dean Windass and three 16 year old wonder kids.

 

Bah!

[Jackies the Lad 0]

I think we can get through this but we'll need a fair chunk of luck. Key to it is prem survival, ditching JFK in the summer & getting in a decent manager. We then need to rebuild the squad, losing the dead wood, letting malcontents go and making some canny signings well ahead of a decent pre-season. Unfortunately this will require the Board to get a grip, make some plans, make them happen in good time and spend some money - all of which seems to be beyond them up to now.

 

More likely if we survive, they'll all have a nice long holiday and then get together to discuss what should be done a week before the season starts. JFK will then write out a list of urgent transfer targets and Wise will wipe his arse on them, as usual. While Ashley's stuffing his face with Lame-Ass in some Knightsbridge eaterie, Wise will be negotiating on deadline day to sign Dean Windass and three 16 year old wonder kids.

 

Bah!

 

 

No hope then?

 

I tend to agree with the main article, but how long has it taken to hit the tabloid sun. Even though it's hit a national they are only reported and printed regionally and this will not necessarily be news in the south.

[Alan Shearer Is God 0]

I think we can get through this but we'll need a fair chunk of luck. Key to it is prem survival, ditching JFK in the summer & getting in a decent manager. We then need to rebuild the squad, losing the dead wood, letting malcontents go and making some canny signings well ahead of a decent pre-season. Unfortunately this will require the Board to get a grip, make some plans, make them happen in good time and spend some money - all of which seems to be beyond them up to now.

 

More likely if we survive, they'll all have a nice long holiday and then get together to discuss what should be done a week before the season starts. JFK will then write out a list of urgent transfer targets and Wise will wipe his arse on them, as usual. While Ashley's stuffing his face with Lame-Ass in some Knightsbridge eaterie, Wise will be negotiating on deadline day to sign Dean Windass and three 16 year old wonder kids.

 

Bah!

 

Since when have NUFC ever had luck?!

[ImpossiblyDaft 1]

This article infuriates me; I know Steve Howard is a Newcastle fan but he has no right to try and angle himself a move in this manner - sure he'd be a decent striker for you guys in the championship but I want him here when we go back up damnit

[GeordieMessiah 0]

Thats our main problem tbh, the massive wage bill we have

 

Has been a problem simmering away on the back boiler for a good few years...only now it's coming home to roost.

[Kitman 2188]

Thats our main problem tbh, the massive wage bill we have

 

Has been a problem simmering away on the back boiler for a good few years...only now it's coming home to roost.

 

Like a fat pox-ridden chicken

[Chaser 1054]

I think it is possible that we could turn the clubs fortunes around in the summer, but that's a massive rebuilding job. We would have to clear something in the region of 8 players out of the club to trim the wage bill, and then invest in the same amount of players just to replace them. These have to be of substantial quality to come here and lift the club.

 

The issue is attracting them. In that, Ashley would need to redress the current setup involving his mate Wise and get rid of JFK. We are not a credible opportunity with the current management team.

 

Whatever Llameass does I dont know, because he certainly doesnt act as the club spokesman anymore.

 

There definitely needs to be more transparency towards the fans that is without doubt.

[Fop 1]

I think it is possible that we could turn the clubs fortunes around in the summer, but that's a massive rebuilding job. We would have to clear something in the region of 8 players out of the club to trim the wage bill, and then invest in the same amount of players just to replace them. These have to be of substantial quality to come here and lift the club.

 

The issue is attracting them. In that, Ashley would need to redress the current setup involving his mate Wise and get rid of JFK. We are not a credible opportunity with the current management team.

 

Whatever Llameass does I dont know, because he certainly doesnt act as the club spokesman anymore.

 

There definitely needs to be more transparency towards the fans that is without doubt.

 

Where do you see the money coming from though?

 

 

Clearly Ashley is not going to invest so how do we rebuild? We can be demolished into a Championship side, but without investment, that is all we can do.

[Park Life 70]

I don't really understand all this, are there any debt free PL clubs running at a profit?

[Fop 1]

I don't really understand all this, are there any debt free PL clubs running at a profit?

 

It probably depends on whether you mean profit or "profit" (or debt and "debt" maybe more accurately), I'm still not wholly convinced which camp we're in.

[Kitman 2188]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

[Fop 1]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The cure may well be more damaging than the disease.

 

I'm really not sure we can remain as a Premiership side on a £0 budget, especially as our decline will hit income anyway (never mind everything else going on economically in the UK).

[TheMoog 0]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The cure may well be more damaging than the disease.

 

I'm really not sure we can remain as a Premiership side on a £0 budget, especially as our decline will hit income anyway (never mind everything else going on economically in the UK).

 

 

At the end of the day there's no fun to be had watching your team lose, so plodding along just making ends meet makes a nothing of a club which even without rose tinted glasses should be a lot better off than they currently find themselves - it's a sad, sad day that we are in this predicament, if there truly is a curse on St James' and the club then surely it's shown it's ugly head to it's full extent now... relegation would just about kill us off totally and utterly.

[Fop 1]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The cure may well be more damaging than the disease.

 

I'm really not sure we can remain as a Premiership side on a £0 budget, especially as our decline will hit income anyway (never mind everything else going on economically in the UK).

 

 

At the end of the day there's no fun to be had watching your team lose, so plodding along just making ends meet makes a nothing of a club which even without rose tinted glasses should be a lot better off than they currently find themselves - it's a sad, sad day that we are in this predicament, if there truly is a curse on St James' and the club then surely it's shown it's ugly head to it's full extent now... relegation would just about kill us off totally and utterly.

 

 

Happy Face needs to look up accounts from the 90's and tell us what to do.

[Happy Face 29]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The cure may well be more damaging than the disease.

 

I'm really not sure we can remain as a Premiership side on a £0 budget, especially as our decline will hit income anyway (never mind everything else going on economically in the UK).

 

 

At the end of the day there's no fun to be had watching your team lose, so plodding along just making ends meet makes a nothing of a club which even without rose tinted glasses should be a lot better off than they currently find themselves - it's a sad, sad day that we are in this predicament, if there truly is a curse on St James' and the club then surely it's shown it's ugly head to it's full extent now... relegation would just about kill us off totally and utterly.

 

 

Happy Face needs to look up accounts from the 90's and tell us what to do.

 

[Park Life 70]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The unluckiest billionaire on the planet?

[Kitman 2188]

If you listen to some people we should be grateful to Fat Mike because we're not in liquidation. Plainly it's unreasonable to expect him to have been able to afford the club, and invest it. Thank fuck we've got him and not some super rich Arab consortium, eh? To be serious, there's no doubt we were heading into financial difficulty under the Halls/Shepherd, hence the Halls desperation to sell, but there may have been an opportunity cost to Ashley's swoop on the club. Which we're paying for now, because he's brassic (figuratively speaking). Still, we do have a "plan" instead, so we'll be all right.

 

* Takes more Prozac *

 

The unluckiest billionaire on the planet?

 

He's probably only a multi-millionaire these days. I bet he hasn't even got a yacht. What a loser.