Renton 17744 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved. I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! That's a strawman argument of Fop poportions. Once again, what specific mistakes do you think Brown should apologise for? Do you think it's normal for a PM to apologise for his policies? Or indeed are you just using this issue to have a go at Brown because you don't personally like him, just as Phillips has done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved. I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Is the apology for sending the kids to Australia? Warranted imo. Poor kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Do you reckon you'd even be making this point AA if that Melanie Phillips hadn't done so in today's Mail? Edited November 16, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved. I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. slight fudging of the dialogue there Happy. what i was asking in that instance is where do the apologies stop? i dont think i ever said the apology was unwarranted?? as to saying the apology is justified, fair enough, it is, but again, In my personal opinion, I believe he should own up to his own shortcomings/mistake, whatever you wish to call it, before he has a pop at someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do you reckon you'd even be making this point AA if that Melanie Phillips hadn't done so in today's Mail? probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do you reckon you'd even be making this point AA if that Melanie Phillips hadn't done so in today's Mail? probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website Aye, but you seem to swallow anything the Mail says at face value which is why I asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved. I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. slight fudging of the dialogue there Happy. what i was asking in that instance is where do the apologies stop? i dont think i ever said the apology was unwarranted?? as to saying the apology is justified, fair enough, it is, but again, In my personal opinion, I believe he should own up to his own shortcomings/mistake, whatever you wish to call it, before he has a pop at someone else's. As Alex says. Given that he believes in the policies of his government and doesn't believe an apology is deserved for them. And given that he isn't going to perform a complete policy overhaul 8 months before a general election to satisfy the portion of the electorate that disagree, are you saying he should refuse to apologise for this? Would you congratulate him on his stance then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do you reckon you'd even be making this point AA if that Melanie Phillips hadn't done so in today's Mail? probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website Aye, but you seem to swallow anything the Mail says at face value which is why I asked. what, the same as a lot of people swallow anything the Guardian says? or the telegraph? or the sun? etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Do you reckon you'd even be making this point AA if that Melanie Phillips hadn't done so in today's Mail? probably not quite so vociferously, but i would like to believe that i would understand the deliberacy of it, in that it deflects attention away from the here and now and the very real issues which face us all, today, in this time! however, you could use that argument against anyone who posts an article from ANY paper/website Aye, but you seem to swallow anything the Mail says at face value which is why I asked. what, the same as a lot of people swallow anything the Guardian says? or the telegraph? or the sun? etc. etc. Aye, pretty much the same actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I never said it did atone for any other misdeed. all i said was i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes and not someone elses 1st. as for the 2nd paragraph, i'm fairly certain you've misunderstood my motive. IF he (Gordo) had performed miracles whilst in office i would praise the man to high heaven. however, imo, i dont believe he has come anywhere near this lofty goal. I am not a Labour supporter nor am i a Labour hater but imo, and in this particular instance, i think he is simply trying to use this very real tradegy to mask other issues that he has at home and at this present time. not for 1 minute have i ever said that the apology to these children isnt deserved because quite simply it is. personally, i believe you have an issue with the article i posted because of the writer and the paper involved. I do have an issue with the writer and the paper involved...but I only brought that up in one post. Elsewhere I've stuck to the content of this article. As prime minister he should apologise on behalf of the nation. A government voted in by living British citizens sent other citizens of it's own abroad to be used and abused as an exercise in cutting welfare costs. If you agree an apology is deserved, who should give it, if not the current PM? And where have you seen evidence of anyone whose thinking on Gordo has been changed following this apology? I've not seen one commentator fooled by this so-called 'masking' of other issues. sorry Happy but i think you're deliberatly missing my point. I've said on many previous occasions that the apology is deserved, and i agree with you that as PM Gordo is the man to make it on behalf of the nation. its just that, IMO, i believe he should apologise for his own mistakes 1st. so you admit its really just a masking exercise?? my work is done!! I think my work is done. You've gone from saying the article was "spot on" and he shouldn't apologise for this any more than he should apologise for pulling the wings off an insect when he was wee, to agreeing that an apology is entirely justified from Gordo himself. I don't see the sequence of his apologies as important, given these people have been waiting 22 years for this one. slight fudging of the dialogue there Happy. what i was asking in that instance is where do the apologies stop? i dont think i ever said the apology was unwarranted?? as to saying the apology is justified, fair enough, it is, but again, In my personal opinion, I believe he should own up to his own shortcomings/mistake, whatever you wish to call it, before he has a pop at someone else's. As Alex says. Given that he believes in the policies of his government and doesn't believe an apology is deserved for them. And given that he isn't going to perform a complete policy overhaul 8 months before a general election to satisfy the portion of the electorate that disagree, are you saying he should refuse to apologise for this? Would you congratulate him on his stance then? not quite certain what you're asking here but if i understand correctly, and you're asking me if he should apologise to these kids then the answer is yes. that is not the issue i'm trying to get across here. would i congratulate him on his stance for refusing? quite honestly i don't know. probably not. on the other hand, if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? and don't say its a different government cos its not. parties and policy change but His/Her Majesty's Government doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Imagine if they actually had a set policy for this sort of thing man, like what a Government can and can't / will and won't apologise for That would justify criticism like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Imagine if they actually had a set policy for this sort of thing man, like what a Government can and can't / will and won't apologise for That would justify criticism like. they have, it's called expediency!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 not quite certain what you're asking here but if i understand correctly, and you're asking me if he should apologise to these kids then the answer is yes. I wasn't, you'd already annswered that. would i congratulate him on his stance for refusing? quite honestly i don't know. probably not. So he can't win. No apology - he's scum. Apology - he's using a situation for political gain. on the other hand, if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? and don't say its a different government cos its not. parties and policy change but His/Her Majesty's Government doesnt. We've apologised to many people and many nations for many misdeeds carried out going back centuries. All while perpetuating further misdeeds, as any moderately powerful nation does from time to time, and will do in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Perhaps there should be a QUANGO set up to draw up a list so Brown can apologise in the right order next time. Then Phillips can moan about it not being democratic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 not quite certain what you're asking here but if i understand correctly, and you're asking me if he should apologise to these kids then the answer is yes. I wasn't, you'd already annswered that. would i congratulate him on his stance for refusing? quite honestly i don't know. probably not. So he can't win. No apology - he's scum. Apology - he's using a situation for political gain. on the other hand, if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? and don't say its a different government cos its not. parties and policy change but His/Her Majesty's Government doesnt. We've apologised to many people and many nations for many misdeeds carried out going back centuries. All while perpetuating further misdeeds, as any moderately powerful nation does from time to time, and will do in future. "So he can't win. No apology - he's scum. Apology - he's using a situation for political gain. We've apologised to many people and many nations for many misdeeds carried out going back centuries." of course he cant win. he's a politician. and i never called him scum. in fact i do believe my answer was probably and not as you would have it definitely! and you're correct. this government has apologised to many peoples and nations for its poor performance in the past and also, the present. in fact almost everyone bar the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If that's what you think it makes this question a bit odd like: if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 82 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If that's what you think it makes this question a bit odd like:if it is normal government policy NOT to apologise for its mistakes then why are we apologising for this? i think that question has been taken out of context as it was rhetorical in nature. it was a reply to the statement "it is not normal government policy to admit to its mistakes" cant remember who the quote was from. Renton i think?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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