Sir Bobby: Don't blame Mike Ashley for Newcastle's decline

[Fop 1]

Can agree with SBR 100%, when the facts are put in place regarding club personnel he's bang right and has been in this game way too long to talk "a load of shite".

 

A successful businessman made educated judgements on his recruitment and he was let down, unfortunately he chose the most unforgiving club in the world. Nobody makes that kind of money and then thinks know I will go destroy potentially the biggest club in the country. Ashley knows he is sitting on a gold mine with Newcastle and I bet he's as pissed off as we are.

 

It's still his fault in the end though, I just think he's clueless at running a football club, just because you're good at running a bargain basement sports/chav fashion store in the boom doesn't mean you're necessarily much good at anything else.

 

His recruitment has been shocking, with the exception of Mort, even Keegan was in the context that he was never going to work under the structure he ended up being forced under.

[Tooj 17]

Can agree with SBR 100%, when the facts are put in place regarding club personnel he's bang right and has been in this game way too long to talk "a load of shite".

 

A successful businessman made educated judgements on his recruitment and he was let down, unfortunately he chose the most unforgiving club in the world. Nobody makes that kind of money and then thinks know I will go destroy potentially the biggest club in the country. Ashley knows he is sitting on a gold mine with Newcastle and I bet he's as pissed off as we are.

Educated? Weren't Jiminez, Wise & Llambias a case of jobs for the boys?

 

Pele has been in the game for "way too long" and he talks more bullshit than most on this board.

[Asprilla 96]

Can agree with SBR 100%, when the facts are put in place regarding club personnel he's bang right and has been in this game way too long to talk "a load of shite".

 

A successful businessman made educated judgements on his recruitment and he was let down, unfortunately he chose the most unforgiving club in the world. Nobody makes that kind of money and then thinks know I will go destroy potentially the biggest club in the country. Ashley knows he is sitting on a gold mine with Newcastle and I bet he's as pissed off as we are.

 

This is rubbish. He lied and lied and lied and lied.

[Big Onion 0]

Can agree with SBR 100%, when the facts are put in place regarding club personnel he's bang right and has been in this game way too long to talk "a load of shite".

 

A successful businessman made educated judgements on his recruitment and he was let down, unfortunately he chose the most unforgiving club in the world. Nobody makes that kind of money and then thinks know I will go destroy potentially the biggest club in the country. Ashley knows he is sitting on a gold mine with Newcastle and I bet he's as pissed off as we are.

 

As you've picked that out from my post I'll respond. Since when did longevity preclude the ability to be wrong like? (Johnny's Pele analogy is spot on )

 

I've got massive respect for Robson but he is certainly capable of talking shite man. It's not that long ago he was calling Jenas 'the complete footballer' and regarding him as one of the best prospects he'd ever had. I'd always listen to what SBR has to say and it's often spot on, but I disagree with him entirely here. Whether Ashley's pissed off is neither here nor there: the issue is who is primarily responsible for getting us in the shit. And as for 'educated judgements' that's the opposite of what he did. He gave key roles to his mates rather than people qualified to do the job. That's his own fault. I'd like to believe he's capable of learning from his fuck-ups but there's nothing really that suggests he will.

 

I think Robson has been buoyed by the appointment of Shearer and is therefore disposed to chuck a few kind words in Ashley's direction.

[Fop 1]

Robson likes an owner like Ashley in fairness (hands off), although in reality Robson wouldn't have liked working under the conditions Ashley has imposed on the club any more than he liked the excesses of FFS or Feckless Hall's meddling.

[Man U Hater 0]

Your the best set of suppoters in the premier league but as for keeping the blinkers on

 

Ashley isn't a fool or a villain and neither were his employees, they were mistakes which everyone makes. Denis Wise is a cunt but he did an amazing job at Leeds he's come to Newcastle signed what he thought were potentially good players and failed. All I'm trying to say is these people aren't or weren't here to ruin the football club or put it in the current mess.

 

I'm not implying that Wise, Ashley, Jiminez e.t.c are good at what they do but they were all employed on good grounds by Ashley in order to progress this football club from the just about dire state Freddie Sheperd had left it in. Sometimes it don't work and yeah it hasn't but neither has Shearer and he is still regarded as a hero because he loves the club and he's a local lad.

[Happy Face 29]

I don't think the players brought in have been particularly worse than you'd expect.

 

It's Ashley's fault because the money hasn't been made available by him to bring good enough quality in.

 

It's Ashley's fault because he's forced the sale of our best players to cover what crap we have brought in and to cream some off the top.

 

It's Ashley's fault because he bought the club as a play thing with no forethought whatsoever.

 

It's Ashley's fault because he thinks not being a football man is an excuse rather than a stick to beat him with. If he doesn't know the sport, why did he stick his nose in?

 

It's Ashley's fault because he listens to his mates rather than people who know the club.

 

It's Ashley's fault because he's where the buck stops.

 

 

Robson's talking shite here.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Happy Face

[Happy Face 29]

Can agree with SBR 100%, when the facts are put in place regarding club personnel he's bang right and has been in this game way too long to talk "a load of shite".

 

A successful businessman made educated judgements on his recruitment and he was let down, unfortunately he chose the most unforgiving club in the world. Nobody makes that kind of money and then thinks know I will go destroy potentially the biggest club in the country. Ashley knows he is sitting on a gold mine with Newcastle and I bet he's as pissed off as we are.

 

Ashley isn't a Trojan Horse sent by Spurs to ruin us. Of course he wants us to succeed, like his other businesses.

 

But this is nothing like any of his other businesses and he's invested heavily in a field in which he's incapable and recruited other people who are incapable on the cheap.

 

The argument that his success in one field precludes him from criticism in another is ridiculous. Robbie Williams deserves kudos for his pop career, but that rap album ruined him.

[tinofbeans 86]

Most posters on here said bringing Keegan back was a bad thing.

 

He's a very very capable manager and he was proved that not just here but at every club he has been at, Keegan was fucked over by Ashley's system, in this league Keegan could have taken this squad and we would have finished 6th or there abouts.

bit late i know, but that is a ridiculous statement tom.

 

going forwards if we have a zero spend policy what happens when the parachute payments run out at the end of next season (obviously IF we are relegated).

 

I think the bloke that picks the managers and infrastructure should be held fully accountable.

[Happy Face 29]

Most posters on here said bringing Keegan back was a bad thing.

 

He's a very very capable manager and he was proved that not just here but at every club he has been at, Keegan was fucked over by Ashley's system, in this league Keegan could have taken this squad and we would have finished 6th or there abouts.

bit late i know, but that is a ridiculous statement tom.

 

going forwards if we have a zero spend policy what happens when the parachute payments run out at the end of next season (obviously IF we are relegated).

 

I think the bloke that picks the managers and infrastructure should be held fully accountable.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong in Tom's post. I don't see how your response contradicts it either.

[Fop 1]

Your the best set of suppoters in the premier league but as for keeping the blinkers on

 

Ashley isn't a fool or a villain and neither were his employees, they were mistakes which everyone makes. Denis Wise is a cunt but he did an amazing job at Leeds he's come to Newcastle signed what he thought were potentially good players and failed. All I'm trying to say is these people aren't or weren't here to ruin the football club or put it in the current mess.

 

I'm not implying that Wise, Ashley, Jiminez e.t.c are good at what they do but they were all employed on good grounds by Ashley in order to progress this football club from the just about dire state Freddie Sheperd had left it in. Sometimes it don't work and yeah it hasn't but neither has Shearer and he is still regarded as a hero because he loves the club and he's a local lad.

 

Yet they have. They've taken a club with nothing really wrong with it, other than a slightly OTT wage bill and debt issues that were somewhat worrying (but not going to get the club relegated within 2 seasons or anything like that), that could happily hold its own in the Premiership (if not at the top without some serious investment and stability) and got it relegated.

 

They couldn't have done a much worse job.

[Man U Hater 0]

I hate to keep referring to Leeds United but the similarities are unreal. We were in the same postion after the CL semi final and made ridiculous investments to take us to the very top. That failed and from there on in we were no more.

 

If Freddie Sheperd ahd continued to run the club in a Peter Risdale textbook fashion you would have been the same. Relegation yes a major possibility but Newcastle are financially sound thanks to Mike Ashley. Unfortunately the transitional phase to taking the club to the next level failed and you are where you are but even if you do go down there aint gonna be a freefall into the midst of the championship and possibly league 1.

[Tom 13840]

Happy Face - what's the position of our finances at the moment regarding debt?

[Asprilla 96]

I hate to keep referring to Leeds United but the similarities are unreal. We were in the same postion after the CL semi final and made ridiculous investments to take us to the very top. That failed and from there on in we were no more.

 

If Freddie Sheperd ahd continued to run the club in a Peter Risdale textbook fashion you would have been the same. Relegation yes a major possibility but Newcastle are financially sound thanks to Mike Ashley. Unfortunately the transitional phase to taking the club to the next level failed and you are where you are but even if you do go down there aint gonna be a freefall into the midst of the championship and possibly league 1.

We're not though...we just owe Mike Ashley hundreds of millions of pounds instead of some banks.

[Happy Face 29]

Happy Face - what's the position of our finances at the moment regarding debt?

 

On top of the £100M debt that was in place when Ashley bought the club, he's definitely loaned the club a further £10M and claims another £10M on top of that., so we're £20M worse off.

 

At the last official report, the wage bill had also increased from £65m to £70m, with Llambias more recently stating it was up to £76m. The staff has increased from 97 people to 118.

 

The positive effect Ashley has had on the money side is that he doesn't receive any dividends and we pay no interest on our loans anymore.

 

Who'd have thought the Shepherds and Halls really WERE earning those extortionate bonuses?

[Tom 13840]

But is it really that bad if we owe money to ourselves?

 

Or technically ourselves anyway.

[Happy Face 29]

But is it really that bad if we owe money to ourselves?

 

Or technically ourselves anyway.

 

We don't though, like Asprilla says. Newcastle United still have all that debt and more....until Mike Ashley says he'll forfeit it all.

 

The debt is growing at a slower rate than it was though. But then our Premier league status and full houses every week meant we could sustain the debt we had. Without either of those, it's less likely.

[Fop 1]

I hate to keep referring to Leeds United but the similarities are unreal. We were in the same postion after the CL semi final and made ridiculous investments to take us to the very top. That failed and from there on in we were no more.

 

If Freddie Sheperd ahd continued to run the club in a Peter Risdale textbook fashion you would have been the same. Relegation yes a major possibility but Newcastle are financially sound thanks to Mike Ashley. Unfortunately the transitional phase to taking the club to the next level failed and you are where you are but even if you do go down there aint gonna be a freefall into the midst of the championship and possibly league 1.

 

 

We weren't in a Leeds position, we had financial issues that may have caused serious problems if left to spiral, but it didn't necessarily need someone to come in an wipe them out (not that he has he bunged them on the club price) for that to be sorted (any more than Man U or Liverpool are about to "do a Leeds"). Leeds spent massively beyond their means, and it went really bad when things didn't go as well as hoped, Newcastle were just getting nastily overdrawn (not so very long ago we matched Man U financially) and had options to rectify that.

 

 

It was nice that Ashley did it, without a doubt, but what he's done since then has been worse than anyone imagined could happen.

 

 

Fact is currently we'd be in an infinitely better position with FFS as Chairman and him and the Hall's are major shareholders, even without some sensible financial measures.

[Man U Hater 0]

I think many businessmen would tell you otherwise.

 

I will for starters

[The Fish 8989]

You're a business man?

 

what's your business?

[ChezGiven 0]

But is it really that bad if we owe money to ourselves?

 

Or technically ourselves anyway.

 

We don't though, like Asprilla says. Newcastle United still have all that debt and more....until Mike Ashley says he'll forfeit it all.

 

The debt is growing at a slower rate than it was though. But then our Premier league status and full houses every week meant we could sustain the debt we had. Without either of those, it's less likely.

 

He 'internalised' the debt as far as i am aware. Therefore defaulting on any credit we have isnt subject to the `leeds' model of disintegration.

[Guest alex]

You're a business man?

 

what's your business?

GCSE Business Studies.

[snakehips 0]

You're a business man?

 

what's your business?

 

Has a pet shop in Cheadle. Specialises in flys in the window.

[Tom 13840]

But is it really that bad if we owe money to ourselves?

 

Or technically ourselves anyway.

 

We don't though, like Asprilla says. Newcastle United still have all that debt and more....until Mike Ashley says he'll forfeit it all.

 

The debt is growing at a slower rate than it was though. But then our Premier league status and full houses every week meant we could sustain the debt we had. Without either of those, it's less likely.

 

He 'internalised' the debt as far as i am aware. Therefore defaulting on any credit we have isnt subject to the `leeds' model of disintegration.

 

So really his the person that would call up the debt anyway?

[Park Life 70]

I hate to keep referring to Leeds United but the similarities are unreal. We were in the same postion after the CL semi final and made ridiculous investments to take us to the very top. That failed and from there on in we were no more.

 

If Freddie Sheperd ahd continued to run the club in a Peter Risdale textbook fashion you would have been the same. Relegation yes a major possibility but Newcastle are financially sound thanks to Mike Ashley. Unfortunately the transitional phase to taking the club to the next level failed and you are where you are but even if you do go down there aint gonna be a freefall into the midst of the championship and possibly league 1.

 

What are the similarities?