Footage shows G20 death man push

[Park Life 70]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

 

I think you're talking shit.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

 

I think you're talking shit.

Mr. Pot, have you met Mr. Kettle?

Edited April 8, 2009 by alex

[Park Life 70]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

 

I think you're talking shit.

Mr. Black, have you met Mr. Kettle?

 

Love the way you apparently know the mix of demonstrators having never been on an anti-globalisation type demo. As I said talking shit.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

 

I think you're talking shit.

Mr. Black, have you met Mr. Kettle?

 

Love the way you apparently know the mix of demonstrators having never been on an anti-globalisation type demo. As I said talking shit.

You're huffed because it's you in a nutshell though

Edited April 8, 2009 by alex

[NJS 3954]

Love the way you apparently know the mix of demonstrators having never been on an anti-globalisation type demo. As I said talking shit.

 

Slightly different occasion but every single one of the protestors who invaded Stansted a couple of months ago met Alex's definition to a tee.

[Renton 17529]

It seemed to be quite an eclectic mix of twats tbf.

[Park Life 70]

Love the way you apparently know the mix of demonstrators having never been on an anti-globalisation type demo. As I said talking shit.

 

Slightly different occasion but every single one of the protestors who invaded Stansted a couple of months ago met Alex's definition to a tee.

 

Good on them, at least they are doing something.

[Park Life 70]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

I don't think he was in the demo, just on his way home from work.

Irrespective of that it's the demonstrators arguing his case. Not saying the policeman was in the right because he clearly wasn't. To say he was just walking down the street as Rob suggests is bollocks though. He was being what I suppose you'd call 'mildly provocative'.

 

What does it matter who's arguing his case? He was more or less a bystander who is now dead.

It matters who is arguing his case in regard to the bit about demonstrators (or to be more specific - some of them) wanting it both ways. That's all.

 

I think it's his family arguing the case now - is it not?

 

I hope they get compensation as well.

I was just going off the article. Not really the main issue anyway, more me taking issue with the fact the protestors behaved like pricks then wanted to be treated with kid gloves. Mainly because they're little Tarquins and Isabellas who only have to deal with the police when they're going through a rebellious gap year phase before trying to get a job with the banks they were chucking bricks at 18 months earlier. You know the type

 

I think you're talking shit.

Mr. Black, have you met Mr. Kettle?

 

Love the way you apparently know the mix of demonstrators having never been on an anti-globalisation type demo. As I said talking shit.

You're huffed because it's you in a nutshell though

 

Not in a fucking Huff. <_<

[bobbyshinton 59]

Bloke dead, family missing a loved one.

 

Protester or not fucking tragic.

[Park Life 70]

Bloke dead, family missing a loved one.

 

Protester or not fucking tragic.

 

Agreed.

[Guest alex]

Bloke dead, family missing a loved one.

 

Protester or not fucking tragic.

Cockney though

[bobbyshinton 59]

Bloke dead, family missing a loved one.

 

Protester or not fucking tragic.

Cockney though

 

 

Millwall though

[Fop 1]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

[Fop 1]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

He wasn't a demonstrator, just someone corralled in by the police whilst about his business (quite a lot of people got penned in like that during those demonstrations).

[NJS 3954]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

 

 

He got his hands out of his pockets and used them to break his fall - if he'd landed on his chest/face with his hands still stuck I may have agreed with you but a "normal" fall for example if he'd tripped couldn't cause a heart attack.

[Guest alex]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

[Guest alex]

The demonstrators seem to want it both ways. I.e. do what they want yet pushing someone who wouldn't get out the way is terrible. Echo NJS's comments about the police but the bloke knew what he was doing. Not saying he deserved his fate before someone levels that at me but he was clearly a heart attack waiting to happen.

 

He wasn't a demonstrator

I know.

[Renton 17529]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

 

A lot of the protestors were represenative of muslim groups etc, I doubt these were singled out for better treatement a la Fop's theory that the police are 'insitutionally racist' against white christian people.

[Fop 1]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

 

 

He got his hands out of his pockets and used them to break his fall - if he'd landed on his chest/face with his hands still stuck I may have agreed with you but a "normal" fall for example if he'd tripped couldn't cause a heart attack.

 

In all honesty that police officer should know about hitting someone with their hands in their pockets (its a time when someone is at their most vulnerable to such attacks, in many cases people tangle themselves and cannot get their hands out in time to break their fall).

 

He maybe still did smack his head in that fall (can't be seen), but if he had and if that had set off a bleed and killed him, the police officer might have actually been in some trouble rather than getting off scot-free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As it happens the combination of the baton blow, the pretty forceful push (that alone would be assault if you did it to anyone, without a shadow of doubt), the fall and the stress of the whole situation undoubtedly set off the heart attack.

 

But the actual cause of death would still be the same in either case, the police officers actions, just one might have stood a chance in court.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Fop

[Guest alex]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

 

A lot of the protestors were represenative of muslim groups etc, I doubt these were singled out for better treatement a la Fop's theory that the police are 'insitutionally racist' against white christian people.

Not really interested in discussing this again tbh mate. He will be though

[Renton 17529]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

 

A lot of the protestors were represenative of muslim groups etc, I doubt these were singled out for better treatement a la Fop's theory that the police are 'insitutionally racist' against white christian people.

Not really interested in discussing this again tbh mate. He will be though

 

I know, just think the notion of an institutionally racist anti-white police force is quite amusing.

[Renton 17529]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

 

 

He got his hands out of his pockets and used them to break his fall - if he'd landed on his chest/face with his hands still stuck I may have agreed with you but a "normal" fall for example if he'd tripped couldn't cause a heart attack.

 

In all honesty that police officer should know about hitting someone with their hands in their pockets (its a time when someone is at their most vulnerable to such attacks, in many cases people tangle themselves and cannot get their hands out in time to break their fall).

 

He maybe still did smack his head in that fall (can't be seen), but if he had and if that had set off a bleed and killed him, the police officer might have actually been in some trouble rather than getting off scot-free.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As it happens the combination of the baton blow, the pretty forceful push (that alone would be assault if you did it to anyone, without a shadow of doubt), the fall and the stress of the whole situation undoubtedly set off the heart attack.

 

But the actual cause of death would still be the same in either case, the police officers actions, just one might have stood a chance in court.

 

Blah blah blah. FFS Fop, do you never get tired spouting utter drivel?

[Fop 1]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

 

That's why they'll get off scot-free (they probably would have anyway even with say a brain bleed), but the reality is that the officers actions caused it.

 

But it's no defence to say it may have happened anyway, as the same can be said of many things including weakness that lead to bleeds from minor blows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The second bit is also very important, because it was a totally disproportionate use of force, and as mentioned that wouldn't have (and hasn't) happened in other cases (up to and including throwing metal fencing at the police).

 

People are people and have to be policed the same, not some more "sensitively" than others.

[Fop 1]

Ah Renton.... I see you've had to resort to the insults and drivel already. New record.

 

 

Almost as funny as Smith's "managed investigation" comment - Fop is quite sure it will be.

[Guest alex]

I have no respect whatsoever for the police but people calling this "manslaughter" are wrong imo.

Hardly.

 

Pretty much a direct link, just as much as happening to land wrongly bang your head and set off a terminal bleed.

 

There's also the issue of equality of policing again (would they have done this to say a Tamil protester doing the same thing?).

That's conjecture but unlikely to bear up to scrutiny imo. Agree about the 2nd bit though.

 

That's why they'll get off scot-free (they probably would have anyway even with say a brain bleed), but the reality is that the officers actions caused it.

 

But it's no defence to say it may have happened anyway, as the same can be said of many things including weakness that lead to bleeds from minor blows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The second bit is also very important, because it was a totally disproportionate use of force, and as mentioned that wouldn't have (and hasn't) happened in other cases (up to and including throwing metal fencing at the police).

 

People are people and have to be policed the same, not some more "sensitively" than others.

Edited April 8, 2009 by alex