manc-mag 1 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Aye, nice one. Stay of the sauce it's embarrasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Aye, nice one. Stay of the sauce it's embarrasing. well son, I've not been "on the sauce" but as usual you're a tit of the highest calibre. Still supporting Ashley are you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manc-mag 1 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Brilliant. You just carry on quoting yourself then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Brilliant. You just carry on quoting yourself then. boring cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsbaia 0 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Huge LOLs in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 For fucks sake lads..... For what its worth, I said at the time "anyone is worth a gamble to get rid of Shepherd" and now I can safely say I was wrong, the gamble failed big time and we're now fucked. The only criticism we have of Shepherd (as far as running the club is concerned) was that he made some terrible managerial decisions, most of them though were terrible in hindsight, Dalglish, Gullit, Robson were all well established, successful managers before coming here so they should have done well. Allardyce was a poor decision, Souness was his big, big "what the fuck is he doing" moment and Roeder was the cheap choice. In all cases though, as Leazes has repeated many a time, Shepherd backed those managers, he installed them and then he backed them with the money to spend on what they believed to be good buys. The fact they were generally shit is not down to Freddy, its the fault of those that asked him for the cash. Those of you that sit here now moaning about how much debt he put us into didnt moan at the time, I imagine that we could search through the archives here and be hard pushed to find one post since the place began that said "Im worried that we shouldnt buy anyone because we're spending too much here". With the right manager in place (which we hope we have with Shearer) then the biggest mistake Shepherd can make will already be out of his hands, its then down to him to back Al as he has done in the past. Maybe, with others behind him in a consorteum then he wont be able to make some of the downright dodgy deals he did in the past (such as selling his brother a warehouse that he could then rent to the club at a ridiculously inflated amount). I have no doubts that Shepherd is not the best we could do as a chairman/owner howver we dont have the luxury of being able to pick and choose and for every Shepherd theres probably 3 Ashleys that could purchase us and thats a scary thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Pud, I know why you've said what you've said and it does follow some degree of logic... however, going back to Shepherd would spell disaster for this club. Bear in mind how we got into the ruinous position in the first place. Ashley wouldn't have come anywhere near the club if we were acheving all that we could. Ashley bought a club on the ropes, a club that had been so woefully mismanaged by Shepherd and his cronies that we looked like a bargain basement buy, that only needed tweaking. Ashley got it horribly wrong, but there is absolutely NO way Shepherd should come back. Think of how untouchable he'd feel, think of what he'd believe he could get away with. Imagine if, instead of shit premiership managers, he installs shit championship managers... Could this club survive another Ashley? No, course not. Could we survive Shepherd again? I hardly think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17634 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 For fucks sake lads..... For what its worth, I said at the time "anyone is worth a gamble to get rid of Shepherd" and now I can safely say I was wrong, the gamble failed big time and we're now fucked. The only criticism we have of Shepherd (as far as running the club is concerned) was that he made some terrible managerial decisions, most of them though were terrible in hindsight, Dalglish, Gullit, Robson were all well established, successful managers before coming here so they should have done well. Allardyce was a poor decision, Souness was his big, big "what the fuck is he doing" moment and Roeder was the cheap choice. In all cases though, as Leazes has repeated many a time, Shepherd backed those managers, he installed them and then he backed them with the money to spend on what they believed to be good buys. The fact they were generally shit is not down to Freddy, its the fault of those that asked him for the cash. Those of you that sit here now moaning about how much debt he put us into didnt moan at the time, I imagine that we could search through the archives here and be hard pushed to find one post since the place began that said "Im worried that we shouldnt buy anyone because we're spending too much here". With the right manager in place (which we hope we have with Shearer) then the biggest mistake Shepherd can make will already be out of his hands, its then down to him to back Al as he has done in the past. Maybe, with others behind him in a consorteum then he wont be able to make some of the downright dodgy deals he did in the past (such as selling his brother a warehouse that he could then rent to the club at a ridiculously inflated amount). I have no doubts that Shepherd is not the best we could do as a chairman/owner howver we dont have the luxury of being able to pick and choose and for every Shepherd theres probably 3 Ashleys that could purchase us and thats a scary thought. Managerial choice is your (who's we?) only criticism? You don't feel he owes any responsibility for the debt he brought to the club leaving us with the crippling wage bill we have today? You don't have anything negative to say about the money he and the Halls took from the club, making them extremely wealthy men in the process? The outrageous salaries and dividends, rewarded to themselves regardless of how the club was doing on the pitch, not to mention cronyism and other financial irregularities. You don't have any comment on the Halls and Shepherds appalling PR and numerous public gaffes? Just to make it absolutely clear, I regard all these failures entirely independently of Ashley and none of this mitigates his disastrous reign. But how quickly are we supposed to forget Shepherd's own failures, which have played at least part of the mess we have found ourselves in now? Any talk of a return of Shepherd and company is an utterly nauseating prospect. Oh, and at least 3 of those managers required no hindsight to see they were very, very bad decisions. To use the words 'only criticism' slighly underplays his failure in the one area of his work he absolutely had to get right. Not to mention the unbelievably bad timing and of his dismissals which then forced us into the next bad choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 For fucks sake lads..... For what its worth, I said at the time "anyone is worth a gamble to get rid of Shepherd" and now I can safely say I was wrong, the gamble failed big time and we're now fucked. The only criticism we have of Shepherd (as far as running the club is concerned) was that he made some terrible managerial decisions, most of them though were terrible in hindsight, Dalglish, Gullit, Robson were all well established, successful managers before coming here so they should have done well. Allardyce was a poor decision, Souness was his big, big "what the fuck is he doing" moment and Roeder was the cheap choice. In all cases though, as Leazes has repeated many a time, Shepherd backed those managers, he installed them and then he backed them with the money to spend on what they believed to be good buys. The fact they were generally shit is not down to Freddy, its the fault of those that asked him for the cash. Those of you that sit here now moaning about how much debt he put us into didnt moan at the time, I imagine that we could search through the archives here and be hard pushed to find one post since the place began that said "Im worried that we shouldnt buy anyone because we're spending too much here". With the right manager in place (which we hope we have with Shearer) then the biggest mistake Shepherd can make will already be out of his hands, its then down to him to back Al as he has done in the past. Maybe, with others behind him in a consorteum then he wont be able to make some of the downright dodgy deals he did in the past (such as selling his brother a warehouse that he could then rent to the club at a ridiculously inflated amount). I have no doubts that Shepherd is not the best we could do as a chairman/owner howver we dont have the luxury of being able to pick and choose and for every Shepherd theres probably 3 Ashleys that could purchase us and thats a scary thought. Managerial choice is your (who's we?) only criticism? You don't feel he owes any responsibility for the debt he brought to the club leaving us with the crippling wage bill we have today? You don't have anything negative to say about the money he and the Halls took from the club, making them extremely wealthy men in the process? The outrageous salaries and dividends, rewarded to themselves regardless of how the club was doing on the pitch, not to mention cronyism and other financial irregularities. You don't have any comment on the Halls and Shepherds appalling PR and numerous public gaffes? Just to make it absolutely clear, I regard all these failures entirely independently of Ashley and none of this mitigates his disastrous reign. But how quickly are we supposed to forget Shepherd's own failures, which have played at least part of the mess we have found ourselves in now? Any talk of a return of Shepherd and company is an utterly nauseating prospect. Oh, and at least 3 of those managers required no hindsight to see they were very, very bad decisions. To use the words 'only criticism' slighly underplays his failure in the one area of his work he absolutely had to get right. Not to mention the unbelievably bad timing and of his dismissals which then forced us into the next bad choice. It's not all down to Freddy.....the Halls must take their share of the blame for the dodgy appointments, they were the majority shareholders after all. To be fair I could see the point of Allardyce, especially with the money all gone, so I wouldn't put him in the same category as Souness and Roeder. Souness there is absolutely no fucking excuse for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't think the debt he put us in is a terrible thing no, he did it with the belief that it would bring success on the pitch. It failed yes but it's been proven elsewhere that it's the only way to gain that success (see the fact that a third of all the football leagues debt is owed by the top 4). We've proven this season that to avoid debt is disasterous both for the team and balance sheet. I'm a critic of Shepherd, always have been but there's a lot worse possibilities out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 The debate shouldnt be about personalities it should be about clearly articulating where Ashley went wrong, what was missing at the club and how that can be rectified in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stevie Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Huge LOLs in here. ;) :omgwank: :omgwank: :omgwank: There are threads which end up "gold" which are largely wank. However, there's 10-12 posts in this thread, which deserve actually putting in a time capsule and dug in the ground for people to read in 100 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I don't think the debt he put us in is a terrible thing no, he did it with the belief that it would bring success on the pitch. It failed yes but it's been proven elsewhere that it's the only way to gain that success (see the fact that a third of all the football leagues debt is owed by the top 4). We've proven this season that to avoid debt is disasterous both for the team and balance sheet. I'm a critic of Shepherd, always have been but there's a lot worse possibilities out there. There are, that doesn't mean we won't Shepherd back though. That's like intentionally getting the clap again because AIDs is out there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34196 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Canny funny really that Shepherd basically ran the club totally irresponsibly from a financial standpoint, saddled us with a near catastrophic level of debt, then manages to get some thick cockney berk to come along, pay off all the debt, fix a lot of the mess he created (albeit relegating us in the process), and then goes "Reet I think I'll have another crack now. Thanks Mike." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 however we already have Aids so someone coming along and saying "swap your aids for the clap" should be snapped up before it fucks up your system even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17634 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Canny funny really that Shepherd basically ran the club totally irresponsibly from a financial standpoint, saddled us with a near catastrophic level of debt, then manages to get some thick cockney berk to come along, pay off all the debt, fix a lot of the mess he created (albeit relegating us in the process), and then goes "Reet I think I'll have another crack now. Thanks Mike." Shepherd is one fat lucky bastard, that's the truth. He's had his time, how anyone can seriously want him back is beyond all comprehension to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Canny funny really that Shepherd basically ran the club totally irresponsibly from a financial standpoint, saddled us with a near catastrophic level of debt, then manages to get some thick cockney berk to come along, pay off all the debt, fix a lot of the mess he created (albeit relegating us in the process), and then goes "Reet I think I'll have another crack now. Thanks Mike." Shepherd is one fat lucky bastard, that's the truth. He's had his time, how anyone can seriously want him back is beyond all comprehension to me. I don't like the idea of him coming in very much but compared to Ashley staying then to coin a Freddy phrase "I'll drive him there myself". The other alternatives are unknowns so it could be frying pan n fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17634 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Canny funny really that Shepherd basically ran the club totally irresponsibly from a financial standpoint, saddled us with a near catastrophic level of debt, then manages to get some thick cockney berk to come along, pay off all the debt, fix a lot of the mess he created (albeit relegating us in the process), and then goes "Reet I think I'll have another crack now. Thanks Mike." Shepherd is one fat lucky bastard, that's the truth. He's had his time, how anyone can seriously want him back is beyond all comprehension to me. I don't like the idea of him coming in very much but compared to Ashley staying then to coin a Freddy phrase "I'll drive him there myself". The other alternatives are unknowns so it could be frying pan n fire. It'd be the end of my season ticket and I suspect many others. Even if I accept he did a good job (which I don't other than he lucked out on Robson), I'm a firm believer of the saying 'never go back'. It never works, and in comparative terms, Shepherd isn't even wealthy, despite the money he plundered from the club. The fact is we were disastrously unlucky with Ashley, it doesn't follow though that we will be that unlucky again or we should take a 'better the devil you know' or 'once bitten twice shy' attitude. Shepherd was never the future for us the day he sacked Robson four games into a season and replaced him with Souness. It is that point in time that you can objectively pin point the decline in our club financially as well as on the pitch. He'll never be forgiven for it by me (and as I say, I suspect many others). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Canny funny really that Shepherd basically ran the club totally irresponsibly from a financial standpoint, saddled us with a near catastrophic level of debt, then manages to get some thick cockney berk to come along, pay off all the debt, fix a lot of the mess he created (albeit relegating us in the process), and then goes "Reet I think I'll have another crack now. Thanks Mike." Shepherd is one fat lucky bastard, that's the truth. He's had his time, how anyone can seriously want him back is beyond all comprehension to me. I don't like the idea of him coming in very much but compared to Ashley staying then to coin a Freddy phrase "I'll drive him there myself". The other alternatives are unknowns so it could be frying pan n fire. Aye, it could. But I'd rather move forward. Anyway it's not a choice between Ashley or Shepherd though, it it? I just see no benefit to going back to Shepherd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34196 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Beggars can't be choosers. Shepherd might be our only option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Ashley is the only one who's begging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5890 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Shepherd has his (many) flaws, but he loves the club. Some random arab might fancy us as his play thing for a few years but once he pulled out wed be up shit creek again. I dont see many other options tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You don't see many other options because no one know's who's in the field. Another Ashley is as likely as a Gibson imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 You don't see many other options because no one know's who's in the field. Another Ashley is as likely as a Gibson imo I would disagree, the chances of getting a muppet increases as the price drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8954 Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 Well, yeah. I'm not saying that we're guaranteed a great owner if we don't go for Shepherd, I'm saying we'll definitely get a bad one if we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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