Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Fop

Ministers to trim DNA databas

Recommended Posts

Ministers to trim DNA database

 

 

Comedian Mark Thomas was angry when he found his DNA samples were on the national database

 

Ministers are to trim up to 850,000 DNA profiles from the current total of 4.5m on a national database after a court ruled innocent people must be removed.

 

Those arrested, but later released or acquitted, will have their profiles wiped after between six and 12 years.

 

Officials warned the changes could reduce the number of crimes solved.

 

But opposition parties accused the government of "giving as little as possible" in response to the European Court of Human Rights judgement.

 

Last year the court ruled that the database in England and Wales' was illegal - unlike Scotland's which was deemed "fair and proportionate".

 

 

Why does [the DNA profile] need to be held on file? That shouldn't be the case unless you've been convicted

Dr Helen Wallace, Genewatch

 

The court said rules allowing police to keep everyone's profile on store were blanket and indiscriminate because they did not differentiate between criminals, the severity of their crimes and innocent people who had never been convicted of an offence.

 

Current practices in England, Wales and Northern Ireland allow police to retain a numeric genetic profile of everyone arrested for a recordable offence - regardless of whether they are charged or convicted.

 

The policy has led to protests from individuals, civil liberty groups and opposition parties that the distinction between the guilty and innocent is being "blurred".

 

In contrast, the rules relating to DNA profile retention in Scotland are much narrower.

 

SCOTTISH SITUATION

DNA sample on arrest

If cleared, profile deleted

If cleared of serious sexual or violent offence, profile kept for maximum of five years

System praised by European Court on Human Rights

 

The current database for the rest of the UK has provided 400,000 crime scene matches over a decade.

 

Supporters say it has played a key role in some "cold case" crimes where serious offenders have been caught - or innocent people cleared - many years after the original investigation.

 

Launching its consultation on how to comply with the courts judgement, the Home Office said its proposals include:

 

• Destroying all original DNA samples, like mouth swabs, as soon as they are converted into a digital database profile

 

• Automatically deleting after 12 years the profiles of those arrested but not convicted of a serious violent or sexual crime

 

• Automatically deleting after six years the profiles of anyone arrested but not convicted of other offences.

 

• Retain indefinitely the DNA profiles and fingerprints of anyone convicted of a recordable offence.

 

• Remove the profiles of young people arrested but not convicted, or convicted of less serious offences, when they turn 18

 

While the DNA profiles of all children under 10-years-old have already been deleted, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said the database would be expanded to include 30,000 serious offenders convicted before the database was established.

 

Fewer detections

 

Officials estimate that up to 850,000 of the 4.5m profiles on the database could be affected by the changes and it will take two years to sort through the cases.

 

In practice many of these profiles may be retained under the 12 and six year rules.

 

Under Scottish law, DNA profiles may only be kept for longer than three years if a chief constable obtains the permission of a court.

 

Prof Jim Fraser, of Strathclyde University, wrote a report addressing the issue and he said UK ministers ought to justify their time limits.

 

"The central question is: 'Is 12 years proportionate' and it's quite a difficult question to answer," he said.

 

"Most offences are committed by a relatively small number of people and they tend to reoffend and reoffend quite soon," he said, adding that he had concluded that most would do this within three years.

 

In its consultation, the Home Office says that removing profiles is "likely to reduce the number of detections that DNA delivers".

 

'Undignified action'

 

One official estimate suggests there will be 4,500 fewer crimes detected a year - rising to 26,000 if the proposals are extended to the policies on retaining fingerprints.

 

Jacqui Smith said: "It is crucial that we do everything we can to protect the public by preventing crime and bringing offenders to justice.

 

"These new proposals will ensure that the right people are on it, as well as considering where people should come off.

 

"We will ensure that the most serious offenders are added to the database no matter when or where they were convicted.

 

But Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said: "The government just doesn't get this.

 

"People in Britain should be innocent until proven guilty.

 

"Ministers are just trying to get away with as little as they possibly can instead of taking real action to remove innocent people from the DNA database. It's just not good enough."

 

And Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne said: "Once again, the Home Office is fighting an undignified rearguard action designed to give as little as possible in response to the ruling of the European Court of Human Rights."

 

Dr Helen Wallace from the charity Genewatch, told the BBC samples taken from people who turn out to be innocent should not be kept at all:

 

She said: "If you are a suspect for a crime you should be able to have your DNA taken during that investigation.

 

"But why does it need to be held on file - that shouldn't be the case unless you've been convicted."

 

 

It's very true that Labour have basically created a new legal category: Innocent, Innocent-ish and Guilty*.

 

Even now after an EU mauling they are still trying to do a little as possible to get away with as much as possible. :lol:

 

 

 

 

*yes, yes Sammy man man

Edited by Fop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DNA bungle solves 'Phantom' mystery

 

THE PHANTOM KILLER!!!!!! :lol:

 

A mystery woman linked to six murders in Germany by traces of DNA, and known in the media as "The Phantom" never in fact existed, police have admitted.

 

Police suspicions were based on traces of identical female DNA they found at 40 crime scenes but swabs used to collect DNA samples were contaminated by an innocent woman working in a factory in Bavaria.

 

 

:o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's very true that Labour have basically created a new legal category: Innocent, Innocent-ish and Guilty*.

 

Even now after an EU mauling they are still trying to do a little as possible to get away with as much as possible. :lol:

 

 

 

 

*yes, yes Sammy man man

 

What the fuck have I got to do with this?

Or are you talking to your mini me, fop-lite?

Take your pill Fop, for god's sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You posted those copy/paste stories a mere 2 minutes apart. If you've got them all 'ready to go' at the start of a thread, why don't you just pop them in the same OP? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's very true that Labour have basically created a new legal category: Innocent, Innocent-ish and Guilty*.

 

Even now after an EU mauling they are still trying to do a little as possible to get away with as much as possible. :D

 

 

 

 

*yes, yes Sammy man man

 

What the fuck have I got to do with this?

Or are you talking to your mini me, fop-lite?

Take your pill Fop, for god's sake.

 

:o:lol: (he is a mini-me though isn't he :icon_lol::rolleyes:)

Edited by Fop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You posted those copy/paste stories a mere 2 minutes apart. If you've got them all 'ready to go' at the start of a thread, why don't you just pop them in the same OP? :o

 

Sammy man man, there's desperate for something/anything to argue about........ and then there's you. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You posted those copy/paste stories a mere 2 minutes apart. If you've got them all 'ready to go' at the start of a thread, why don't you just pop them in the same OP? :o

 

Sammy man man, there's desperate for something/anything to argue about........ and then there's you. :lol:

 

Thanks for making the distinction, at least it was clear to you I wasn't arguing. It was just a time saving tip for the busy lunatic, fwiw.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You posted those copy/paste stories a mere 2 minutes apart. If you've got them all 'ready to go' at the start of a thread, why don't you just pop them in the same OP? :D

 

Sammy man man, there's desperate for something/anything to argue about........ and then there's you. :o

 

Thanks for making the distinction, at least it was clear to you I wasn't arguing. It was just a time saving tip for the busy lunatic, fwiw.

 

See? :lol::rolleyes:

 

390~Mini-Me-Goldmember-Posters.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now Sammy man man has got that off his chest....

 

 

 

 

Anyone wonder at how being completely innocent of one sort of crime means they can hold your DNA for 12 year rather than 6 for another?

 

• Automatically deleting after 12 years the profiles of those arrested but not convicted of a serious violent or sexual crime

 

• Automatically deleting after six years the profiles of anyone arrested but not convicted of other offences.

 

 

Never mind that being completely innocent of said crime why should your DNA be held at all never mind for 6 years?

 

 

 

 

 

 

"But he was completely innocent of murder your honour, it's a serious offence to be innocent of!"* :lol:

 

 

 

*yes, yes Sammy man man, we know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest alex

I know this is a favourite discussion of yours but it might just be getting a bit tired mate. I think it's been done to death, don't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sorry if you were looking for an argument tbh. :lol:

Fop's happy either way. :o

I know this is a favourite discussion of yours but it might just be getting a bit tired mate. I think it's been done to death, don't you?

This is new stuff. :D (you could of course just ignore it if you're not interested)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tory MP claims DNA record victory

_45248154_green226b.jpg

Mr Green says he does not want "special treatment"

 

A Tory MP has claimed a "small but significant victory for freedom" after police agreed to delete his DNA record.

 

But Damian Green says he wants the same right extended to all innocent people on the police database - rather than "special treatment" for public figures.

 

The shadow immigration minister was arrested last year as part of a Home Office leak inquiry but never charged.

 

The Home Office said it was consulting on proposals that "will ensure that the right people are on the database".

 

The government has yet to respond to a European Court ruling banning the retention of innocent people's DNA.

 

Mr Green, whose arrest in November last year sparked a political storm, told BBC News: "The police have now agreed that they will delete my DNA fingerprint and my police national computer record as I have been requesting ever since I was cleared."

 

He described the decision as a "small but significant victory for freedom and privacy in this country - but what is really important now is that I don't get special treatment just because I am a public figure".

 

In a letter to the MP, the Metropolitan Police said his case could be treated as "exceptional".

 

'Disgraceful behaviour'

 

But Mr Green said: "There are hundreds of thousands of other people who were in the same position as me... where they are completely innocent and yet the police are going to hang on forever to all their details.

 

"I just think that's intolerable in a democratic society. People have a democratic right to privacy and the law needs to be changed."

 

Police claim the DNA database is a vital tool in the detection of violent crime - but campaigners say it is an infringement of civil liberties.

 

Last year, the European Court said rules allowing police in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to retain indefinitely the genetic profiles of everyone arrested for a recordable offence were indiscriminate and must be scrapped. There are different rules in Scotland.

 

 

Our proposals will ensure that the right people are on the database, as well as considering when people should come off

Home Office

 

The Home Office has just completed a three-month consultation on the European ruling but has yet to issue definitive guidance to police forces.

 

It could order 850,000 of the 4.5 million DNA profiles held on the police database to be deleted - but details of those cleared of crimes - or never even charged - will still be held for six years, or 12 in cases of serious violent or sexual offences.

 

A Home Office spokesman told the BBC: "We are clear that the DNA database plays a vital role in helping us protect the public by preventing crime and bringing offenders to justice.

 

"We are currently consulting on proposals that will comply with the court's judgment while maintaining public protection.

 

"Our proposals will ensure that the right people are on the database, as well as considering when people should come off.

 

"We are committed to putting in place an evidence-based retention regime, which has public support and enhances public protection."

 

'More transparency'

 

The spokesman said to this end the Home Office intend to "make the existing exceptional case procedure more open and transparent" by putting the criteria for early deletion in legislation and by placing reporting requirements on the process.

 

Mr Green said: "I think the government is behaving pretty disgracefully, they've been told by the European Court that the current policy is illegal and they are dragging their feet as slowly as possible, supported, I am afraid to say, by senior police."

And he hit back at claims by supporters of the current rules that DNA has been invaluable in solving thousands of "cold cases", saying that although it had a role to play retaining the DNA of innocent people risked "alienating the vast majority of respectable people from the police".

 

He said the Conservatives wanted to adopt the system used in Scotland where "if you are innocent your details are not kept on the database unless there is a sex crime accusation involved or a particularly violent crime" when it is kept for a maximum of three or five years.

 

In July, the Association of Chief Police Officers advised forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland not to remove records from the DNA database until the Home Office has finalised its response.

 

In a letter to chief constables, seen by the BBC, ACPO says it strongly advises "that decisions to remove records should not be based on proposed changes".

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8210399.stm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

Recent tweets

Toontastic Facebook

Donate to Toontastic

Keeping the lights on since... well ages ago
TT-Staff


×