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When I try to view the link it says "Sorry Bolton Zulu, you are banned from this forum. Fuck off."

 

Whilst I find that a trifle harsh I do admire their candid approach. :D

 

 

typical women !!!

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This sums up my position far better than I could put over.........Quaysides post that received little argument back

 

I didn't have the time then, and I don't now either to fully respond to that post and I hate just picking certain points out of posts as it looks like you have no answer to the points you ignore. Having said that, that's precisely what I'm going to do now:

 

When Ashley took over there was a refinancing package which was about to go through. What this entailed no-one ever revealed to my knowledge, but I can't see how anything like that would have been going ahead if the club was about to go bankrupt.

 

It's a bit rich quayside saying the operating loss figure I quoted just for info was irrelevant (I also quoted the loss after trading & amortisation & interest payments and used that figure in my argument) and then going on to base his arguments on the reduction of the net worth of the company. The majority of the reduction in the net worth of the company in the last years of the old board was due to the reduced book value of the players due to amortisation. This is a consequence of spending a large amount in one season (Owen & Luque, etc) which boosts the assets of the company in that year, but will inevitably reduce year on year if subsequent years do not have the same outlay on players. The value of the playing staff on the accounts is quite often not a true reflection of the actual value of the squad if you were to try and sell them, so to use these numbers in a year on year comparison can be very misleading. It leads to people saying things like "we lost £30m in 05-06" when in fact we spent about £10m more than we brought in which I think gives a much clearer idea of how we actually did in that financial year. As I said at the time, not great, but certainly not spiralling out of control considering we were due to get a £18m boost in turnover the following year from TV revenue alone.

 

In contrast, the man who was sorting out our finances managed to spend £30 to £40m* more than we brought in in his first year, even with that extra TV money, whilst weakening the squad, and people were praising him for it! You've actually got to give the man some credit for being able to pull that one off.

 

 

* I've not actually seen the 07-08 accounts, but these figures are based on the reported debt levels in 07 and 08.

Are you sure that re-financing package wasn't the one that was aborted not long before ashley came on the scene and cost NUFC around 2million. ?

 

I agree about the way players are valued is quite arbitrary but that doesn't take away that the club was making quite hefty operating losses on real cash.

 

Was the 18million actually 18million extra ? as in for example, one season we received 12mill tv/media revenue then the season after 18million. which isn't a new 18million into the revenue stream but an extra 6mill on the previous season.

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This sums up my position far better than I could put over.........Quaysides post that received little argument back

 

I didn't have the time then, and I don't now either to fully respond to that post and I hate just picking certain points out of posts as it looks like you have no answer to the points you ignore. Having said that, that's precisely what I'm going to do now:

 

When Ashley took over there was a refinancing package which was about to go through. What this entailed no-one ever revealed to my knowledge, but I can't see how anything like that would have been going ahead if the club was about to go bankrupt.

 

It's a bit rich quayside saying the operating loss figure I quoted just for info was irrelevant (I also quoted the loss after trading & amortisation & interest payments and used that figure in my argument) and then going on to base his arguments on the reduction of the net worth of the company. The majority of the reduction in the net worth of the company in the last years of the old board was due to the reduced book value of the players due to amortisation. This is a consequence of spending a large amount in one season (Owen & Luque, etc) which boosts the assets of the company in that year, but will inevitably reduce year on year if subsequent years do not have the same outlay on players. The value of the playing staff on the accounts is quite often not a true reflection of the actual value of the squad if you were to try and sell them, so to use these numbers in a year on year comparison can be very misleading. It leads to people saying things like "we lost £30m in 05-06" when in fact we spent about £10m more than we brought in which I think gives a much clearer idea of how we actually did in that financial year. As I said at the time, not great, but certainly not spiralling out of control considering we were due to get a £18m boost in turnover the following year from TV revenue alone.

 

In contrast, the man who was sorting out our finances managed to spend £30 to £40m* more than we brought in in his first year, even with that extra TV money, whilst weakening the squad, and people were praising him for it! You've actually got to give the man some credit for being able to pull that one off.

 

 

* I've not actually seen the 07-08 accounts, but these figures are based on the reported debt levels in 07 and 08.

Are you sure that re-financing package wasn't the one that was aborted not long before ashley came on the scene and cost NUFC around 2million. ?

 

I agree about the way players are valued is quite arbitrary but that doesn't take away that the club was making quite hefty operating losses on real cash.

 

Was the 18million actually 18million extra ? as in for example, one season we received 12mill tv/media revenue then the season after 18million. which isn't a new 18million into the revenue stream but an extra 6mill on the previous season.

 

know what mate. Just like all the other dickheads on NO, you have taken your eye off what matters just to look for a stick to beat the old board with. In case you haven't noticed, while you've been doing that, we've been relegated.

 

Wait for the revenue to dive, then look at your accounts again.

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clock_groundhog_day.jpg

 

<_<

 

aye, its amazing how you re-appear when this particular subject surfaces.

 

I was right though wasn't I ?

 

You can fuck off again now.

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Are you sure that re-financing package wasn't the one that was aborted not long before ashley came on the scene and cost NUFC around 2million. ?
At the beginning of 2007 the Group began work on a major refinancing project which was due to be in place by 30 June 2007. However following the acquisition of the Company on 15 June 2007 by St James Holdings Limited, this project was aborted and the costs incurred to date which would, had the project gone ahead as planned, have been amortised over the period of the new finance have been written off in full in the year.

So in fact even the pre-Ashley accounts were worse off due to Ashley's takeover.

 

I agree about the way players are valued is quite arbitrary but that doesn't take away that the club was making quite hefty operating losses on real cash.

Around £10m, or less if you take off the up front costs of the aborted refinancing due to Ashley's takeover.

 

Was the 18million actually 18million extra ? as in for example, one season we received 12mill tv/media revenue then the season after 18million. which isn't a new 18million into the revenue stream but an extra 6mill on the previous season.

Yes it was http://soccerlens.com/20072008-premier-lea...v-revenue/7415/

 

Television revenue for 2007-08 season

 

(2006-07 in brackets)

 

Manchester United £49.3m (£32m)

Chelsea £45.6m (£30.9m)

Arsenal £47m (£29m)

Liverpool £45.4m (£28.4m)

Everton £42.1m (£25.3m)

Aston Villa £42.3m (£22m)

Blackburn Rovers £40.2m (£22m)

Portsmouth £40.4m (£23m)

Manchester City £39.7m (£21m)

West Ham United £36.8m (£21.1m)

Tottenham Hotspur £36m (£27.3m)

Newcastle United £39.2m (£21.2m)

Middlesbrough £34.2m (£20.5m)

Wigan Athletic £33.4m (£18.4m)

Sunderland £33.6m (£6.5m*)

Bolton Wanderers £32m (£24.6m)

Fulham £31.3m (£20.4m)

Reading £30.6m (£23.6m)

Birmingham City £29.8m (£6.5m*)

Derby County £29.1m (n/a)

 

Total £815,175,812 (£502,533,570)

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Pretty amazed more people aren't more pissed off with what Assley seems utterly determined to do to us this season. :omgwank:

 

 

 

Frankly even if we do manage to go straight back up, that won't help too much if we're in such a bad state we come straight back down again..... but that's at the optimistic end of the scale, another relegation or the liquidation of the club are more likely today than relegation was in the 1st week of last season.

 

Fuck knows where we'll be if Assley can't sell us, or maybe worse if he manages to sell us to someone that just totally cannot afford the club. <_<

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clock_groundhog_day.jpg

:lol:

But surely we have to include player trading as it is an incoming/outgoing of cash ? and yes there would have been a boost of 18mill the following season, all of which,unless I've read it wrong, would have been used to cover some of the previous years shortfall, still leaving more to need to be borrowed and then having already been used you'd be looking to borrow more the following season unless there were to be some drastic cost-cutting or an extra revenue stream (ie euro success) was found. On a side note I don't know if that fee incurred with the refinancing deal would have been payable regardless,kind of a mortgage arrangement style fee, anyone know ?

 

Just out of curiosity UV, do you think in the latter years of the previous board we were going forwards as a club, backwards or treading water ? as I'm fairly sure the majority on here seen us as going backwards.

 

Nice to discuss this with someone who answers the question and doesn't resort to name calling though. Cheers.

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Pretty amazed more people aren't more pissed off with what Assley seems utterly determined to do to us this season. :icon_lol:

 

 

 

Frankly even if we do manage to go straight back up, that won't help too much if we're in such a bad state we come straight back down again..... but that's at the optimistic end of the scale, another relegation or the liquidation of the club are more likely today than relegation was in the 1st week of last season.

 

Fuck knows where we'll be if Assley can't sell us, or maybe worse if he manages to sell us to someone that just totally cannot afford the club. :lol:

 

He's not putting anymore money in.

The overdraft is rising.

There are no buyers who want to pay what he wants.

A crunchtime is coming.......

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clock_groundhog_day.jpg

:lol:

But surely we have to include player trading as it is an incoming/outgoing of cash ? and yes there would have been a boost of 18mill the following season, all of which,unless I've read it wrong, would have been used to cover some of the previous years shortfall, still leaving more to need to be borrowed and then having already been used you'd be looking to borrow more the following season unless there were to be some drastic cost-cutting or an extra revenue stream (ie euro success) was found. On a side note I don't know if that fee incurred with the refinancing deal would have been payable regardless,kind of a mortgage arrangement style fee, anyone know ?

 

Just out of curiosity UV, do you think in the latter years of the previous board we were going forwards as a club, backwards or treading water ? as I'm fairly sure the majority on here seen us as going backwards.

 

Nice to discuss this with someone who answers the question and doesn't resort to name calling though. Cheers.

 

 

The time for discussing is long gone.

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Pretty amazed more people aren't more pissed off with what Assley seems utterly determined to do to us this season. :icon_lol:

 

 

 

Frankly even if we do manage to go straight back up, that won't help too much if we're in such a bad state we come straight back down again..... but that's at the optimistic end of the scale, another relegation or the liquidation of the club are more likely today than relegation was in the 1st week of last season.

 

Fuck knows where we'll be if Assley can't sell us, or maybe worse if he manages to sell us to someone that just totally cannot afford the club. :lol:

 

He's not putting anymore money in.

The overdraft is rising.

There are no buyers who want to pay what he wants.

A crunchtime is coming.......

 

Can't imagine what he will achieve with another season under his belt. :razz:

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clock_groundhog_day.jpg

:lol:

But surely we have to include player trading as it is an incoming/outgoing of cash ? and yes there would have been a boost of 18mill the following season, all of which,unless I've read it wrong, would have been used to cover some of the previous years shortfall, still leaving more to need to be borrowed and then having already been used you'd be looking to borrow more the following season unless there were to be some drastic cost-cutting or an extra revenue stream (ie euro success) was found. On a side note I don't know if that fee incurred with the refinancing deal would have been payable regardless,kind of a mortgage arrangement style fee, anyone know ?

 

Just out of curiosity UV, do you think in the latter years of the previous board we were going forwards as a club, backwards or treading water ? as I'm fairly sure the majority on here seen us as going backwards.

 

Nice to discuss this with someone who answers the question and doesn't resort to name calling though. Cheers.

 

 

The time for discussing is long gone.

 

it was gone ages ago, some are intent on carrying on with this insistence that a football club should be run like a high street store though.

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