Radgina 1 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 In fact, let's say the methods are entirely justified. If we are "going to find them folks what done this" we need to be tough. Champion. Abuse the shit out of them, but don't you thing we should have the decency to apologise & compensate detainees for their time and energy if released without charge? 106662[/snapback] How about we throw this in the hat.....watched Real Story last night in which they were talking to "victims" of the Sharm-el- sheikh and Bali terrorist bombings. Altho victims of both 9/11 and 7/7 have received charitable and compensatory help from the government the victims of terrorism abroad have received nothing, not even counselling for PTS disorder. A man whose son was killed in Sharm-el-sheikh has taken it upon himself on behalf of other vicims and their families to try and gain some recompense...the advice he was given by Mr Straw was to sue the "perpetrators"...in his own words how the hell do you sue a suicide bomber !! In the same vein an Australian who was injured in the bombings has received financial help from his government, is being treated at a private medical institution with all bills paid and has had his home and car re-structured for his injuries at his governments expense . So as far as compensation for some stupid kids who "decided" to nip over to Afghanistan to see what the craic was and have some huge Naan breads????? goes I think you may find many people against it. 106664[/snapback] That's a disgrace. They're jipping the victims on a technicality I suppose, those victims weren't the responsibility of the British government at the time. Did British victims of 9/11 get compensation from the British or American government? American I guess otherwise the precedent would have been there. Never watched it like so that may be presumptious. However stupid those lads might have been though, they suffered directly at the hands of the British and American governments. Whether citizens abroad should be compensated by their own country is another matter. 106693[/snapback] British victims were compensated by the American government I believe so your correct, no precedent was set. I think the point they were trying to make was that ALL victims of terrorist activities should be treated alike and our Government was disitnctly lacking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 4821 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 (edited) Anybody who has seen the documentary "Swordfish" will know how real terrorists are dealt with.... Edited March 14, 2006 by Holden McGroin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 British victims were compensated by the American government I believe so your correct, no precedent was set. I think the point they were trying to make was that ALL victims of terrorist activities should be treated alike and our Government was disitnctly lacking.... 106696[/snapback] Not just on victim support.. On March 3, 2005, (Abu Bakar) Bashir was found guilty of conspiracy over the 2002 attacks (in Bali), but was found not guilty of the charges surrounding the 2003 bomb (on the Marriott Hotel in Jakarta). He was sentenced to two and a half years imprisonment. On 17 August 2005, as part of the tradition of remissions for Indonesia's Independence Day, Bashir's jail term was cut by 4 months and 15 days. The man found guilty got less time than hundreds have spent in Guantanamo who haven't even been charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 What annoys me are arsewipes who post the kind of anti-West drivel I see in this thread, they're too stupid to realise that the very principles they're undermining are those that allow them to post their shite. If they really think we're so bad my advice to them is that they piss off and join those they clearly support. Hunting around to find any snippet of information that can be used to undermine the role of our people in this battle is showing support for the terrorists in my eyes. It increases their strength against the West and they know it too. 106606[/snapback] If you want to be governed by a system where people (innocent or not) are locked up, abused or killed without trial why don't you piss off to a country where that kind of thing is acceptable. 106649[/snapback] Err, but I don't. According to people such as yourself though, I already live in such a country. Wouldn't it be an eye opener for people like you if this country really was like that. 106673[/snapback] Well if you don't, why are you condoning that behaviour from your own and other goverments? I never suggested you already live in such a country, we have a fine tradition of law and order based on our courts of law and trial by jury, but if the abuse of human rights isn't commented upon and highlighted it will only get worse. You're like one of them 16 year old lasses with a little shit for a bairn who won't have a word said against it. Sit their pissing yourselfself laughing while it's effing and blinding around the bus and getting all offended when someone suggests you discipline the bairn. The type of bairn that grows up to be a twocking charver. It's not unpatriotic to slag off your government. It is unpatriotic to let them break the basic human rights my Granda fought for. 106688[/snapback] Funny, that's how I see you tbh. You couldn't be more wrong about me, my kids would testify to it like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muscle Mary 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I've seen people die standing up for what we believe in the West. Fuckers like you don't have a clue. We? Martyrs are of no use to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 We? Martyrs are of no use to anyone. 106805[/snapback] Aye, we. You know, the average, normal Western person who values our freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34183 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 We? Martyrs are of no use to anyone. 106805[/snapback] Aye, we. You know, the average, normal Western person who values our freedom. 106824[/snapback] Sounding like George Bush tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I love the way HTL can't make a distinction between Muslim extremists and other Muslims yet feels able to lecture us civilians on 'the truth'. 106625[/snapback] What are you babbling on about now, Alex? I'm a civilian mate, same as you. The difference is that I have some pride in my country and what we stand for, you prefer to slag it off at every opportunity. As I said earlier, you know where to go. 106671[/snapback] Not quite sure how having a problem with something the American government is doing is slagging my own country off. Even if I was slagging off the British government it wouldn't be the same as slagging off my own country. Still I wouldn't expect someone who apparently can't tell the difference between Muslim Fundamentalists and moderate Muslims to be able to make that distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 And you know this FOR A FACT? How about you define a DUBIOUS CIRCUMSTANCE? Please take into account that when these suspected terrorists are nabbed, the people doing the nabbing are under extreme pressure. Pressure of having their head cut off with a rusty blade. I would never claim we get it right all the time and I would never claim we have no bad apples. No doubt you believe we should be expected to get it right all the time and that we will never have any bad apples. Wake up and become a part of the real world, mate. This is no joking matter and shouldn't be taken lightly. Idealists passing judgement on people living in dangerous circumstances, doing something they have no understanding of, would make me laugh if it wasn't so serious. 106581[/snapback] The only fact reported in the documentary was that Guantanamo has housed 750 suspects over 5 years, 500 are still there, 10 have been charged, none have been convicted. Everything else was pesonal testimony and presented as such. That one fact tells a story though. a cumulative 2500 years served on the strength of zero convictions. EDIT: And no-one expects perfection. What you'd hope is that the bad apples are exposed and lessons are learnt. Not that anyone expressing an interest in finding out about it is shouted down as a wanker. 106585[/snapback] The problem is that the way idealists such as yourself set about 'finding out about it' undermines the people we have working in these dangerous places. You put others lives at risk but you don't give a shit about any of our people having their heads cut off with a rusty blade, because you're not in the firing line. Try it, is my suggestion to you rather than just gobbing off. 106613[/snapback] How does challenging the human rights issues of a place like Guantanamo Bay undermine, for example, British troops working in Iraq? 106619[/snapback] 106668[/snapback] I thought you didn't duck questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 You can't half tell who have been "educated" by fancy dan left wing marxist/reformist lecturers here...who know absolutely fuck all about anything in the real world ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 You can't half tell who have been "educated" by fancy dan left wing marxist/reformist lecturers here...who know absolutely fuck all about anything in the real world ... 106854[/snapback] That's a nice sweeping generalisation there Leazes, can I assume you left school at 14 with no qualifications? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 You can't half tell who have been "educated" by fancy dan left wing marxist/reformist lecturers here...who know absolutely fuck all about anything in the real world ... 106854[/snapback] That's a nice sweeping generalisation there Leazes, can I assume you left school at 14 with no qualifications? 106862[/snapback] nah, but I've seen a GCSE maths paper and could have done it at 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 You can't half tell who have been "educated" by fancy dan left wing marxist/reformist lecturers here...who know absolutely fuck all about anything in the real world ... 106854[/snapback] That's a nice sweeping generalisation there Leazes, can I assume you left school at 14 with no qualifications? 106862[/snapback] nah, but I've seen a GCSE maths paper and could have done it at 12 106868[/snapback] That's GREAT © congratulations on completely missing my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) What annoys me are arsewipes who post the kind of anti-West drivel I see in this thread, they're too stupid to realise that the very principles they're undermining are those that allow them to post their shite. If they really think we're so bad my advice to them is that they piss off and join those they clearly support. Hunting around to find any snippet of information that can be used to undermine the role of our people in this battle is showing support for the terrorists in my eyes. It increases their strength against the West and they know it too. 106606[/snapback] If you want to be governed by a system where people (innocent or not) are locked up, abused or killed without trial why don't you piss off to a country where that kind of thing is acceptable. 106649[/snapback] Err, but I don't. According to people such as yourself though, I already live in such a country. Wouldn't it be an eye opener for people like you if this country really was like that. 106673[/snapback] Well if you don't, why are you condoning that behaviour from your own and other goverments? I never suggested you already live in such a country, we have a fine tradition of law and order based on our courts of law and trial by jury, but if the abuse of human rights isn't commented upon and highlighted it will only get worse. You're like one of them 16 year old lasses with a little shit for a bairn who won't have a word said against it. Sit their pissing yourselfself laughing while it's effing and blinding around the bus and getting all offended when someone suggests you discipline the bairn. The type of bairn that grows up to be a twocking charver. It's not unpatriotic to slag off your government. It is unpatriotic to let them break the basic human rights my Granda fought for. 106688[/snapback] with all due respect to your Grandad and everyone else who died, and you should pay a visit to the Cenotaph and mix with all the War Veterans afterwards in the pubs etc it is very moving, they gave their lives to preserve human rights, not to assist people who wish to take them away from you to flourish, but if only you could see that is the type you are assisting by opposing basic preventative and precautionary measures Edited March 15, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 (edited) What annoys me are arsewipes who post the kind of anti-West drivel I see in this thread, they're too stupid to realise that the very principles they're undermining are those that allow them to post their shite. If they really think we're so bad my advice to them is that they piss off and join those they clearly support. Hunting around to find any snippet of information that can be used to undermine the role of our people in this battle is showing support for the terrorists in my eyes. It increases their strength against the West and they know it too. 106606[/snapback] If you want to be governed by a system where people (innocent or not) are locked up, abused or killed without trial why don't you piss off to a country where that kind of thing is acceptable. 106649[/snapback] Err, but I don't. According to people such as yourself though, I already live in such a country. Wouldn't it be an eye opener for people like you if this country really was like that. 106673[/snapback] Well if you don't, why are you condoning that behaviour from your own and other goverments? I never suggested you already live in such a country, we have a fine tradition of law and order based on our courts of law and trial by jury, but if the abuse of human rights isn't commented upon and highlighted it will only get worse. You're like one of them 16 year old lasses with a little shit for a bairn who won't have a word said against it. Sit their pissing yourselfself laughing while it's effing and blinding around the bus and getting all offended when someone suggests you discipline the bairn. The type of bairn that grows up to be a twocking charver. It's not unpatriotic to slag off your government. It is unpatriotic to let them break the basic human rights my Granda fought for. 106688[/snapback] with all due respect to your Grandad and everyone else who died, and you should pay a visit to the Cenotaph and mix with all the War Veterans afterwards in the pubs etc it is very moving, they gave their lives to preserve human rights, not to assist people who wish to take them away from you to flourish, but if only you could see that is the type you are assisting by opposing basic preventative and precautionary measures 106871[/snapback] I didn't know you were a war veteran Leazes. Edited March 15, 2006 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Incidentally I think we all want to take precautionary measures against further terrorist attacks. It's just, from a personal point of view, I don't think the way America has behaved with the people at Guantanamo Bay is doing that. Quite the opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 What annoys me are arsewipes who post the kind of anti-West drivel I see in this thread, they're too stupid to realise that the very principles they're undermining are those that allow them to post their shite. If they really think we're so bad my advice to them is that they piss off and join those they clearly support. Hunting around to find any snippet of information that can be used to undermine the role of our people in this battle is showing support for the terrorists in my eyes. It increases their strength against the West and they know it too. 106606[/snapback] If you want to be governed by a system where people (innocent or not) are locked up, abused or killed without trial why don't you piss off to a country where that kind of thing is acceptable. 106649[/snapback] Err, but I don't. According to people such as yourself though, I already live in such a country. Wouldn't it be an eye opener for people like you if this country really was like that. 106673[/snapback] Well if you don't, why are you condoning that behaviour from your own and other goverments? I never suggested you already live in such a country, we have a fine tradition of law and order based on our courts of law and trial by jury, but if the abuse of human rights isn't commented upon and highlighted it will only get worse. You're like one of them 16 year old lasses with a little shit for a bairn who won't have a word said against it. Sit their pissing yourselfself laughing while it's effing and blinding around the bus and getting all offended when someone suggests you discipline the bairn. The type of bairn that grows up to be a twocking charver. It's not unpatriotic to slag off your government. It is unpatriotic to let them break the basic human rights my Granda fought for. 106688[/snapback] with all due respect to your Grandad and everyone else who died, and you should pay a visit to the Cenotaph and mix with all the War Veterans afterwards in the pubs etc it is very moving, they gave their lives to preserve human rights, not to assist people who wish to take them away from you to flourish, but if only you could see that is the type you are assisting by opposing basic preventative and precautionary measures 106871[/snapback] I didn't know you were a war veteran Leazes. 106872[/snapback] I'm not, but its called showing genuine respect for the War Veterans and War Dead, its genuinely moving and I bet all those who did die in those wars would be horrified if they saw what was happening to the country now, because they certainly didn't do it to allow our freedom and heritage to be eroded by people being allowed to hide behind the human rights banner by people too gullible to realise they are supporting potential terrorists.....also with a stated aim to wish to fly their own flag just like in the "legal" war...and in war if you want to win only the naive think you do it playing by boy scout rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Incidentally I think we all want to take precautionary measures against further terrorist attacks. It's just, from a personal point of view, I don't think the way America has behaved with the people at Guantanamo Bay is doing that. Quite the opposite in fact. 106877[/snapback] In their eyes, they are. And I wouldn't like to be on the recieving end if they are wrong about just one of them, would you ? For my money, every one of them is there because they have good ground for suspicion, and thats good enough for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I didn't know you were a war veteran Leazes. 106872[/snapback] I'm not 106878[/snapback] Exactly, so you are in no position to comment on what War Veterans may feel about Guantanamo Bay are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 Incidentally I think we all want to take precautionary measures against further terrorist attacks. It's just, from a personal point of view, I don't think the way America has behaved with the people at Guantanamo Bay is doing that. Quite the opposite in fact. 106877[/snapback] In their eyes, they are. And I wouldn't like to be on the recieving end if they are wrong about just one of them, would you ? For my money, every one of them is there because they have good ground for suspicion, and thats good enough for me 106879[/snapback] I wouldn't like to be imprisoned for years without trial or access to proper legal advice just for being in the worng place at the wrong time. Would you? As for the second paragraph, it shows that you have plenty of the naivety you accuse others of having if you believe the official line from the US and our Governments on this. Have you already forgotten that this war was started on a completely false premise? You might think this war is a just one, but that doesn't alter the fact we were lied to about the reasons for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 By the way Leazes, are you advocating imprisoning people for years purely on the basis of suspicion? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein used to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17628 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 By the way Leazes, are you advocating imprisoning people for years purely on the basis of suspicion? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein used to do? 106885[/snapback] Just got up to here reading this thread and my irony meter has gone off the scale. Half the things that HTL advocates (and iirc this includes executing children and publically beating criminals) would fit quite nicely into an extremist state like Iraq that we are "fighting" against. He just can't see it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I didn't know you were a war veteran Leazes. 106872[/snapback] I'm not 106878[/snapback] Exactly, so you are in no position to comment on what War Veterans may feel about Guantanamo Bay are you? 106880[/snapback] If I'm not, then who is ? BTW, I'm 51 not 81. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 I didn't know you were a war veteran Leazes. 106872[/snapback] I'm not 106878[/snapback] Exactly, so you are in no position to comment on what War Veterans may feel about Guantanamo Bay are you? 106880[/snapback] If I'm not, then who is ? BTW, I'm 51 not 81. 107004[/snapback] War veterans themselves, funnily enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 15, 2006 Share Posted March 15, 2006 By the way Leazes, are you advocating imprisoning people for years purely on the basis of suspicion? Isn't that what Saddam Hussein used to do? 106885[/snapback] Just got up to here reading this thread and my irony meter has gone off the scale. Half the things that HTL advocates (and iirc this includes executing children and publically beating criminals) would fit quite nicely into an extremist state like Iraq that we are "fighting" against. He just can't see it though. 106921[/snapback] I reckon he is just looking after what he percieves as the best interests of his own country, like most of us. However, unlike a lot of people on here, I don't see how allowing potential terrorists on the streets is a good thing...like it or not we are at war, like we were twice in the last century, just of a different type, against people who want to change the world to one of their liking and take away our freedom, and going by boy scout rules against such bastards and cowards is out of the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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