Question for the socialists among us.

[Park Life 70]

Renton :

 

What I meant is that poverty, over-population and Catholic/Muslim encouragement of breeding without consequence are all linked. Of course I'd loce to see a panacea that allows 10bn or more humans to inhabit the earth in peace at a reasonable standard of living but it isn't easy due to capitalism, politics and religion.

 

My comments on the pandemic were meant as a suggestion that it could be one possible "hand forcing" action to address over-population - its a natural/simplistic event which would over-ride "impossible" obstructions.

 

My Mam was very much of the view that all life was "sacred" and as long as people were loved then the suffering was a bearable consequence - I think that the suffering caused by poverty etc is too high a price and I would rather have fewer people who are "happier".

 

I fully accept that "promoting" a pandemic beyond anything else in history could be a coward's way out of suggesting genocide which I could never sanction but I still feel that without a miracle food or poverty relieving invention the human race is doomed if it comtinues at present groeth rates.

 

This also ignores cliamte change of course.

 

 

It was doomed from day one.

[Fop 1]

So no admission of idiothood and/or dissembling from you then eh, Renty? Never mind.

 

Care to answer the point about China, India, Brazil and the USA Fop? As far as the world's resources go, overpopulation in Africa and Latin America isn't even really a problem in any case.

 

India and Brazil have vast poverty, do you not know this?

 

China has raised millions out of poverty, helped by the curb on their population growth.

 

And overpopulation in "Africa isn't a problem". It's the cause of most of the death, famine and war in Africa, directly or indirectly.

 

Of the extra 3 billion coming to the planet in the next few years almost all of them will be in Africa and West/Central Asia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of interest how many people do you believe the planet can support to a Western style of living?

[Fop 1]

All the people living in the whole of Africa can fit into Texas. FACT.

 

Everyone on the planet can stand on the Isle of Wight, but that doesn't mean the Isle of Wight (or the whole of the UK or the whole of the EU) can feed and provide a high standard of living to those people (never mind the environment and every other living thing).

 

And we're going to get 3 Billion more people in the next 25-50 years, so even the Isle of Wight isn't big enough any more.

 

When Rob W starts worrying about these things I'll take notice.

 

Rob W will be dead by then, so it's not his problem.

[Park Life 70]

All the people living in the whole of Africa can fit into Texas. FACT.

 

Everyone on the planet can stand on the Isle of Wight, but that doesn't mean the Isle of Wight (or the whole of the UK or the whole of the EU) can feed and provide a high standard of living to those people (never mind the environment and every other living thing).

 

And we're going to get 3 Billion more people in the next 25-50 years, so even the Isle of Wight isn't big enough any more.

 

When Rob W starts worrying about these things I'll take notice.

 

Rob W will be dead by then, so it's not his problem.

 

[Fop 1]

To a large degree poverty is a symptom of run away population, and it does tend to feed back into itself.

 

I'd suggest it was the over way round, but it's chicken and egg stuff. But if you really regard reducing child mortality as an unfortunate side effect of aid programs (this is what you said, right?), why don't you simply advocate the benefits of genocide instead?

 

Except it's not, if you give a decent stand or living to the poor they don't instantly stop breeding (again look at immigrant birth rates in the UK, even 2nd and 3rd generation).

 

Yet you can reduce poverty quite quickly by reducing birth rate (look at the places in Africa where it is being done, or even China for that matter).

 

Beside Rob W probably made a living hunting street children in Brazil.

[Guest alex]

Rob's a fucking wum man

[Park Life 70]

To a large degree poverty is a symptom of run away population, and it does tend to feed back into itself.

 

I'd suggest it was the over way round, but it's chicken and egg stuff. But if you really regard reducing child mortality as an unfortunate side effect of aid programs (this is what you said, right?), why don't you simply advocate the benefits of genocide instead?

 

Except it's not, if you give a decent stand or living to the poor they don't instantly stop breeding (again look at immigrant birth rates in the UK, even 2nd and 3rd generation).

 

Yet you can reduce poverty quite quickly by reducing birth rate (look at the places in Africa where it is being done, or even China for that matter).

 

Beside Rob W probably made a living hunting street children in Brazil.

 

...to eclectic ambient techno I shouldn't wonder.

[Renton 17633]

So no admission of idiothood and/or dissembling from you then eh, Renty? Never mind.

 

Care to answer the point about China, India, Brazil and the USA Fop? As far as the world's resources go, overpopulation in Africa and Latin America isn't even really a problem in any case.

 

India and Brazil have vast poverty, do you not know this?

 

China has raised millions out of poverty, helped by the curb on their population growth.

 

And overpopulation in "Africa isn't a problem". It's the cause of most of the death, famine and war in Africa, directly or indirectly.

 

Of the extra 3 billion coming to the planet in the next few years almost all of them will be in Africa and West/Central Asia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Out of interest how many people do you believe the planet can support to a Western style of living?

 

I got what you were on about from the start Fop, I merely highlighted a passage of text that was funny to read. I responded to NJS only because I think he came across a bit hypocritical in his views, he's clarifed matters now though.

 

But of course in all this I am talking in the context of giving aid to developing countries during a pandemic Fop. I seriously don't think this is going to overburden the world through overpopulation and imo is the only humane thing to do. Last time it was you that didn't want to digress from the OP wasn't it?

 

And I agree over population is a huge problem, unfortunately it has many causes (mainly cultural, educational, and theological) and I don't think it is ever really going to be tackled successfully.

 

The last question is a really interesting one. If we maximised existing technologies (including GM food and nuclear power etc I'd guess about the present world population (8 billion)? That's a complete guess though, as stated. What do you think?

[Park Life 70]

Western style living is killing the planet.

[Fop 1]

The last question is a really interesting one. If we maximised existing technologies (including GM food and nuclear power etc I'd guess about the present world population (8 billion)? That's a complete guess though, as stated. What do you think?

 

Probably about 3 billion, to live in something approaching harmony with the planet, and living to a decent standard of Western living, not just turning the whole of the planet into Lincolnshire combined with London.

 

Western style living is killing the planet.

Well the planet will survive, about anything else though.

[Park Life 70]

The last question is a really interesting one. If we maximised existing technologies (including GM food and nuclear power etc I'd guess about the present world population (8 billion)? That's a complete guess though, as stated. What do you think?

 

Probably about 3 billion, to live in something approaching harmony with the planet, and living to a decent standard of Western living, not just turning the whole of the planet into Lincolnshire combined with London.

 

Western style living is killing the planet.

Well the planet will survive, about anything else though.

 

The code.

[ChezGiven 0]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

[ChezGiven 0]

Western style living is killing the planet.

 

Low slung sofas and ergonomic kitchens have a lot to answer for.

[Park Life 70]

Western style living is killing the planet.

 

Low slung sofas and ergonomic kitchens have a lot to answer for.

 

What happened to that butter mountain and wine lake? The public deserve an ans.

[Guest alex]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

[Park Life 70]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

[Fop 1]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

[Guest alex]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

It's true I'm afraid. If Nessie exists it has to be supernatural. Nice spot all the same though.

[Guest alex]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

The Scottish Tourist Board don't.

[Renton 17633]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

The Scottish Tourist Board don't.

 

I was quite pleasently surprised by the candour and skepticism of the boatsman I was with last time I was at Loch Ness. Talking himself out of a job.

 

I'd imagine there is enough water in Loch ness to make everyone a cup of tea a million times over at a guess, it's pretty deep. Another one I remember was there was enough tea in China to fill the Black sea. Erm.....

[Guest alex]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

The Scottish Tourist Board don't.

 

I was quite pleasently surprised by the candour and skepticism of the boatsman I was with last time I was at Loch Ness. Talking himself out of a job.

 

I'd imagine there is enough water in Loch ness to make everyone a cup of tea a million times over at a guess, it's pretty deep. Another one I remember was there was enough tea in China to fill the Black sea. Erm.....

Aye, it's massive. Very deep I believe. I don't think anyone actually believes in it anyway though, do they? And that famous photo has been easily replicated. Quite an atmosperic place though.

[Renton 17633]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

The Scottish Tourist Board don't.

 

I was quite pleasently surprised by the candour and skepticism of the boatsman I was with last time I was at Loch Ness. Talking himself out of a job.

 

I'd imagine there is enough water in Loch ness to make everyone a cup of tea a million times over at a guess, it's pretty deep. Another one I remember was there was enough tea in China to fill the Black sea. Erm.....

Aye, it's massive. Very deep I believe. I don't think anyone actually believes in it anyway though, do they? And that famous photo has been easily replicated. Quite an atmosperic place though.

 

My Aunty (who's Scottish) is vociferously adamant about Nessie's existence, but she has a collection of other odd beliefs. I guess other than her there will be a few gullible yanks and of of course Parky.

[Guest alex]

There's enough water in Loch Ness to make a cup of tea for everyone in the world.

One lump or two?

Not sure if that's even true but I seem to remember hearing it once. There isn't enough to eat in it to sustain any large predators though. Apparently.

 

That is what they want you to think.

The Scottish Tourist Board don't.

 

I was quite pleasently surprised by the candour and skepticism of the boatsman I was with last time I was at Loch Ness. Talking himself out of a job.

 

I'd imagine there is enough water in Loch ness to make everyone a cup of tea a million times over at a guess, it's pretty deep. Another one I remember was there was enough tea in China to fill the Black sea. Erm.....

Aye, it's massive. Very deep I believe. I don't think anyone actually believes in it anyway though, do they? And that famous photo has been easily replicated. Quite an atmosperic place though.

 

My Aunty (who's Scottish) is vociferously adamant about Nessie's existence, but she has a collection of other odd beliefs. I guess other than her there will be a few gullible yanks and of of course Parky.

A bottle a day keeps the doctor away?