Asprilla 96 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 If KK hadn't quit you would be safe by now. I still believe you will stay up but I don't think the club has recovered from that unplanned departure. Tbh if KK hadn't quit we'd be above you. Probably true, and KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew, the big baby should have stuck it out, He could quite easily have fought his corner from within, and made them sack him if they didn't like it, instead he ran away. Fucking coward. The manner of his departure made it virtually impossible to find a replacement of any ability, even if our lot had a slightest clue about the game it would have been difficult, it was impossible given their lack of ability. KK must have seen that and he should have stayed on, but all he wanted was the £££'s It's a minority view but I agree that Keegan is almost as much to blame. The rights and wrongs of his job spec are one thing, but it's undeniable he left us in the shit without a second glance. What did he think would happen? If he was any old manager with no affinity with the club then I would understand more. The fact is though, he's a legend to us and should have known his actions would have had a very big negative impact on the club. It's like a mother walking out on her kids because she wasn't allowed to choose the wallpaper. I agree completely. It's totally Keegan's fault that he put the club on the market, appointed Joe Kinnear as an interim, but then not only extended his contract to the end of the season, but also put the offer of a further 2 years on the table. It's also Keegan's fault that he then failed to go out and appoint a proper manager to ensure our safety. It's also Keegan's fault that after taking the club off the market, he done nothing in the transfer window to ensure our survival, but ensured we were financially in the black though. And anything that KK wasnt at fault for must have been the fans to blame. Don't forget the meeja have to take their part of the blame. Where is Baggio anyway? It's ALL of these things. The fans DO give players a harder time than at other clubs IMO. What makes SJP an intimidating place for the oppostion can also make it an intimidating place for our players. It's not THE reason obviously but it can play a part in making players take the "safe" option sometimes. Also, the media are proper cunts when it comes to our club. They love the whole erratic circus and we're part of what makes the Premiership interesting. Nobody cares about Spurs or Everton or Villa or Wigan etc outside their own fanbase. We seem to capture peoples' imaginations for both good and bad reasons and so the press grab hold of anything bad and blow it up far more than a similar "story" elsewhere. Ashley and co have done nothing for this club. I despise everything that people like Ashley stand for. A quick buck today so he can noisily swill something expensive with his charver mates, all at the expense of something that people lovingly built up over generations. He's a cunt. BUT to say Keegan and his hot headed temper is just "one of those things that can't be avoided" and still revere him as a lover of the club (as someone pointed out, has he ever come back to even WATCH a match when not being paid to do so?)... I just don't agree with it. I don't mind if people say that's just the way he is and admit he's left us in the shit, but to carry on thinking the bloke has the club's best interests at heart... well, let's just say I don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asprilla 96 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ..and btw I LOVE Keegan, I wish he was still our manager more than (almost) anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ..and btw I LOVE Keegan, I wish he was still our manager more than (almost) anything. He'd clearly (with hindsight) been fighting a losing war since before that Chelsea game, by the time he went I don't know how people expected him to stay as he was obviously trench weary. To be a Newcastle manager under the triumvirate of Ashely, Lambrusco and Wise, you've clearly got to be of the sort (like Kinnear) to spout the party bull- one week, then spout it the next without blinking even if it totally contradicts what you said the week before. Keegan isn't like that, and in all honesty I struggle to think of any other current Premiership manager that would accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Depends how you view what's happened and how you view the man but I think KK has too much integrity to just sit there and pick up the money whilst the owner took the piss out of him and the fans. Quite how it's been allowed to get to the stage it's at now without proactive action by those in charge beggars belief though. As Shepherd might say, we're rudderless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) If KK hadn't quit you would be safe by now. I still believe you will stay up but I don't think the club has recovered from that unplanned departure. Tbh if KK hadn't quit we'd be above you. Probably true, and KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew, the big baby should have stuck it out, He could quite easily have fought his corner from within, and made them sack him if they didn't like it, instead he ran away. Fucking coward. The manner of his departure made it virtually impossible to find a replacement of any ability, even if our lot had a slightest clue about the game it would have been difficult, it was impossible given their lack of ability. KK must have seen that and he should have stayed on, but all he wanted was the £££'s It's a minority view but I agree that Keegan is almost as much to blame. The rights and wrongs of his job spec are one thing, but it's undeniable he left us in the shit without a second glance. What did he think would happen? If he was any old manager with no affinity with the club then I would understand more. The fact is though, he's a legend to us and should have known his actions would have had a very big negative impact on the club. It's like a mother walking out on her kids because she wasn't allowed to choose the wallpaper. I agree completely. It's totally Keegan's fault that he put the club on the market, appointed Joe Kinnear as an interim, but then not only extended his contract to the end of the season, but also put the offer of a further 2 years on the table. It's also Keegan's fault that he then failed to go out and appoint a proper manager to ensure our safety. It's also Keegan's fault that after taking the club off the market, he done nothing in the transfer window to ensure our survival, but ensured we were financially in the black though. And anything that KK wasnt at fault for must have been the fans to blame. Don't forget the meeja have to take their part of the blame. Where is Baggio anyway? It's ALL of these things. The fans DO give players a harder time than at other clubs IMO. What makes SJP an intimidating place for the oppostion can also make it an intimidating place for our players. It's not THE reason obviously but it can play a part in making players take the "safe" option sometimes. Also, the media are proper cunts when it comes to our club. They love the whole erratic circus and we're part of what makes the Premiership interesting. Nobody cares about Spurs or Everton or Villa or Wigan etc outside their own fanbase. We seem to capture peoples' imaginations for both good and bad reasons and so the press grab hold of anything bad and blow it up far more than a similar "story" elsewhere. Ashley and co have done nothing for this club. I despise everything that people like Ashley stand for. A quick buck today so he can noisily swill something expensive with his charver mates, all at the expense of something that people lovingly built up over generations. He's a cunt. BUT to say Keegan and his hot headed temper is just "one of those things that can't be avoided" and still revere him as a lover of the club (as someone pointed out, has he ever come back to even WATCH a match when not being paid to do so?)... I just don't agree with it. I don't mind if people say that's just the way he is and admit he's left us in the shit, but to carry on thinking the bloke has the club's best interests at heart... well, let's just say I don't agree. It was me that pointed that out man. I still supported Ashley after Keegan went and started a thread about it. In the 6 months since then, they've not done one thing to fix it though. Statemnents like "KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew" and "Keegan is almost as much to blame" are utter shit .....you might as well blame Allardyce. Edited March 23, 2009 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Ashley's presided over the two shortest managerial tenures in the club's history. And they were consecutive. Takes some fucking doing considering the history of the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It was me that pointed that out man. I still supported Ashley after Keegan went and started a thread about it. In the 6 months since then, they've not done one thing to fix it though. Statemnents like "KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew" and "Keegan is almost as much to blame" are utter shit .....you might as well blame Allardyce. It reminds me of Labour using the Tories last term in power as an excuse for everything for over 10 years (whilst claiming the credit for everything good - including the economy until it all went tits up, now it's "no ones" fault ). It seems valid to begin with, but eventually you realise that it's just hot air covering their lack of progress or own fuck ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Depends how you view what's happened and how you view the man but I think KK has too much integrity to just sit there and pick up the money whilst the owner took the piss out of him and the fans. Quite how it's been allowed to get to the stage it's at now without proactive action by those in charge beggars belief though. As Shepherd might say, we're rudderless. He said that about Man United didn't he? Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It was me that pointed that out man. I still supported Ashley after Keegan went and started a thread about it. In the 6 months since then, they've not done one thing to fix it though. Statemnents like "KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew" and "Keegan is almost as much to blame" are utter shit .....you might as well blame Allardyce. It reminds me of Labour using the Tories last term in power as an excuse for everything for over 10 years (whilst claiming the credit for everything good - including the economy until it all went tits up, now it's "no ones" fault ). It seems valid to begin with, but eventually you realise that it's just hot air covering their lack of progress or own fuck ups. Just like the tories before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Depends how you view what's happened and how you view the man but I think KK has too much integrity to just sit there and pick up the money whilst the owner took the piss out of him and the fans. Quite how it's been allowed to get to the stage it's at now without proactive action by those in charge beggars belief though. As Shepherd might say, we're rudderless. He said that about Man United didn't he? Clueless. Aye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fop 1 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) It was me that pointed that out man. I still supported Ashley after Keegan went and started a thread about it. In the 6 months since then, they've not done one thing to fix it though. Statemnents like "KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew" and "Keegan is almost as much to blame" are utter shit .....you might as well blame Allardyce. It reminds me of Labour using the Tories last term in power as an excuse for everything for over 10 years (whilst claiming the credit for everything good - including the economy until it all went tits up, now it's "no ones" fault ). It seems valid to begin with, but eventually you realise that it's just hot air covering their lack of progress or own fuck ups. Just like the tories before them. Labour were never in power for long enough to be blamed for much, but to hear a minister claiming in 2007 that something that the Tories changed in 1991 was still the problem after 10 years in power is certainly rather Ashley in its degree. Edited March 23, 2009 by Fop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Despite this particular debate I think most of us in the pro-KK camp realise 1) he's not coming back and 2) the club needs to move on and move ahead etc. Yet we're the ones portrayed as living in the past while the regime alludes to KK being to blame to cover up how inert they've been since he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 It was me that pointed that out man. I still supported Ashley after Keegan went and started a thread about it. In the 6 months since then, they've not done one thing to fix it though. Statemnents like "KK is as much to blame for our current mire as Ashley and his crew" and "Keegan is almost as much to blame" are utter shit .....you might as well blame Allardyce. It reminds me of Labour using the Tories last term in power as an excuse for everything for over 10 years (whilst claiming the credit for everything good - including the economy until it all went tits up, now it's "no ones" fault ). It seems valid to begin with, but eventually you realise that it's just hot air covering their lack of progress or own fuck ups. Just like the tories before them. Labour were never in power for long enough to be blamed for much, but to hear a minister claiming in 2007 that something that the Tories changed in 1991 was still the problem after 10 years in power is certainly rather Ashley in its degree. I can't be arsed to argue and don't want to derail what is a football thread, but I clearly remember the tories blaming the previous administration for all our problems well in to the late 80s. And this is pointless comparison anyway, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) One of Harry Enfield's characters (funny by his standards) was the toff Tory MP always arguing with the salt of the earth, staunch union man Labour MP. The tory (who he did spot on) always began his rebutts with "Under the last Labour government..." OT but the matter at hand is depressing as fuck anyway. Edited March 23, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Despite this particular debate I think most of us in the pro-KK camp realise 1) he's not coming back and 2) the club needs to move on and move ahead etc. Yet we're the ones portrayed as living in the past while the regime alludes to KK being to blame to cover up how inert they've been since he left. Aye. Every game still sees a rendition of "one Bobby Robson" but I've vever heard Keegan mentioned by the fans since the Hull game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3977 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Labour were never in power for long enough to be blamed for much, but to hear a minister claiming in 2007 that something that the Tories changed in 1991 was still the problem after 10 years in power is certainly rather Ashley in its degree. On individual policies yes but it's fair comment to accuse the Tories for a sea change in social attitudes - of course Labour should be called on not fixing them but that doesn't negate the point. I'd say its paralleled by some of our problems being over-expectation to some degree which is a legacy of Keegan's first spell as manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hang on, I'm lost here. Is Kevin Keegan Maggie Thatcher then? Who's Arthur Scargill....Dennis Wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hang on, I'm lost here. Is Kevin Keegan Maggie Thatcher then? Who's Arthur Scargill....Dennis Wise? I see KK more as Peter Richardson playing Lee Van Cleef playing Tony Benn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hang on, I'm lost here. Is Kevin Keegan Maggie Thatcher then? Who's Arthur Scargill....Dennis Wise? I see KK more as Peter Richardson playing Lee Van Cleef playing Tony Benn. Is that the Coimic Strip. Never saw any of them like, but it rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hang on, I'm lost here. Is Kevin Keegan Maggie Thatcher then? Who's Arthur Scargill....Dennis Wise? I see KK more as Peter Richardson playing Lee Van Cleef playing Tony Benn. Is that the Coimic Strip. Never saw any of them like, but it rings Aye. Same one had Robbie Coltrane playing Charles Bronson playing Ken Livingstone in it iirc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ....a bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 ....a bell. I knew what you meant anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM4 0 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Depends how you view what's happened and how you view the man but I think KK has too much integrity to just sit there and pick up the money whilst the owner took the piss out of him and the fans. Had it been any other manager, it would have been hard to disagree. But this is Keegan and brings up Keegan's inflated sense of self righteousness in all this. If anything it completely contradicted the whole point of him coming back to this club, let alone all his claims of his love for the club he spouted weeks before telling everyone, including the fans, to fuck off. If anything it shows he has very little integrity or at least stupidly misplaced integrity. He loves his principles more than this club. Contrarily to Kets I certainly don't feel the Keegan love... he lobbed a huge tree trunk onto the camel's back. If we go down I'll hate him along with Ashley and the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Depends how you view what's happened and how you view the man but I think KK has too much integrity to just sit there and pick up the money whilst the owner took the piss out of him and the fans. Had it been any other manager, it would have been hard to disagree. But this is Keegan and brings up Keegan's inflated sense of self righteousness in all this. If anything it completely contradicted the whole point of him coming back to this club, let alone all his claims of his love for the club he spouted weeks before telling everyone, including the fans, to fuck off. If anything it shows he has very little integrity or at least stupidly misplaced integrity. He loves his principles more than this club. Contrarily to Kets I certainly don't feel the Keegan love... he lobbed a huge tree trunk onto the camel's back. If we go down I'll hate him along with Ashley and the rest. Tbf Matt, without agreeing with any of that, I can see why you might think that. In any case, even if all that were the case, you have to blame Ashley for bringing him back, ultimately. Been done to death like and you get the feeling it'll all be settled out of court and hush-hush anyway. Keegan can't win on that score either though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think KK leaving has an awful lot to do with our state. Not only that mind, I think that was the start of the decline, or at least the transfer window before it. Since then there seems to have been fuck up after fuck up including appointing JFK after scouring for a new manager and the things the next window threw up (incoming wasn't too bad considering, but I still cant get my head around selling Given mid season when we are staring at relegation, for THAT amount of money). I don't really blame KK for leaving though, not really. But the one main thing is that none of us know the whole story. What was said or what went on etc. Until then, we are left to assume and pick bones out of things that have been said. Hopefully it will come out one day. I know this is old ground now, but yes I think he did leave us in the mire. I'd also have liked him to have came out and said more to the fans if they meant that much too him. All I recall from then was how pissed off I was that when the club finally did say something, it wasnt to the fans, it was some shite to cover their own backs and start their case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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