Wally McFool 0 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 At the end of the day, Patrick Barclay called nearly 20,000 young children nitwits. He should be thoroughly ashamed of himself, the silly old cunt . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 It's staggering he's gone down this path. Pud put's forward perfectly reasonable questions to his ramblings and he does the equivelant of putting his fingers in his ears and shouting la la la I'm not listening to you. I really would like to see this get out to a wider audience to show him up for the fool he is. I still think the original article while not being anti Newcastle is condesending in its general tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/200...y-the-club.html On Monday, our Chief Football Commentator wondered if Newcastle fans should buy the club to save themelves from years of underachievement. Here he responds to your many replies. Unfortunately this ownership/Barcelona idea has been used before - to justify becoming a PLC. Cue Keegan's departure at additional interference, and while the Halls and Shepherds made a fortune over ten years - I mysteriously received nothing for my shares, being ineligible for Ashley's offer because I have moved abroad. Graham PB: That's true. The lessons of the past must be learned. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea, as many fans of other clubs, from Barcelona to Exeter, have discovered. What we really need is for all those ex-players, managers and others who think that the TOON need a fresh new start, to put some of the millions they earned off the fans to re-invest into the club, then we wouldn't need 200,000 fans paying £375 each, now would we? Cyprus-Toon PB: That would be nice. There would be nothing to prevent people with a higher disposable income from buying a group of shares, as long as no one could own more than, say, 1 per cent of the club. But what's frightening about £375 if it's invested soundly? Believe it or not, football could be a sound investment in the future. But that's another story. Although a very interesting idea in theory, as someone else has already stated, you point out that already 20,000 of our fans are 'nitwits' and I believe that this number is actually significantly higher. I tend to disagree with the majority of people's views both at games, in the pubs and on internet message boards. I fear that if the club was membership owned, the voting power of the 'nitwits' and bedsheet brigade would be a bad influence on our club. These are the people that would react similarly to Real Madrid fans and vote for a President based on their transfer targets, not the welfare and infrastructure building of the club. Newcastle has the beauty that everyone there supports the club, whether they are a football fan or not. Unfortunately, that could also be the downfall. You get a lot of people at games that have ridiculous expectations, only sing when we're winning and slate the team when we're not and probably couldn't tell you the name of a single reserve team player. People talk about 50,000 fans (52k minus the away support), but realistically, it is more like 30,000 fans and 20,000 'followers'. I would hate to see the future of the club managed by people that I perceive to not really know or care about the club. Although they couldn't do much worse than Ashley. Fergie PB: These are all good points, especially the last one! I think it's worth a try, because greater democracy would encourage enlightened people such as you as well as the ''nitwits''. Would the majority have wanted to sign Owen if they knew they had to pick up the tab for his wages? I think not. Would they demand a productive youth system? Call me naive, but I think they would. People look after their own houses and tend their gardens --- that's as much part of human nature as the yearning for a messiah. "Realistically getting Newcastle back into the premiership will also require many millions worth of investment in buying players", says Raj. Why? My club has just got into the premier league having spent virtually nothing (albeit via the play-offs). I'm sure NUFC have better players (and far more of them) than we have or will have for the forthcoming season. My detached view is that the Newcastle probably require LESS pressure and involvement from the fans, NOT more. Just get a decent manager in, be patient and let him get on with it. Let's face it Sam would have probably kept them up and by forcing him out it allowed our 'friends' from down the road to escape! James PB: Best of luck to Burnley. It's good to see them in the Premier League, albeit at Newcastle's expense. The point about football is that it's a team game. Newcastle had enough players to stay up - they just didn't play as a team, and least of all when Alan Shearer was in charge. If the stupid morons who turned up to cheer Owen bought a stake in the club wouldn't they be as much of a nuisance as Ashley? Would this even be achievable? If so why didn't Leeds fans do it or any other club that is worth less than 100m? Geoff Banks PB: I think Newcastle would be perfect for this idea because, unlike Leeds, it is a football-mad city in which people who don't normally follow football take an interest in the team. I gather Bilbao is similar. The nitwits would have a vote if they paid up, but responsibility would surely bring a measure of wisdom. The Newcastle United Supporters Club is less than year old and how many members does it have? Even if these figures are correct, co-ordinating 200,000 people isn't a simple business. If it were then fans could boycott until Ashley goes bankrupt then get the club even cheaper. Mark PB: The boycott idea is a good one. I stopped short of recommending it because I think it would offend most fans and can understand why. Co-ordination would require the hiring of experts, as in the case of an old-fashioned building society or a charity - look at how Sir Bobby Robson's cancer fund has succeeded. I gather the NUSC has 1,200 members. Part of my intention in writing the article was to encourage people to join. An interesting idea. Key for this to succeed, assuming the club is in fact bought by the supporters, are the following:1. Hiring a competent CEO and Chairman to run the Club.2. Pragmatic procedures of running the club which balance democracy with the need for Board decision-making.3. Appropriate fo ra for representing supporter-owners. Rhys Jaggar PB: Hello, Rhys. I agree with the need for good management. But I do think the paying public would make better decisions than the likes of Ashley. I can't think of any fan stupid or ignorant enough to appoint Dennis Wise, for example. Yes, democracy would work as it does in any other sphere. The elected ones would get on with the job - there wouldn't be a plebiscite on who should play left midfield or anything like that. But I would like to see managerial appointments endorsed by the fan/owners. It would strengthen the manager's hand. I can see how this may seem as a good idea initially. But getting Newcastle back into the Premiership will also require many millions worth of investment in buying players. Where would this money come from? Realistically I can see Newcastle only managing to raise £15m from player sales and that wouldn't make a great dent into the team which would need a lot of strengthening. Would you ask the fans to add in another 100 quid to pay for this? And how would you discriminate if people were willing to contribute the initial 375 quid but not any further payments? There would be so many logistical issues with the fans buying the club. Raj PB: All good questions. Investment would be necessary in the real world. So would long-termism. The club's future would depend as much on youth development and good scouting as anything else. Even the biggest clubs do that - look at Barcelona with their Catalan base. People would have to be patient. The alternative is to hope that the next so-called benefactor is a Jack Walker rather than a Mike Ashley. But even Walker's Blackburn were relegated. Long-termism is the only way. How deluded can some people be? What on earth makes Newcastle fans think they should, or will even be allowed to be involved in the decision making process at their football club? Does Ferguson have a committee of fans advise him? The last thing Newcastle needs is the interference of those that you have just painted in such poor light. What they need is an owner who will let the manager manage, and of course a manager who can actually manage. So what would happen if they got together and tried to take over the club themselves? You just have to read the forums and letters pages to see just how much supporters know about football. Archie Brand PB: I agree, Archie, about the stupidity of many of the mouthier fans and believe that a manager must be allowed to manage with only the most expert and constructive interference - even Ferguson listens to the likes of Sir Bobby Charlton and, when he was alive, Sir Matt Busby. Yes, a good owner would be lovely, especially if he had deep pockets and the best of intentions. But everyone is looking for those - and no one can find them. There must be a Plan B. in Patrick Barclay, The debate | Permalink TrackBack TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/...11571269753970b Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Patrick Barclay's debate replies: Should Newcastle fans buy the club?: Comments "If the stupid morons who turned up to cheer Owen bought a stake in the club wouldn't they be as much of a nuisance as Ashley? " Patrick Barclay calls nearly 20,000 young children nitwits and morons and expects them to find a few hundred pounds each to fund buying a football club. You should be ashamed of yourself for writing tripe like this, you miserable, pathetic old man. LOL! Posted by: Dave Holliday | 18 Jun 2009 19:11:15 Patrick Rennie - Alan Shearer has been a manager for, oh, 8 games, taking over a sinking ship and players who hated each other and the club. Players who weren't training, who solicited offers from other clubs - even senior players such as Owen who had simply given up. Whilst you're right to point out that results were poor under Shearer, there's no doubt that we would have gone down whoever was in charge. The writing was on the wall long before Shearer was brought in. What Shearer did well was sorting out the basic issues behind the scenes, in particular the dire fitness of the whole team. But in the end the pedestrian attitude of the players, the failure to stand up and be counted, and costly mistake after mistake by individuals, shows that we went down despite Shearer, not because of him. To then dismiss Shearer is to buy into the short-termism that resulted in our relegation, to openly state that because things didn't work out instantly they never will. I have no idea whether Shearer is a good manager because he hasn't had a chance to do anything. He may be terrible, average, or great - but he needs to be given an opportunity to prove himself. After Shearer retired the prevailing view amongst the people who sit with me at SJP was that Shearer should go to a lower league team to earn his stripes. Sadly, we're now that team. When Bobby Robson was our manager we went on a run of 15 games with terrible to mediocre results. We were in the Champions League the next season. Everyone needs time, Shearer hasn't even had a chance to get started. Posted by: Dan | 18 Jun 2009 15:08:05 I am sick and tired of hearing that Alan Shearer must become the next manager to help steer Newcastle back to the Premier League. My hat goes of to you, Patrick Barclay, for pointing out that the team and the results were poor under his guidance at the end of the seaon. Quite simply, Shearer did nowhere near enough to keep Newcastle up. They had the easiest run in and, as hindsight tells us, they didn't actually need to amass too many points. They relied entirely on Hull falling below rather than trying to climb above the teams around them. Alan Shearer is not a good manager. He never seemed like he would be and his results back him up. I don't care if he knows the club from Mike Ashley to the tea-lady, results are what will save Newcastle and a good manager would be the best thing they could do. It's too late now, but why was Steve Bruce never considered? He's a Geordie a cracking manager, patrticualy at the level Newcastle were at. He would have been perfect to take over, steer them away from relegation and help them get back on the road to (nearly) success. Posted by: Patrick Rennie | 18 Jun 2009 14:14:23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13814 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 He will only respond to ignorant muppets. What a shock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 The bottom line is that the club is up for sale now. The work involved in organising a buy out is huge; it's not viable to do it from a standing start and present a credible bid in the time frame Ashley wants. In addition the fund raising and organisation of the bid is a full time job for experts who'll need to be recruited and paid. The idea the whole thing could be pulled off for 375 per supporter is risible and that's before you even look at how to fund the club's losses and other financial needs which will continue for some time to come. Or actually think through how it would work in practice. Or consider people's experience of owning shares in the club last time around. So he's constructed a wholly unrealistic scenario and then used it as a stick to beat the fans with. It's so crazy I can only assume it's attention seeking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 He's either a WUM or a nutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12447 Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 (edited) Wow. What a complete and utter arrogant cock that bloke is. I'm fed up of this Barcelona link, Barcelona have been ran that way for a long long time they also have a lot of mega rich members and the city itself is much larger and richer than Newcastle. The "as many fans of other clubs, from Barcelona to Exeter, have discovered." is laughable when did Exeter or Barcelona fans have to cough up £75m? Also the logistics etc of organizing 200,000 people is mental they'd all have equal say so who would take the lead also what stops sad mackems and that sort grabbing a stake, who would perform due dilligence etc, who gets season tickets it would lead to situations where on one side there's a bloke who's had a season ticket for 40 year but can't afford the money for a stake in the club and the other is a bloke who did pay for a stake but has never owned a season ticket. All these problems plus tonnes of others before even getting to problems (which have already been mentioned) like where does the money to pay the clubs debts, expenditures etc come from? it's a fucking stupid suggestion. Saying we can't call ourselves supporters because we cannot muster up £75m between us to buy the club is shocking, I'd wager that we're probably one of if not the most expensive club to buy in the Championship, and a fair bit of the Premiership, even at our lowered price so why don't all of those clubs fans buy their clubs. Just noticed this bit "PB: I think Newcastle would be perfect for this idea because, unlike Leeds, it is a football-mad city in which people who don't normally follow football take an interest in the team. I gather Bilbao is similar." So what are we? can he not make his mind up one minute we are shit fans because we wont buy the club but on the other we're mad about our club. Edited June 18, 2009 by Barton7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Wow. What a complete and utter arrogant cock that bloke is. I'm fed up of this Barcelona link, Barcelona have been ran that way for a long long time they also have a lot of mega rich members and the city itself is much larger and richer than Newcastle. The "as many fans of other clubs, from Barcelona to Exeter, have discovered." is laughable when did Exeter or Barcelona fans have to cough up £75m? Also the logistics etc of organizing 200,000 people is mental they'd all have equal say so who would take the lead also what stops sad mackems and that sort grabbing a stake, who would perform due dilligence etc, who gets season tickets it would lead to situations where on one side there's a bloke who's had a season ticket for 40 year but can't afford the money for a stake in the club and the other is a bloke who did pay for a stake but has never owned a season ticket. All these problems plus tonnes of others before even getting to problems (which have already been mentioned) like where does the money to pay the clubs debts, expenditures etc come from? it's a fucking stupid suggestion. Saying we can't call ourselves supporters because we cannot muster up £75m between us to buy the club is shocking, I'd wager that we're probably one of if not the most expensive club to buy in the Championship, and a fair bit of the Premiership, even at our lowered price so why don't all of those clubs fans buy their clubs. Just noticed this bit "PB: I think Newcastle would be perfect for this idea because, unlike Leeds, it is a football-mad city in which people who don't normally follow football take an interest in the team. I gather Bilbao is similar." So what are we? can he not make his mind up one minute we are shit fans because we wont buy the club but on the other we're mad about our club. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 The Newcastle United Supporters Club is less than year old and how many members does it have? Even if these figures are correct, co-ordinating 200,000 people isn't a simple business. If it were then fans could boycott until Ashley goes bankrupt then get the club even cheaper. Mark PB: The boycott idea is a good one. I stopped short of recommending it because I think it would offend most fans and can understand why. Co-ordination would require the hiring of experts, as in the case of an old-fashioned building society or a charity - look at how Sir Bobby Robson's cancer fund has succeeded. I gather the NUSC has 1,200 members. Part of my intention in writing the article was to encourage people to join. Yeah Patrick brilliant idea, we hold off paying any money to the club so it hurts Ashley and so we get it cheaper. How much after Administration? how much after the loss of every single player and replacing them with part-timers. We'll start about 10 points down but what the hell we'll save some cash. As for the last sentence, thats why you included the link to the website and mentioned NUSC by name isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 It's why I tend to stick to the Telegraph for intelligent sport writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Comparing a cancer fund to running a football club? Fuck me sideways. What a plank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 He's absolutely leaving in a dream land. He's also no clue about continental club structures and law of associations and how it works. His comparisons to a club like Barcelona who got founded as a social club are not even idealistic, they are just simplistic. He just likes his idea and therefore thinks he is right. What a spanner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 And running a football club is easy anyway, not only successfull but also on a profit for the benefit of its members. I'm sure the likes of Ashley, Bates, Ridsdale, Gillette et al will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Comparing a cancer fund to running a football club? Fuck me sideways. What a plank. Donate £100 to cancer treatment or £100 to Germemi's wages? It's a toughie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13814 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Keep it in the bedroom you two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? its the right thing to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26191 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? its the right thing to do Given that he has a link to this thread, do you think that's the best advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6290 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? its the right thing to do Given that he has a link to this thread, do you think that's the best advice? Considering he called us a bunch of whores...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? its the right thing to do Given that he has a link to this thread, do you think that's the best advice? Considering he called us a bunch of whores...? Expert knowledge put to use obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6290 Posted June 19, 2009 Share Posted June 19, 2009 I guess we're in danger of lowering ourselves to his own shoddy levels... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 I guess we're in danger of lowering ourselves to his own shoddy levels... pah Its a risk Id be willing to take. If nothing else, a PM would suffice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-I-S-S-O-K-O 0 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 Am I allowed to share my knowledge of Patrick Barkley's taste in prostitutes here? Just litter the text with 'allegedly's' and dish the dirt on the jock slaphead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 It's like being in a doctor's waiting room - waiting, waiting, waiting. C'mon, Dr, I aint gettin' any younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted June 20, 2009 Share Posted June 20, 2009 It's like being in a doctor's waiting room - waiting, waiting, waiting. C'mon, Dr, I aint gettin' any younger. A Soviet doctor's waiting room at that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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