Allardyce hopes to capture £2.5m Smith as Newcastle look to slash wages

[ewerk 26168]

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

Are you going to ignore my point about 9 point from 12 games? That's relegation form.

[Park Life 70]

If you can't see how shit we were under Allardyce it shows how little information you have to go on.

 

Allardyce is not a great manager, at best he'll keep a club in the Premier League. Now, that might be all the ambition you can muster, but we like to aim high. It's not a delusion, it's not arrogance, it's ambition. We ache to be back up there scrapping with Man U for the title, playing good football and winning in style. However, we're not so insane to think that it's anything less than a Herculean task. We're so far away from the side that twatted Man U 5-0 it's not even funny. The whole nature of the game has changed, so to return to the spotlight will take innovation, guts and heavy investment.

 

Thing with Geordies (despite what the media paint, we're a savvy bunch. We know the failings of our club, we know what needs to be done and we're willing to crawl over broken glass to push the club in the right direction.

 

Do you truly TRULY believe in your heart of hearts Newcastle fans would have agreed to employ Roeder, Souness, fucking KINNEAR?! yet those are three of the fellas who've got us in the trouble we're in now. I ommit Allardyce because at the time, we were willing to see what he could do, we respected his results at Bolton and were eager to see his much vaunted scientific modern approach and how it would work at St James. What we got was a return to Long ball, mind numbingly narrow minded football, bizarre team selection and god awful signings.

 

If we'd had our way, Robson wouldn't have gone when he did, Keegan certainly wouldn't have gone in the first instance, we'd never have employed the three I mention above and I doubt we'd have gone for Allardyce. If the fans had their way there is no FUCKING way we'd be in the position we find ourselves.

 

We don't say "Roder out" because w're capricious, we say Roeder out because EVEN laymen such as ourselves can see he hasn't the tactical nous or inspirational qualities you need in a gaffer.

 

Anyway I've rambled on long enough. Suffice to say, when Allrdyce has you for a season or so... come back, take up a megaphone and tell us at great volume how great he is. Bet you all the money in my pocket against all the money in yours it'll be a quiet day for you and I.

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

 

Is Blackburn near Leeds?

[Howay 12447]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

Utter shite, we as fans had nowt to do with Allardyce going from what I remember at the time we tried but nothing happened Ashley kept him so people begun to just accept he was staying then out of nowhere he was sacked.

See Kitmans post as to what Allardyce was like for us. You keep bringing up this 8pts clear crap aye after we'd played hardly any of the decent teams in the league, like ewerk pointed out we started taking a nose dive losing to Derby, drawing via last minute penalty with Fulham I can definitely see Fish's point that relegation could have been a possibility for us that season.

"shore up your backline which has always been poor" Wahey! another myth iirc we had the 2nd best defense in the league under Keegan when we finished 2nd. You really do just recite the media perception of us.

We want stability but we can't get it with Ashley nothing us as fans can do about that.

[Tom 13806]

Blackburn also conceded one more than us this season and we scored the same.

[bigchrissamba 0]

This is one of the reasons other fans call you deluded, you think you have some god given right to watch champagne football.

 

Mate, you won't get much patience on here if you start repeating stereotypes put about by the press.

 

If you speak to grass root fans, not the mongs on Sky Sports, you'll find that most people don't want champagne football or anything approaching it and there's no expectation of winning things. We want stability, an owner who invests and a team that shows progress year on year.

 

Sam's football was quite simply appalling to watch. The team showed none of his supposed virtues and was clearly going backwards. His Bolton teams could mix it up between long and short football, were agggressive and well organised. Our team played hoof ball, was badly organised, the set pieces were a joke, couldn't score, couldn't keep the ball, leaked goals for fun, was dispirited and went to places like Derby aiming not to lose and failing.

 

Sam was totally out of his depth and responded by bullshitting and making excuses. He had clearly lost the dressing room, training was acknowledged by the players to be a shambles and there were complaints of lack of fitness. We still had injury problems depsite his legion of assistants.

 

He had a terrible record against the weaker teams in the league, the majority of which we'd played by the time he was sacked with the difficult games to go. It's not fanciful at all to say we would have been relegated under his watch and he would have been sacked imo by most clubs.

 

I understand how things look to the outsider but you honestly don't understand just how bad things were under his leadership. I'd bet you didn't watch most of the matches at the time. Giving him more time wouldn't have solved a thing. He was hopelessy out of his depth and had given up by the time he got the bullet.

You weren't far from relegation the season previous to that.

 

If he had a terrible record against the weaker teams in the league, did he have a decent record against the stronger teams in the league? Only he left you in 11th place. He must have done decent against one set of teams.

 

After Sam left you had 19 games left. These included games against Bolton, Boro, Rovers, Birmingham, Fulham, Spurs (who were in massive decline), Reading, Portsmouth, Sunderland and West Ham. Under Sam you would have picked up 11 points from those 10 games alone to get the 37 needed for safety that year, let alone the matches against the top 6 teams where you mightve scraped a point or two. You would not have got relegated that season under Sam, and yet you sacked him when you desperately needed stability.

[Park Life 70]

In hindsight sacking SA was a tactical error this is clear, notwithstanding the shit footie we would have still been in the PL IMO.

[bigchrissamba 0]

Try 271,600.

Name me another League club in the area that's Tyneside. If anyone in that 880,000 area wants to support their local club, it's Newcastle. Therefore your catchment area (note I didn't say the size of the actual city where your club is located) is 880,000 people. Boasting about the size of your crowds therefore is a little foolish, as one would expect crowds that big.

[bigchrissamba 0]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

Utter shite, we as fans had nowt to do with Allardyce going from what I remember at the time we tried but nothing happened Ashley kept him so people begun to just accept he was staying then out of nowhere he was sacked.

See Kitmans post as to what Allardyce was like for us. You keep bringing up this 8pts clear crap aye after we'd played hardly any of the decent teams in the league, like ewerk pointed out we started taking a nose dive losing to Derby, drawing via last minute penalty with Fulham I can definitely see Fish's point that relegation could have been a possibility for us that season.

"shore up your backline which has always been poor" Wahey! another myth iirc we had the 2nd best defense in the league under Keegan when we finished 2nd. You really do just recite the media perception of us.

We want stability but we can't get it with Ashley nothing us as fans can do about that.

Congratulations, you've disproved my point about you having a poor defence with a stat from 96-97.

[Howay 12447]

Try 271,600.

Name me another League club in the area that's Tyneside. If anyone in that 880,000 area wants to support their local club, it's Newcastle. Therefore your catchment area (note I didn't say the size of the actual city where your club is located) is 880,000 people. Boasting about the size of your crowds therefore is a little foolish, as one would expect crowds that big.

There are Sunderland fans that live in the Tyneside area you know.

[Tom 13806]

Try 271,600.

Name me another League club in the area that's Tyneside. If anyone in that 880,000 area wants to support their local club, it's Newcastle. Therefore your catchment area (note I didn't say the size of the actual city where your club is located) is 880,000 people. Boasting about the size of your crowds therefore is a little foolish, as one would expect crowds that big.

 

It's like saying your catchment area is Lancashire...

[ewerk 26168]

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

Are you going to ignore my point about 9 point from 12 games? That's relegation form.

 

I'll take your silence as a yes.

 

Allardyce - 9 points from last 12 games = 0.75 points average per game

 

Ince - 12 points from last 15 games = 0.8 points average per game

 

 

But we're the deluded ones?

[Howay 12447]

Congratulations, you've disproved my point about you having a poor defence with a stat from 96-97.

Our defence isn't anywhere near as bad as you think it is, our problem is in midfield when our defence clear our lines the ball come straight back not giving them a chance to re organise the midfield don't stop the attack, can't retain possession. Beye, Taylor, Bassong and Enrique is imho a better defence man for man than yours.

[Kitman 2188]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

You're just talking bollocks now. Did you read any of my post? Big Sam wasn't offering any sort of stability, we were going down the plug hole fast and he'd obviously thrown the towel in. There was no 'Big Sam Out' campaign by the way, he was sacked by the new owner.

[Guest Stevie]

Try 271,600.

Name me another League club in the area that's Tyneside. If anyone in that 880,000 area wants to support their local club, it's Newcastle. Therefore your catchment area (note I didn't say the size of the actual city where your club is located) is 880,000 people. Boasting about the size of your crowds therefore is a little foolish, as one would expect crowds that big.

We share a good half of that catchment area with Sunderland you idiot. Tyne and Wear 1.1m people. Merseyside 1.5m people. Sunderland much bigger gates than Everton, Newcastle much bigger gates than Liverpool = pipe down.

 

ps why do you inbreds pronounce Rovers with a shhh at the end? Blackburrrrrrrrn Rovershhh? Why?

[The Fish 8947]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

No one said that one manager was going to do, as someone else has said in this thread we wanted progression, even if it was from 13th to 12th. Under Allardyce we were going backwards at an alarming rate. By the by, WE realised football had changed, WE realised we needed a change from top to tail, followed by a periood of stability, investment in youth and a scouting system of note, we knew we needed to stop buying players just for their name, we knew all of this, unfortunately WE don't get to make the decisons, that falls to the mororns at the top.

 

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

A back line hasn't always been poor and he did more to make it pourous than many others. Robson and Keegans (neither defensively minded) had better defence than your Fat Sam, we didn't have steel we had thugs, whats the point in a steely midfielder when he can't pass the ball once he's got it? Just as you're saying it's harsh of us to judge him after so few games,it's madness for you to think he'd have done any better if he'd stayed. 9 points from a possible 36. That's relegation form.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

So Newcastle United or Blackburn will never again challenge for the title? Fuck off. If it takes a decade or it take four I'll still be cheering us on. I'm quite happy to take the long view mate, but it seems you aren't You might be content with a top ten place, but that's not enough I want more. I want glory. If that means waiting until I'm 65, then so-fucking-be it.

 

I wonder, do you have an opinion of your own, or do you just use Sky Sports?

[bigchrissamba 0]

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

Are you going to ignore my point about 9 point from 12 games? That's relegation form.

 

I'll take your silence as a yes.

 

Allardyce - 9 points from last 12 games = 0.75 points average per game

 

Ince - 12 points from last 15 games = 0.8 points average per game

 

 

But we're the deluded ones?

 

Yeah the difference being that Allardyce had produced good enough form for you before - 15 from 9 games (1.5 points per game) and at the highest level with Bolton to suggest that this was just poor form.

 

Ince had never managed in the Premier League and in his final 8 games achieved a grand total of 0 points. Thats 0 points per game.

 

Some difference.

 

Still, while we're playing this game..

 

Shearer: 5 points from 8 games - 0.63 points per game.

 

Kinnear: 20 points from 18 games - 1.11 points per game.

[Tom 13806]

Nothing to do with Shearer having Villa,Stoke,Liverpool and Tottenham away and Chelsea & Fulham at home as part of his 8 games then

[Guest Stevie]

This cunts not even English. How can people who go to games live in home cities have a debate with someone from Australia who probably couldn't even tell you where Blackburn is on a map let alone what colour Blackburn Central Mosque is. Debate over as far as I'm concerned.

[Kitman 2188]

This is one of the reasons other fans call you deluded, you think you have some god given right to watch champagne football.

 

Mate, you won't get much patience on here if you start repeating stereotypes put about by the press.

 

If you speak to grass root fans, not the mongs on Sky Sports, you'll find that most people don't want champagne football or anything approaching it and there's no expectation of winning things. We want stability, an owner who invests and a team that shows progress year on year.

 

Sam's football was quite simply appalling to watch. The team showed none of his supposed virtues and was clearly going backwards. His Bolton teams could mix it up between long and short football, were agggressive and well organised. Our team played hoof ball, was badly organised, the set pieces were a joke, couldn't score, couldn't keep the ball, leaked goals for fun, was dispirited and went to places like Derby aiming not to lose and failing.

 

Sam was totally out of his depth and responded by bullshitting and making excuses. He had clearly lost the dressing room, training was acknowledged by the players to be a shambles and there were complaints of lack of fitness. We still had injury problems depsite his legion of assistants.

 

He had a terrible record against the weaker teams in the league, the majority of which we'd played by the time he was sacked with the difficult games to go. It's not fanciful at all to say we would have been relegated under his watch and he would have been sacked imo by most clubs.

 

I understand how things look to the outsider but you honestly don't understand just how bad things were under his leadership. I'd bet you didn't watch most of the matches at the time. Giving him more time wouldn't have solved a thing. He was hopelessy out of his depth and had given up by the time he got the bullet.

You weren't far from relegation the season previous to that.

 

If he had a terrible record against the weaker teams in the league, did he have a decent record against the stronger teams in the league? Only he left you in 11th place. He must have done decent against one set of teams.

 

After Sam left you had 19 games left. These included games against Bolton, Boro, Rovers, Birmingham, Fulham, Spurs (who were in massive decline), Reading, Portsmouth, Sunderland and West Ham. Under Sam you would have picked up 11 points from those 10 games alone to get the 37 needed for safety that year, let alone the matches against the top 6 teams where you mightve scraped a point or two. You would not have got relegated that season under Sam, and yet you sacked him when you desperately needed stability.

 

No, we started the season well against the weaker teams and then went on a terrible run which culminated in his sacking. I can't be arsed to look up the exact stats but I assume it's the 9 points from 12 games one mentioned. The point is we were in a tailspin which he couldn't climb out of. We had the momentum of a relegation side, which we know all about from this season - your comment about getting 11 points from 10 games is the sort of guff people have come out with this season.

 

To be frank he never showed any signs of hacking it at NUFC. Maybe he will at Rovers I don't know. But he offered us no stability at all, the football was terrible, his signings were shit, he'd lost the dressing room. I hope for your sake he does better for you but I was glad to see the back of him at the time.

 

As it turns out you're quite correct to say we could have done much worse because we did. That 's not to say he was going to be any good for us, we've seen the evidence. Bolton and Newcastle are different clubs, however you try to paint it and it's not because of deluded fans.

[ewerk 26168]

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

Are you going to ignore my point about 9 point from 12 games? That's relegation form.

 

I'll take your silence as a yes.

 

Allardyce - 9 points from last 12 games = 0.75 points average per game

 

Ince - 12 points from last 15 games = 0.8 points average per game

 

 

But we're the deluded ones?

 

Yeah the difference being that Allardyce had produced good enough form for you before - 15 from 9 games (1.5 points per game) and at the highest level with Bolton to suggest that this was just poor form.

 

Ince had never managed in the Premier League and in his final 8 games achieved a grand total of 0 points. Thats 0 points per game.

 

Some difference.

 

 

Either way they're both relegation form and both had to go.

[bigchrissamba 0]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

No one said that one manager was going to do, as someone else has said in this thread we wanted progression, even if it was from 13th to 12th. Under Allardyce we were going backwards at an alarming rate. By the by, WE realised football had changed, WE realised we needed a change from top to tail, followed by a periood of stability, investment in youth and a scouting system of note, we knew we needed to stop buying players just for their name, we knew all of this, unfortunately WE don't get to make the decisons, that falls to the mororns at the top.

 

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

A back line hasn't always been poor and he did more to make it pourous than many others. Robson and Keegans (neither defensively minded) had better defence than your Fat Sam, we didn't have steel we had thugs, whats the point in a steely midfielder when he can't pass the ball once he's got it? Just as you're saying it's harsh of us to judge him after so few games,it's madness for you to think he'd have done any better if he'd stayed. 9 points from a possible 36. That's relegation form.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

So Newcastle United or Blackburn will never again challenge for the title? Fuck off. If it takes a decade or it take four I'll still be cheering us on. I'm quite happy to take the long view mate, but it seems you aren't You might be content with a top ten place, but that's not enough I want more. I want glory. If that means waiting until I'm 65, then so-fucking-be it.

 

I wonder, do you have an opinion of your own, or do you just use Sky Sports?

 

Barely watch Sky Sports except for the actual matches, and even then you can never take a panel with Jamie Redknapp on it very seriously.

 

9 points from a possible 36 - I guarantee you I can pick out a good third of the league who will have similar runs next season. It's a very poor run of form but you can't sack a manager for a poor run of form, especially when you weren't in any imminent danger of relegation. He'd picked up 15 points from his first 9 for a team that had finished 5 points from relegation the season before, or do those games not count in your overall assessment? You weren't going backwards under Sam, if you went backwards from 5 points from the drop you wouldve been around the drop zone at that point. It's complete madness to think he wouldve been relegated that season, whereas to think a manager who has got good results at his other two clubs (and who had started the season well with Newcastle) mightve made things better is perfectly reasonable thinking.

[Howay 12447]

This cunts not even English. How can people who go to games live in home cities have a debate with someone from Australia who probably couldn't even tell you where Blackburn is on a map let alone what colour Blackburn Central Mosque is. Debate over as far as I'm concerned.

Didn't know this, he also has a tendency to make points and then ignore peoples counter points when they show his sky sports facts to be bollocks then pick out the ones he thinks he can argue with.

[bigchrissamba 0]

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

Are you going to ignore my point about 9 point from 12 games? That's relegation form.

 

I'll take your silence as a yes.

 

Allardyce - 9 points from last 12 games = 0.75 points average per game

 

Ince - 12 points from last 15 games = 0.8 points average per game

 

 

But we're the deluded ones?

 

Yeah the difference being that Allardyce had produced good enough form for you before - 15 from 9 games (1.5 points per game) and at the highest level with Bolton to suggest that this was just poor form.

 

Ince had never managed in the Premier League and in his final 8 games achieved a grand total of 0 points. Thats 0 points per game.

 

Some difference.

 

 

Either way they're both relegation form and both had to go.

No, 12 points from 15 games = relegation form = sack.

 

26 points from 21 games = unspectacular form but not sackable. You can't judge a manager over 12 games - it's even more batshit mental than judging him over 21.

 

Even Ince - we wouldnt have sacked him unless we'd lost 8 in a row and were actually IN the relegation zone at the time.

[bigchrissamba 0]

This cunts not even English. How can people who go to games live in home cities have a debate with someone from Australia who probably couldn't even tell you where Blackburn is on a map let alone what colour Blackburn Central Mosque is. Debate over as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I'm actually a Blackburn Rovers fan from Tuvalu (that's the flag on my profile).

 

Use your head son.

[Kitman 2188]

That's the problem with you though. You needed stability at that time more than anything. You singularly failed to realise (and still fail to realise) that no one manager was going to take you from your state post Roeder, to a state where you'd be up there challenging with United again. You failed to realise football changed completely in the 10 years from 1997-2007. If you thought any club could get from where you were (5 points from relegation after Roeder) to even come close to challenging for the title in anything less than 7 or so years, without a Man City like cash injection, then you successfully satisfy all the deluded Geordie stereotypes. You want the one manager who will take you on that journey, when in fact you probably need a succession of managers.

 

No one said that one manager was going to do, as someone else has said in this thread we wanted progression, even if it was from 13th to 12th. Under Allardyce we were going backwards at an alarming rate. By the by, WE realised football had changed, WE realised we needed a change from top to tail, followed by a periood of stability, investment in youth and a scouting system of note, we knew we needed to stop buying players just for their name, we knew all of this, unfortunately WE don't get to make the decisons, that falls to the mororns at the top.

 

 

The reason why Sam would have been good for you was that you needed someone to get you in amongst the top half again, pushing Europe, shore up your backline which has always been poor, instill a bit of steel into your side which you badly missed last season. He's not an amazing manager by any stretch, but he's bloody effective at what he does. And when he left you were 11th. You mightn't have finished top half that season but you wouldnt have been relegated either considering you were 8 pts away when he left.

 

A back line hasn't always been poor and he did more to make it pourous than many others. Robson and Keegans (neither defensively minded) had better defence than your Fat Sam, we didn't have steel we had thugs, whats the point in a steely midfielder when he can't pass the ball once he's got it? Just as you're saying it's harsh of us to judge him after so few games,it's madness for you to think he'd have done any better if he'd stayed. 9 points from a possible 36. That's relegation form.

 

And no, we don't just strive to stay in the League. We've seen two more trophies this generation than you folks have, we finished top 10 the previous 3 seasons to this one (and has top 10 form in the 21 games that Allardyce took charge in) and have been finishing above your team for the last 4 or 5 seasons. We have every reason to believe we should be challenging amongst the top 10 (though new money for the likes of City and Villa makes this task difficult), and considering we've bettered that a good few seasons and won a domestic trophy it's not an unrealistic aim. You guys need to put those ambitions of being up there with United to bed, since it's about as likely to happen for you as it is for us.

So Newcastle United or Blackburn will never again challenge for the title? Fuck off. If it takes a decade or it take four I'll still be cheering us on. I'm quite happy to take the long view mate, but it seems you aren't You might be content with a top ten place, but that's not enough I want more. I want glory. If that means waiting until I'm 65, then so-fucking-be it.

 

I wonder, do you have an opinion of your own, or do you just use Sky Sports?

 

Barely watch Sky Sports except for the actual matches, and even then you can never take a panel with Jamie Redknapp on it very seriously.

 

9 points from a possible 36 - I guarantee you I can pick out a good third of the league who will have similar runs next season. It's a very poor run of form but you can't sack a manager for a poor run of form, especially when you weren't in any imminent danger of relegation. He'd picked up 15 points from his first 9 for a team that had finished 5 points from relegation the season before, or do those games not count in your overall assessment? You weren't going backwards under Sam, if you went backwards from 5 points from the drop you wouldve been around the drop zone at that point. It's complete madness to think he wouldve been relegated that season, whereas to think a manager who has got good results at his other two clubs (and who had started the season well with Newcastle) mightve made things better is perfectly reasonable thinking.

 

If you'd seen the team play week in week out, you'd know what a load of bollocks this statto stuff is.