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Dennis Wise needs a chance


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Newcastle fans know better than anyone that a manager that actually is succesful is a fluke.

 

Just for starters, by what measure can you call Bobby Robson a fluke? Fuck me :D

 

Might not be the biggest forum in the world but at least they have good footballing discussions. Some on here just want to agree with each other no matter what.

 

Nah sorry like it's just full of mongs.

 

 

It appears that you are the mong. The point was about no guarantee that a manager is going to work. IE we all put forward different names, but for various reason some managers just dont work at some times at some clubs.

 

If that's what you meant, that's what you should have said. Either one is an almost entirely meaningless platitude in any case :)

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Model Behaviour?

By Happy Face On Tue 17 Feb 2009 |

 

Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias have both told us the model they have in mind for Newcastle United. They have named two Champions League chasing clubs and justified their approach at NUFC by comparing to those set-ups.

 

First of all, in September 2008, Mike Ashley justified our transfer policy by comparing it with that of Arsenal.

 

“Arsenal is the shining example in England of a sustainable business model. It takes time. It can’t be done overnight. Newcastle has therefore set up an extensive scouting system. We look for young players, for players in foreign leagues who everyone does not know about. We try and stay ahead of the competition. We search high and low looking for value, for potential that we can bring on and for players who will allow Newcastle to compete at the very highest level but who don’t cost the earth.”

 

No doubt, Arsene Wenger has brought in some fantastic young talent that he’s sold on at a profit. But the key to that is Arsene Wenger. Read what he said just a couple of days before the statement above was released.

 

“If I go into a job and someone says to me that you have a director of football who buys and sells the players, I accept or don’t accept it. If I accept it, I cannot complain. I would personally not accept that.”

 

The man has proven quality for bringing youth through at Arsenal, and he’s left alone to do it himself. He would not tolerate Dennis Wise or Jeff Vetere making those decisions for him. If he does take advice before deciding on a player, I wonder if he’d view our recruitment team as qualified to give it. We all know Dennis Wise’s history in the game and are perplexed by his appointment. He’s spent more time assaulting children than scouting them. But what about Vetere, maybe he’s every bit as good as Wenger, which talent has he spotted in his career?

 

Rushden and Diamonds - Andrew Burgess

 

Charlton Athletic - Grant Basey

 

Real Madrid - Daniel Opare

 

I’m sure these are able footballers, but they aren’t really proven quality up there with what’s been rolling off the production line at Arsenal are they? Vetere’s credited as a walking encyclopaedia by many, but most fans know someone like that, someone who wastes their life playing Championship Manager. We don’t believe it qualifies any of those people as premier league talent spotters.

 

The other point of consideration is that once the kids are through the door at Arsenal they have Arsene Wenger training them, a wise professor of the game, tactical genius and the man holding the baton behind some of the most gorgeous passing teams in the Premier league this past decade. They’re also playing alongside the cream of European talent. A kid coming to Newcastle will be taught by Joe Kinnear and play alongside Shola Ameobi, he doesn’t stand a chance.

 

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, while Arsenal have had this youth based model in place for many years, their debt currently stands at £318million, but that has not stopped them investing £88million in transfers over the last 5 years. They’ve not done anything on the cheap.

 

Which brings us to Aston Villa. In his recent interview Derek Llambias said:

 

“In five years we would hope to be challenging for everything, we hope to be like Aston Villa.”

 

Ignoring the fact that even when he said it Aston Villa were not challenging for everything, Mr Llambias seems not to grasp at all how Aston Villa have found themselves in their current improved position. For years Doug Ellis ran a tight ship at Villa, only investing within his own means and as a result Aston Villa floundered in mid-table and the fans got on his back.

 

The turning point came with the investment of Randy Lerner who (even as a billionaire who has spent much of his own money) has left a £63million debt according to the latest accounts.

 

This didn’t stop him from backing his manager (without a DOF sat above him) with transfers costing £32million this season.

 

It seems to me that the MD and owner are telling us the big name clubs they’re setting us up to emulate, but their actions speak far louder than words and in practice the reticence to build any debt, the lack of ambition to sign any proven quality displays far more amply that they are actually setting us up like a newly promoted team. One that hopes to get lucky with a mid-table finish, but more than anything is planning for inevitable relegation, whether it comes one season or next.

 

 

- If you enjoyed this article by Chris, there are many more like it available on his blog “A Compendium of Contradictions from Mike Ashley”, located at http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com.

 

I agree with most of this, posted by Happy Face on Non-Newcastle residents-Online.

 

HP and recently Ewerk look like a couple of gallant musketeers surrounded by a slavering rabble on N.O.

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I've given up, there's no point in discussing the issue with people who would refuse to admit that they've changed their opinions even if they realise they're wrong.

 

They all seem to want NUSC perfectly suited to their vision before they even think about getting involved. :D

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I'll say it again. His obsession with immediately balancing the books is cause he still wants to sell the club.

 

Yup, he'd snap any buyer hand off, not that he'll get one.

 

This is why I chortle when I see reams of Ashley defence on N.O.

 

He's trying to get out from under muppets!!! :D

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I'll say it again. His obsession with immediately balancing the books is cause he still wants to sell the club.

 

Yup, he'd snap any buyer hand off, not that he'll get one.

 

This is why I chortle when I see reams of Ashley defence on N.O.

 

He's trying to get out from under muppets!!! :D

 

 

But all must bear in mind that what comes next might be worse! Thought we'd all struck oil when we got Ashley.

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I'll say it again. His obsession with immediately balancing the books is cause he still wants to sell the club.

 

Yup, he'd snap any buyer hand off, not that he'll get one.

 

This is why I chortle when I see reams of Ashley defence on N.O.

 

He's trying to get out from under muppets!!! :D

 

 

But all must bear in mind that what comes next might be worse! Thought we'd all struck oil when we got Ashley.

 

I've never met the guy to make that assessment and I find it hard to pass judgement without ever meeting someone. There are always nexceptions to this rule and in Ashley's case he is an exception.

 

The more I here via Llambias and of Ashley's prowess and management skills the more I wonder. As time has gone by over the months, the more incredulous and frankly outright stupid things have become at NUFC.

 

Could it be any worse, the answer is I do not know, but I do know this is damn shit and I do wish for a change of regime, it's as simple as that.

 

I never for one minute thought we had struck oil and it would be wrong to say all of us had that view when Ashley rolled into town!

 

I guess a lot of us asked who the FKN hell is this who has bought our club, and with a very short negotiated transaction period.

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We could conceivably do worse but I doubt we'd get anyone with worse intentions. I think it's safe to assume the chances are any new buyer would be better. It's hard to imagine them being more clueless about how to run a club.

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I'll say it again. His obsession with immediately balancing the books is cause he still wants to sell the club.

 

Yup, he'd snap any buyer hand off, not that he'll get one.

 

This is why I chortle when I see reams of Ashley defence on N.O.

 

He's trying to get out from under muppets!!! :D

 

 

But all must bear in mind that what comes next might be worse! Thought we'd all struck oil when we got Ashley.

 

If it's worse you can bet the defence will be bigger. :)

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@Christmas tree: Don't you realise that Wise is a bloody deceitful dwarf? Can't stand the cunt. Just look at him.

 

Just imagine when he was our future manager - he would be under pressure from day one and never be accepted by the fans.

 

I believe he is one of those players that we all have loved to hate over the years, like bellamy etc. --- Fact

 

Another fact is that no fucker here or elsewhere knows exactly what happened when it all blew up. --- Fact

 

Because he is historically a hate figure, he gets the blame. Was it not Llambias who threatened to thump kev. In all work places there are arguments between managers / directors and so on. Remember it was keegan who walked, again.

 

For me it is just too simplistic to blindly put all the blame on one bloke.

 

As I have said many times, as far as we know, he is not going anywhere and they are sticking with the structure so why not just bring poyet in to work with him rather than another caretaker.

 

If they fail, they fail.

 

Personally I think poyet would get us playing a good style of football.

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Aye but according to his logic the whole process of appointing a manager is a lottery, and therefore we may as well have little Dennis as anyone else :D

 

It is a fucking lottery.

 

Ferguson was a few games from the sack and had it been newcastle rather than man u he probably would have got 2 years at most.

 

Daglish should have worked

Ramos, scolari, etc etc

 

Moyes, who knew

 

Fckn lottery

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Aye but according to his logic the whole process of appointing a manager is a lottery, and therefore we may as well have little Dennis as anyone else :icon_lol:

 

It is a fucking lottery.

 

Ferguson was a few games from the sack and had it been newcastle rather than man u he probably would have got 2 years at most.

 

Daglish should have worked

Ramos, scolari, etc etc

 

Moyes, who knew

 

Fckn lottery

 

If you think a few examples of managers with good cvs failing in one or another job proves your point you are even dafter than I thought :D

 

Ferguson :D He was appointed on the basis of his remarkable success in Scotland and given the time he needed to show he could be just as successful in England. The fact he wasn't sacked was a matter of judgement on the part of their board. In other words he was kept on by design, which is absolutely nothing to do with luck - in a sense, the exact opposite in fact.

 

Moyes was known as one of the most promising young managers around when Everton appointed him. He did a brilliant job at Preston, and had been preparing for management for years before he started. You think they just plucked him out of the air? :rolleyes:

 

Just because there are no guarantees a manager will be successful in one job or another that's not a very good reason to abandon all judgement and throw it to the winds.

 

Personally I think poyet would get us playing a good style of football.

 

Based on what? He might of course, but then again he might not. I'll have tails B)

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You miss and over complicate the point. Better footballing brains than mine could wax lyrical on managers that should have worked and didnt and vice versa.

 

My point (though now lost in the mists of time and a fast exit to the boozer prevents me from looking it up ) was generally making a point....

 

Fuck it, Im sure you know.

 

Im sure ill make more sense after a quick 4. :D

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Model Behaviour?

By Happy Face On Tue 17 Feb 2009 |

 

Mike Ashley and Derek Llambias have both told us the model they have in mind for Newcastle United. They have named two Champions League chasing clubs and justified their approach at NUFC by comparing to those set-ups.

 

First of all, in September 2008, Mike Ashley justified our transfer policy by comparing it with that of Arsenal.

 

“Arsenal is the shining example in England of a sustainable business model. It takes time. It can’t be done overnight. Newcastle has therefore set up an extensive scouting system. We look for young players, for players in foreign leagues who everyone does not know about. We try and stay ahead of the competition. We search high and low looking for value, for potential that we can bring on and for players who will allow Newcastle to compete at the very highest level but who don’t cost the earth.”

 

No doubt, Arsene Wenger has brought in some fantastic young talent that he’s sold on at a profit. But the key to that is Arsene Wenger. Read what he said just a couple of days before the statement above was released.

 

“If I go into a job and someone says to me that you have a director of football who buys and sells the players, I accept or don’t accept it. If I accept it, I cannot complain. I would personally not accept that.”

 

The man has proven quality for bringing youth through at Arsenal, and he’s left alone to do it himself. He would not tolerate Dennis Wise or Jeff Vetere making those decisions for him. If he does take advice before deciding on a player, I wonder if he’d view our recruitment team as qualified to give it. We all know Dennis Wise’s history in the game and are perplexed by his appointment. He’s spent more time assaulting children than scouting them. But what about Vetere, maybe he’s every bit as good as Wenger, which talent has he spotted in his career?

 

Rushden and Diamonds - Andrew Burgess

 

Charlton Athletic - Grant Basey

 

Real Madrid - Daniel Opare

 

I’m sure these are able footballers, but they aren’t really proven quality up there with what’s been rolling off the production line at Arsenal are they? Vetere’s credited as a walking encyclopaedia by many, but most fans know someone like that, someone who wastes their life playing Championship Manager. We don’t believe it qualifies any of those people as premier league talent spotters.

 

The other point of consideration is that once the kids are through the door at Arsenal they have Arsene Wenger training them, a wise professor of the game, tactical genius and the man holding the baton behind some of the most gorgeous passing teams in the Premier league this past decade. They’re also playing alongside the cream of European talent. A kid coming to Newcastle will be taught by Joe Kinnear and play alongside Shola Ameobi, he doesn’t stand a chance.

 

Finally, and perhaps most importantly, while Arsenal have had this youth based model in place for many years, their debt currently stands at £318million, but that has not stopped them investing £88million in transfers over the last 5 years. They’ve not done anything on the cheap.

 

Which brings us to Aston Villa. In his recent interview Derek Llambias said:

 

“In five years we would hope to be challenging for everything, we hope to be like Aston Villa.”

 

Ignoring the fact that even when he said it Aston Villa were not challenging for everything, Mr Llambias seems not to grasp at all how Aston Villa have found themselves in their current improved position. For years Doug Ellis ran a tight ship at Villa, only investing within his own means and as a result Aston Villa floundered in mid-table and the fans got on his back.

 

The turning point came with the investment of Randy Lerner who (even as a billionaire who has spent much of his own money) has left a £63million debt according to the latest accounts.

 

This didn’t stop him from backing his manager (without a DOF sat above him) with transfers costing £32million this season.

 

It seems to me that the MD and owner are telling us the big name clubs they’re setting us up to emulate, but their actions speak far louder than words and in practice the reticence to build any debt, the lack of ambition to sign any proven quality displays far more amply that they are actually setting us up like a newly promoted team. One that hopes to get lucky with a mid-table finish, but more than anything is planning for inevitable relegation, whether it comes one season or next.

 

 

- If you enjoyed this article by Chris, there are many more like it available on his blog “A Compendium of Contradictions from Mike Ashley”, located at http://nufc-ashlies.blogspot.com.

 

I agree with most of this, posted by Happy Face on Non-Newcastle residents-Online.

 

HP and recently Ewerk look like a couple of gallant musketeers surrounded by a slavering rabble on N.O.

 

:D

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