Channel Four Now

[Guest Stevie]

Here's an example of what I was talking about Stevie:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200003200017

Racism is just as prevalent there, if not more so, than in the rest of Spain.

So they're upset illegal immigrants are in there country causing problems, and well racist that like. "The young woman's killing followed the murder of two Spanish farmers, two weeks before, by another Moroccan; he, too, seemed unbalanced and has since made several attempts to commit suicide." Seems more like a tit for tat thing reminiscent of Northern Ireland when we were growing up.

 

If you look at the crowd at Sevilla games, you see loads of nationalities of all creeds and cultures right around the ground, you NEVER see that in Madrid or Bilbao or Valencia, or virtually any other big city (other than Barcelona). As I said blacks are obvious targets of racial abuse around the world, Lauren said race was never an issue in Sevilla, throughout his 20 years there.

[Guest Stevie]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

 

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

You've missed the point more badly than Liam O'Brien's penalty against Bournemouth in 1992.

[Fop 1]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Edited September 8, 2009 by Fop

[Happy Face 29]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

 

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

You've missed the point more badly than Liam O'Brien's penalty against Bournemouth in 1992.

 

Perhaps the point wasn't well made then.

[Guest Stevie]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Exactly.

 

You're like Political Statto you Fop by the way.

[Guest alex]

Here's an example of what I was talking about Stevie:

http://www.newstatesman.com/200003200017

Racism is just as prevalent there, if not more so, than in the rest of Spain.

So they're upset illegal immigrants are in there country causing problems, and well racist that like. "The young woman's killing followed the murder of two Spanish farmers, two weeks before, by another Moroccan; he, too, seemed unbalanced and has since made several attempts to commit suicide." Seems more like a tit for tat thing reminiscent of Northern Ireland when we were growing up.

 

If you look at the crowd at Sevilla games, you see loads of nationalities of all creeds and cultures right around the ground, you NEVER see that in Madrid or Bilbao or Valencia, or virtually any other big city (other than Barcelona). As I said blacks are obvious targets of racial abuse around the world, Lauren said race was never an issue in Sevilla, throughout his 20 years there.

I was just giving an example. I know Sevilla doesn't have a problem with racism like a lot of other Spanish clubs. I've just read a few things about racial tension caused by the immigration problems throughout Andalusia. Lauren's experiences don't prove a lot either way is what I'm saying.

[Park Life 70]

Didn't I see an interview with Eto'o where he said he was getting a lot of stick??

[Happy Face 29]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Exactly.

 

You're like Political Statto you Fop by the way.

 

It's factual though. Immigration is currently in decline. It follows an unprecedented increase (in a period of unprecedented growth).

 

More or Less (the radio 4 statistics show) have done some interesting looks at the birth rate myths around Europe.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more...ess/8189434.stm

[Holden McGroin 4817]

This thread has descended sharply.

 

I agree with Stevie on a lot of points (not all though) especially how we are too soft sometimes, especially the Abu Hamza case.

 

I think Bush HAD to seek retribution. Imagine if he just did nothing? However his actions may have been misguided thereafter.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Holden McGroin

[Fop 1]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Exactly.

 

You're like Political Statto you Fop by the way.

 

It's factual though. Immigration is currently in decline. It follows an unprecedented increase (in a period of unprecedented growth).

 

More or Less (the radio 4 statistics show) have done some interesting looks at the birth rate myths around Europe.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more...ess/8189434.stm

 

 

That's has been the establishments bunker of last resort for years now, that no one can be 100% sure of 100% of all figures so there for clearly nothing matters and nothing can be wrong.

 

Of course in reality that is just as much bollocks as what you posted before.

 

 

Not to mention that what you are posting is a strawman as it is based upon a 3rd parties iffy massaging of the official figures, where as what is mentioned above are the official figures.

[Happy Face 29]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Exactly.

 

You're like Political Statto you Fop by the way.

 

It's factual though. Immigration is currently in decline. It follows an unprecedented increase (in a period of unprecedented growth).

 

More or Less (the radio 4 statistics show) have done some interesting looks at the birth rate myths around Europe.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more...ess/8189434.stm

 

 

That's has been the establishments bunker of last resort for years now, that no one can be 100% sure of 100% of all figures so there for clearly nothing matters and nothing can be wrong.

 

Of course in reality that is just as much bollocks as what you posted before.

 

 

Not to mention that what you are posting is a strawman as it is based upon a 3rd parties iffy massaging of the official figures, where as what is mentioned above are the official figures.

 

I'm the one saying the figures are correct.....you're saying they paint a false picture.

 

But I wasn't commenting on birth rates or marriages or any of those factors that add non-nationals to the population. I was commenting on Stevie's assertion that immigration policy is to bring in unskilled benefit seekers. It's clearly not.

 

That might end up being an indirect result of skilled worker immigration, or asylum seekeing. But the policy is not to let someone in because the benefits here are better.

 

EDIT: The link was to an interesting but not directly linked story I heard on a podcast weeks ago about the sort of stats the BNP quote, without knowing the source. Not intended as a contrary position to your points.

Edited September 8, 2009 by Happy Face

[Anth 54]

Threads like this are the reason why I love this forum!

[Tom 13811]

Threads like this are the reason why I love this forum!

 

Racist!1!1one

[DanTheMan 0]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

 

The interesting thing in Bob Woodwards book about the 100 days after 9/11, is how immediate the drum started getting banged for going into Iraq. Within days of 9/11 with no links whatsoever provided, Cheyney and Rumsfeld were bringing it up as a strong recommendation in daily NSC meeting.

 

What's impressive is how Bush refused to take that advice...for a while...until the CIA told him it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD.

 

Many of Bush's foreign policy advisers- especially that toad Wolfowitz- had been banging on at him to settle things with Iraq since he arrived in 2000. Bit of an agenda there!

[Park Life 70]

I remember when the first rumblings were being made about them invading Iraq and in my naivety I thought 'surely not' since it was obvious then there was no link with 9/11 (which I think if you remember back was the initial 'reason' before the WMD bollocks). Little did I know Blair would fall over himself to help them and get us into it too.

 

The interesting thing in Bob Woodwards book about the 100 days after 9/11, is how immediate the drum started getting banged for going into Iraq. Within days of 9/11 with no links whatsoever provided, Cheyney and Rumsfeld were bringing it up as a strong recommendation in daily NSC meeting.

 

What's impressive is how Bush refused to take that advice...for a while...until the CIA told him it was a "slam dunk" that Iraq had WMD.

 

Many of Bush's foreign policy advisers- especially that toad Wolfowitz- had been banging on at him to settle things with Iraq since he arrived in 2000. Bit of an agenda there!

 

Quite.

 

9/11 was just a convenient excuse and nobody asked the real questions as to why??

[bawan 0]

It just shows to me what a weak country we've become when our own people are questioning the merits of a really big event in the context of this country never mind America, and it's not a lone view.

 

150,000 people dying in Iraq, and how many were directly at the hands of British/Yank forces? I bet at least half were the result of insurgents and sectarianism, but we opened the can of worms and we should accept some responsibility even if truthfully we went in there with the best of intentions. It's irrelevant that to be fair to this thread. Maybe we were sold a lie to go in there, but there were at least some positives to come out of it, and for me we were bigger cunts for not doing anything in Rwanda 15 years ago, than going in to Iraq. It's just certain peoples in this world have greater influence, greater significance, greater attacking force, and greater propaganda skills, and a greater will to cause mass damage. Human beings are human beings, we had the power to do something in Rwanda, the yanks certainly do, the Russians and the chinks do and we did fuck all, because no one give a fuck, people might say it's because there's nothing of value there, but we owe a greater debt to those people and the ones in Cambodia than we ever will to any fuckin muslim.

You had me, until the last 6 words

+1

Well I've rephrased it. It seems to me because of how weak a country we are, we question ourselves too much, we are too fair, the Abu Hamza thing summed the UK up. We are always the cunts - the army, the country, and your more partizan muslim are the freedom fighters who we have to walk over broken egg shells to avoid upsetting. The muslim global community have a voice, they have arms and they don't play by Queensberry rules very often, I think even if we had've stayed in Palestine for 50 years instead of just fucking off after the war, and peace prevailed there, there'd always be some fucking issue somewhere.

 

Like I say not helping those Tsutsi's is the biggest mistake rich western countries will ever have to bare. When you see footage of some of the 1.5m skulls scattered around, we had the means and did fuck all. However, to me since our cuntish ways in the 18th and 19th century, since then we've done more good for the world than anyone.

You haven't though, and your just failing to see it. I don't wanna go too far into it but most countries would see the USA and UK as the two main countries responsible for the innocent killings that are still going on in "the war against terror."

Where is the good in that Stevie lad?

I've got nothing against you Bawan I think you come across as a canny lad, but you've lived here the majority of your life and you still don't feel affiliated to this country which welcomed you with open arms when you needed it. It's not a dig at you but that sums some of the problems in this country up to be honest, and I don't think it's necessarily your fault.

 

As for the war on terror, read up for my take on the UK's involvement, I think we went to Iraq with the best of intentions, but to let that totally over shadow the good we've done in the world is completely wrong.

 

We stood up to Hitler on our own, fought him broadly speaking alone for 2 years, when we knew for a fact we'd get battered eventually if some cunt else didn't join in. I was reading some trashy paper the other day, someone else bought it not me and it had extracts from Winston Churchill in June, July and August of 1939 saying basically, Hitler was a racist kraut cunt who could and would bring mankind to its' knees if he started his war push. In his speeches he mentions colour and creed with a strong hint of the battle being of one to do something that is right against something that is wrong, and Hitler's was to dominate the world, and ethnically cleanse mankind. You could argue that didn't become apparent till later but I don't think so. The beauty about this country is the krauts in the years leading up to the war were completely and utterly obsessed with the idea of having Britain as a firm ally. The nazi's completely and utterly respected Britain, Hitler was even fuckin shaggin some bint from Croydon believe it or not pre-war, but we said do one you total kraut cunts. Now you imagine if we'd have said yes, we'll join your force to rule the world. Russia, America, China, none of them could've stopped Britain and Germany from completely taking over the world. We had the greatest empire, they had the greatest most frenzied will and equipped force, it would've been a doddle, but we said fuck off you nobheads, start on any cunt and you'll have to have a row with us pick on some cunt your own size. No one else wanted a row they were all to scared but we stood up to them for our own interests, our own beliefs and for the good of human race.

 

So don't sit there and say this country hasn't done more than most for the good of mankind. We had a lot to lose and we were 6/1 outsiders at the time, we fought bravely with our eyes open at the size of the task on our own doing what we could, and as much as they're cunts we owe a lot to Russia, it's a shame relations are so frosty. The French declared war on them too, but the French declaring war on Germany is like Peter Crouch asking Mohammed Ali on.

 

That to me is the greatest act of war, any country has been involved with in the history of mankind. I can remember what an openly racist country this was in the 1980's when I was a little lad, so god knows how bad it was in the 30's and 40's, yet despite that we stood a lone figure against (at the time) the most dangerous fighting force mankind has ever known for the good of cultures who could've been eradicated around the world, and some almost were, I'm sure some total cunts wished they were and we both know what sort of people I'm talking about. It was like Rocky v Ivan Drago, eventually we had Pauli (the yanks) and Micky (the Russians) jumping in to the ring too and when we sorted it out, but we stood largely alone fighting them in the air and winning the Battle of Britain with fewer men and inferior planes for a long time. The yanks sat at home making the gloves for us, and charging us through the nose the total cunts (a debt that took us decades to pay off), till it suited their interests, and it wasn't for the good of mankind, but their own "retribution" and fears.

I have never said I hate the UK and what it stands for, I am citizen here and always will be, but I wasn't born here. No matter were you are and what you do if someone asks you were your from, your always gonna say your country of birth, hence the reason I said YOU and not us or we.

Edited September 8, 2009 by bawan

[Guest alex]

Britain and Germany could have defeated America and Russia? Is that out of a BNP pamphlet btw?

[foreverer 0]

Didn't I see an interview with Eto'o where he said he was getting a lot of stick??

I remember Eto'o said that he had been racially abused in every ground expect Athletic Bilbao's.

[Fop 1]

People in this country, many of them are fucked off with the immigration policy of unskilled people coming here, or just coming here because they get greater benefits. It doesn't mean that resentment is bourne out of racism, it's not even difficult for someone like you to understand that.

Immigration numbers are lowering these days...because there are less job opportunities.

 

Doesn't really tally with your theory of unskilled benefit seekers being invited into the country as a matter of policy.

 

In times of boom when demand for workers exceeds supply, immigration (and resentment among the benefit class) will grow, during a slump such as we have now, they'll drop.

 

 

That's a rather false spin on the issue.

 

Eastern European immigrant rates are slowing (with more returning home), but the massive levels of the last few years were unprecedented. Immigration from outside the new EU countries (which is still 86% of all UK immigration - ie new EU country immigration was ~25%) is still pretty buoyant.

 

And births to non-British born mothers are still one of the largest single factors in population growth (although all birth rates have increased in the last 18 months).

 

 

No matter what we're still about 30 million (and rising) over the UK's optimum population though (never mind how many were over the worlds optimum population).

Exactly.

 

You're like Political Statto you Fop by the way.

 

It's factual though. Immigration is currently in decline. It follows an unprecedented increase (in a period of unprecedented growth).

 

More or Less (the radio 4 statistics show) have done some interesting looks at the birth rate myths around Europe.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/more...ess/8189434.stm

 

 

That's has been the establishments bunker of last resort for years now, that no one can be 100% sure of 100% of all figures so there for clearly nothing matters and nothing can be wrong.

 

Of course in reality that is just as much bollocks as what you posted before.

 

 

Not to mention that what you are posting is a strawman as it is based upon a 3rd parties iffy massaging of the official figures, where as what is mentioned above are the official figures.

 

I'm the one saying the figures are correct.....you're saying they paint a false picture.

 

But I wasn't commenting on birth rates or marriages or any of those factors that add non-nationals to the population. I was commenting on Stevie's assertion that immigration policy is to bring in unskilled benefit seekers. It's clearly not.

 

That might end up being an indirect result of skilled worker immigration, or asylum seekeing. But the policy is not to let someone in because the benefits here are better.

 

EDIT: The link was to an interesting but not directly linked story I heard on a podcast weeks ago about the sort of stats the BNP quote, without knowing the source. Not intended as a contrary position to your points.

 

 

But you're still posting no matter the reason.

[Happy Face 29]

still posting

 

Like I said, not posting anything contrary to you here.

[Guest Stevie]

Britain and Germany could have defeated America and Russia? Is that out of a BNP pamphlet btw?

One of your most pathetic posts yet. The cold largely beat the krauts on the Eastern front as much as the bravery of the Russians. If Germany and Britain attacked Russia at the beginning of the summer they'd have had the union jacks flying over the Kremlin, by the time Wimbledon started.

 

As for America it was so weak, poorly armed and unprepared for war in 1939, and 41 when Pearl Harbour get done, it's accepted that if the Japs had've had a land invasion, they could've got as far as Chicago with meagre resistance. The UK aside from what we had, had an entire global empire to manipulate, it's astonishingly naive to think the krauts and us as a hypothetical force could not have taken these countries.

[Fop 1]

still posting

 

Like I said, not posting anything contrary to you here.

 

Oooooooh yes you are....

[Happy Face 29]

There's only one way to find out.

 

TOONTASTIC RISK TOURNAMENT!

[Renton 17625]

Britain and Germany could have defeated America and Russia? Is that out of a BNP pamphlet btw?

One of your most pathetic posts yet. The cold largely beat the krauts on the Eastern front as much as the bravery of the Russians. If Germany and Britain attacked Russia at the beginning of the summer they'd have had the union jacks flying over the Kremlin, by the time Wimbledon started.

 

As for America it was so weak, poorly armed and unprepared for war in 1939, and 41 when Pearl Harbour get done, it's accepted that if the Japs had've had a land invasion, they could've got as far as Chicago with meagre resistance. The UK aside from what we had, had an entire global empire to manipulate, it's astonishingly naive to think the krauts and us as a hypothetical force could not have taken these countries.

 

I'm no history expert but what lunatic accepts that? Source please.

[Renton 17625]

There's only one way to find out.

 

TOONTASTIC RISK TOURNAMENT!

 

Only if we play the old skool world domination rules (none of this card objective crap).

 

I'll Annexe South America and Australasia and have yer.