acrossthepond 703 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Probably not many would agree with me but I would go as far as saying that given the choice of promotion or winning the League Cup or FA Cup this season I would go for winning the League Cup or FA Cup. At the end of the day winning a cup competition is better than scraping around in the lower reaches of the premier league. Thats why I would always play the strongest possible team for all cup competitions. Are you trying to be a fucking idiot or does it just come naturally? I was trying to have a reasonable debate about it, theres plenty of proper fans of newcastle and other clubs who dont see the premier league as the be all and end all - give me a cup and a day out at wembley any day. I will continue to criticise whenever a weakened team is played in any of the cups I think your above response shows who the fucking idiot is and by the look of it it comes quite naturally to you Listen, given the choice, yes, I would choose to win a cup. But we need to be realistic here. In cups, we will face top-flight opposition, and if we get far enough, almost certainly a top four team who will simply take us to pieces and it will all have been for nowt. If we focus on the league, we set ourselves a realistic task that, once achieved, will put us in a better position to make cup runs in the future. I wouldn't mind beating P'boro and advancing in the cup, of course, but only if we send out a significantly weakened side for any cup games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 "promotion is the only priority" to you, not every fan. A few have already said they would rather win the cup. All the doom mongers spent last year saying relegation would be the end of the world. It's not and from a football point of view we are going to have an enjoyable season, probably the most enjoyable since sir bobs time. Lets imagine we survived by a point last season. Firesale would still have taken place and we'd be getting arse raped week in week out. Promotion, relegation and cups are football. No success is guaranteed and as long as Ashley is in charge there will be no return to any exciting times in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 CT you're either missing the point because you're being obstinate, or you're missing the point because you're an idiot. Nobody here is saying they don't want to win the cup, nobody is saying that if we somehow scraped to the final and met a mediocre side we'd want to still field the kids. What everyone is saying is that a cup run is not the priority. Promotion is. And clearly you can see that you're in the minority to think otherwise. What everyone is saying is use the cups to blood the kids in competitive games against a variety of opponents. What everybody is saying is that if we go out of the cup against P'brough, that's disappointing but ok. If we took it seriously, played the first choice team and lost Shola and Taylor to lengthy injuries, it's totally not worth it. Would you genuinely swap a promotion bid, for a cup run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 I want both. However I see no fun getting promoted while Ashley remains. Papa seems to think had we avoided the drop Ashley would have appointed shearer and no one would have been sold! Given, nzogbia, milner.... Ashley the transfer window profit specialist! Had we stayed up I think we would have been seriously mackem style embarrassing this season. Bearing all this in mind, a really good cup run might be more favourable than promotion under Ashley. And don't forget he would still have another two windows to rape and pillage before we kicked off in the prem. Having said all that I am still hopeful of a sale next week that will put a whole new perspective on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 No fun? Who the fuck cares about fun, as long as we go up we could grind out 1-0 wins every day, iyam. It strikes me you're satisfied with life in the Championship... and that's alien to me. Newcastle United should be playing against Liverpool, not Leicester. I want to reutrn to the premiership now. If that means we miss out on a cup run, so-fucking-be it. I still don't understand your points though, you want to... what? concentrate on the cups this year? that's mental, just straight up and down bonkers. We concentrate on the league, put kids on the pitch for the cups and see how they do. If they go out, fine, who gives a shit? They stay in, it's great experience for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 No fun? Who the fuck cares about fun, as long as we go up we could grind out 1-0 wins every day, iyam. It strikes me you're satisfied with life in the Championship... and that's alien to me. Newcastle United should be playing against Liverpool, not Leicester. I want to reutrn to the premiership now. If that means we miss out on a cup run, so-fucking-be it. I still don't understand your points though, you want to... what? concentrate on the cups this year? that's mental, just straight up and down bonkers. We concentrate on the league, put kids on the pitch for the cups and see how they do. If they go out, fine, who gives a shit? They stay in, it's great experience for them. bravo! Well cherry picked and avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Promotion gives us a far bigger scope for cup runs, winning the Carling gets you a trip to Wembley and thats it. Promotion gets you up there, do well in future seasons and we may just scrape a UEFA place, a good run in Carling is fuck all when compared to a run in Europe. I want Liverpool, Man U and Arsenal with the odd trip to France, Spain and Italy. Not Scunthorpe, Blackpool and Leicester with a trip to Peterborough or Stevenage as a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Colon 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 No fun? Who the fuck cares about fun, as long as we go up we could grind out 1-0 wins every day, iyam. It strikes me you're satisfied with life in the Championship... and that's alien to me. Newcastle United should be playing against Liverpool, not Leicester. I want to reutrn to the premiership now. If that means we miss out on a cup run, so-fucking-be it. I still don't understand your points though, you want to... what? concentrate on the cups this year? that's mental, just straight up and down bonkers. We concentrate on the league, put kids on the pitch for the cups and see how they do. If they go out, fine, who gives a shit? They stay in, it's great experience for them. bravo! Well cherry picked and avoided. If we don't go up this season the few remaining half decent players we still have(Enrique, Taylor etc.) will fuck off because they will only give us one season, therefore, without a very clever manager we will recruit average players due to the reduced income and become a perma-championship club - and that is a danger which far outweighs a heroic cup run (which we will ultimately not win) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peasepud 59 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I want both. However I see no fun getting promoted while Ashley remains. Papa seems to think had we avoided the drop Ashley would have appointed shearer and no one would have been sold! Given, nzogbia, milner.... Ashley the transfer window profit specialist! And do you think his strategy will be any different in the Championship? We will make a profit in every transfer window coming under Ashley until theres nobody left to sell for anything in the way of proper money. NO big players, no big wages no massive contracts. Then we'll be put into administration, with little football debts to pay off it will all come back to fat lad. But thats a different argument altogether. You still havent answered my question earlier CT, by saying you'd rather win a cup than promotion are you saying you would have rather done that in 92/93? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 Pud, the simple answer is no I would rather have been promoted in 92/93, but you know fine well that's not only a loaded question, it's one that's easy given we know what followed. My point ( that you know fine well), is that promotion under the Ashley regime would bring no glory, no Europe, no uefa, only lots of good arse rapings every week. We couldn't compete last year and we have sold off our first team in the last 12 months. You also know that I want a good cup run and promotion and I have no doubts whatsoever we can achieve both. Enjoy your scran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Promotion's far more important, we don't have the luxury of choosing between the two with things as they are - a cup isn't going to bring the needed money or decent potential new owners to the table like Prem football does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NS Owl 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 God there are some seriously stressed people on here ! Good game to get to for you guys and I agree that it is a game for the kids. There is a great boat on the Nene to go drinking on and you should get about 3/4 k tickets. Thats what the Wednesday allocation was. Wednesday fans had to get tickets in their end as we sold out and there was bother, so heads up to be just aware incase anyone was thinking of doing the same. Enjoy and just chill. You have made a respectable start under the cirumstances and just enjoy life in the fizzy pop league. Being in the Prem is W@@k and boring IMO Up the Owls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 703 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 God there are some seriously stressed people on here ! Good game to get to for you guys and I agree that it is a game for the kids. There is a great boat on the Nene to go drinking on and you should get about 3/4 k tickets. Thats what the Wednesday allocation was. Wednesday fans had to get tickets in their end as we sold out and there was bother, so heads up to be just aware incase anyone was thinking of doing the same. Enjoy and just chill. You have made a respectable start under the cirumstances and just enjoy life in the fizzy pop league. Being in the Prem is W@@k and boring IMO Up the Owls To be blunt my Owl friend, although I have plenty of respect for your club this is the attitude of a club who has given up and accepted becoming a "fallen giant", never making promotion pushes, never in contention to return to the top flight. We cannot allow ourselves to feel this complacency. Complacency is what sent us down in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 I want both. However I see no fun getting promoted while Ashley remains. Papa seems to think had we avoided the drop Ashley would have appointed shearer and no one would have been sold! Given, nzogbia, milner.... Ashley the transfer window profit specialist! Had we stayed up I think we would have been seriously mackem style embarrassing this season. Bearing all this in mind, a really good cup run might be more favourable than promotion under Ashley. And don't forget he would still have another two windows to rape and pillage before we kicked off in the prem. Having said all that I am still hopeful of a sale next week that will put a whole new perspective on everything. Based on the very limited squad let's just say you're only allowed to prioritise either the league or the cup(s), this season which should take priority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 If his answer is anything but 'league', Fish is right and he's being deliberately obstinant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charvski 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Obviously the league is the most important. I would still like us to give it our best shot in the cups while using youngsters and players like Geremi, and Nicky Butt in these games too. There is no doubt a team like that can beat Peterborough away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NS Owl 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 God there are some seriously stressed people on here ! Good game to get to for you guys and I agree that it is a game for the kids. There is a great boat on the Nene to go drinking on and you should get about 3/4 k tickets. Thats what the Wednesday allocation was. Wednesday fans had to get tickets in their end as we sold out and there was bother, so heads up to be just aware incase anyone was thinking of doing the same. Enjoy and just chill. You have made a respectable start under the cirumstances and just enjoy life in the fizzy pop league. Being in the Prem is W@@k and boring IMO Up the Owls To be blunt my Owl friend, although I have plenty of respect for your club this is the attitude of a club who has given up and accepted becoming a "fallen giant", never making promotion pushes, never in contention to return to the top flight. We cannot allow ourselves to feel this complacency. Complacency is what sent us down in the first place. Respect my friend, however we have been on a re-building programme for ten years, not from the fact of giving up and accepting demotion, but through the fact of being ran by some w@@ker who then became the premier league chairman, then by a w@@ker called D ---- better not go that far as he may want to sue me through the courts. It is only now through a genuine fan and chairman who in Lee Strafford that we are now becoming a club and a team again. I still beileve with paper thim squads, teams need to utilise their main stream palyers for the league that will become extremely difficult through the winter months and not by performing in the league cup. Good luck for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 I want both. However I see no fun getting promoted while Ashley remains. Papa seems to think had we avoided the drop Ashley would have appointed shearer and no one would have been sold! Given, nzogbia, milner.... Ashley the transfer window profit specialist! Had we stayed up I think we would have been seriously mackem style embarrassing this season. Bearing all this in mind, a really good cup run might be more favourable than promotion under Ashley. And don't forget he would still have another two windows to rape and pillage before we kicked off in the prem. Having said all that I am still hopeful of a sale next week that will put a whole new perspective on everything. Based on the very limited squad let's just say you're only allowed to prioritise either the league or the cup(s), this season which should take priority? The league is and always will be the bread and butter. Not only do I hope we will be promoted, I think we will be promoted. But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. That wont happen. we know he will try to keep us there on the cheap with the cheapest players and cheapest management. This being a fact Do I want to have a season like sunderland where we get 5 or 6 points all season. No. To me at this moment, promotion is immaterial with ashley in charge. Sure i'll take it. The whole start of this thread was about people not seeing the wood for the trees. The here and now is what matters to me as a fan and so far it is much more fun going to the match than it has been for many a year. If we have a good cup run, great, if we get injuries and miss out on promotion tough. Its still football. Personally i think the dellusional people are the ones talking about Europe etc. Those days are gone until ownership is changed. People say more tv money if we get up.....where do you really think thats heading? We've sold the first choice team last season....does anyone think this 2nd fiddle team could survive? Is ashley suddenly going to start buying players? ofcourse not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) It was a straightforward enough question. Btw, But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. Is there? I think you just made that up tbh. The odd moron might argue that (I must have missed it), but you're suggesting that's a theme running on here? Bollocks. Edited August 30, 2009 by alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllyB 0 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 Im enjoyin seeing some spirit back in the team, sadly lacked that for a while now. a cup run would be great, promotion also great under the right circumstances or we will just yoyo, a rebuild is needed, i don't think it will happen under Ashley. At this point, im just praying we have enough players to get us through the season without further relegation. Looking forward to the game tomoro, Come on Boys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 30, 2009 Author Share Posted August 30, 2009 It was a straightforward enough question. Btw, But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. Is there? I think you just made that up tbh. The odd moron might argue that (I must have missed it), but you're suggesting that's a theme running on here? Bollocks. It was a straightforward engineered question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6145 Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 (edited) Realistically if we do get back into the premiership we're miles behind: Manchester United Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Manchester City (money talks) Tottenham Aston Villa Everton Then we have teams the likes of Fulham, Sunderland, Wigan and West Ham who are still ahead currently, but that we could realistically surpass in a few seasons if given sound investment in the first team squad (and also the management). Then there are teams like Portsmouth, Blackburn, Bolton, Stoke City, Hull City, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Burnley that I believe we could currently compete with on a relatively even level IF we were to have no major injuries. With a little investment into our side we should be able to compete with that level of teams immediately if we are promoted. Based on that I think a realistic target for us in the first two years after a promotion (IF we were to be promoted this season) would be a comfortable mid-table finish (9th-15th) in the first year, and then pushing for a top half finish in the second. I don't think that's being too optimistic, but taking into account Ashley's track record there's no way we can expect any sort of proper investment into the side whilst he is still around. ....And when I say target that is something that we should be aiming to do, not something that I am taking for granted that we would do. Edited August 30, 2009 by OzToonFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted August 30, 2009 Share Posted August 30, 2009 It was a straightforward enough question. Btw, But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. Is there? I think you just made that up tbh. The odd moron might argue that (I must have missed it), but you're suggesting that's a theme running on here? Bollocks. It was a straightforward engineered question It got to the crux of the argument, don't you think? You didn't answer it of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 It was a straightforward enough question. Btw, But there is a theme running amongst some on here that promotion will lead to us challenging for europe and re-building under ashley. Is there? I think you just made that up tbh. The odd moron might argue that (I must have missed it), but you're suggesting that's a theme running on here? Bollocks. It was a straightforward engineered question It got to the crux of the argument, don't you think? You didn't answer it of course. Did this not answer the question? The league is and always will be the bread and butter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 31, 2009 Author Share Posted August 31, 2009 Realistically if we do get back into the premiership we're miles behind: Manchester United Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal Manchester City (money talks) Tottenham Aston Villa Everton Then we have teams the likes of Fulham, Sunderland, Wigan and West Ham who are still ahead currently, but that we could realistically surpass in a few seasons if given sound investment in the first team squad (and also the management). Then there are teams like Portsmouth, Blackburn, Bolton, Stoke City, Hull City, Wolverhampton, Birmingham and Burnley that I believe we could currently compete with on a relatively even level IF we were to have no major injuries. With a little investment into our side we should be able to compete with that level of teams immediately if we are promoted. Based on that I think a realistic target for us in the first two years after a promotion (IF we were to be promoted this season) would be a comfortable mid-table finish (9th-15th) in the first year, and then pushing for a top half finish in the second. I don't think that's being too optimistic, but taking into account Ashley's track record there's no way we can expect any sort of proper investment into the side whilst he is still around. ....And when I say target that is something that we should be aiming to do, not something that I am taking for granted that we would do. The thing is, you list teams that "we can compete with" forgetting that we couldnt compete with them last year with a far superior squad. I just understand where anyone has any optimism (and im fucking optimistic) that we could survive in the prem under ashley. If someone can explain..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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