Yes we can

[Howmanheyman 26760]

Just one quick point.

 

I didn't get the e-mail!!

 

I'm a NUSC/T member.

 

I don't think the NUST's IT system likes AOL. It isn't the first time I've had problems like this with nust corrospondence.

 

It's you. They recognise trouble when they see it. You and CT are both marked men.

I'm in the same bracket as CT?

[Giraffidae 0]

Just one quick point.

 

I didn't get the e-mail!!

 

I'm a NUSC/T member.

 

I don't think the NUST's IT system likes AOL. It isn't the first time I've had problems like this with nust corrospondence.

 

I’ve had 3 copies of the email.

 

yet I haven’t signed up to anything as I am concerned about spam and online security!

[JonGoodwyn 1]

Just one quick point.

 

I didn't get the e-mail!!

 

I'm a NUSC/T member.

 

I don't think the NUST's IT system likes AOL. It isn't the first time I've had problems like this with nust corrospondence.

I got 3 on the account I originally registered for something to with NUSC and another 3 on the account that I actually joined with

[Howmanheyman 26760]

You lot got my share!

 

Democracy's fucked in this country, I tells ya!

 

Grrrrrr!

[peasepud 59]

Just one quick point.

 

I didn't get the e-mail!!

 

I'm a NUSC/T member.

 

I don't think the NUST's IT system likes AOL. It isn't the first time I've had problems like this with nust corrospondence.

I got 3 on the account I originally registered for something to with NUSC and another 3 on the account that I actually joined with

 

Im on the committee I only got two

[Kitman 2188]

Good on everyone involved in this, I think it's a brilliant idea and obviously a lot of hard work's gone into it. Will read up on the proposals when I get time.

 

You need a Harvey Milk character to make speeches on the town hall steps. "You gotta give them hope!"

[Noelie 103]

Havent got a penny to me name, but ...................

 

 

Oh you poor little bugger. Tell you what, send me your mailing address and I'll send you a penny, maybe two. Hate to think someone hasn't got a penny to their name.

[trophyshy 6432]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

[Monkeys Fist 38719]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

I'm torn tbh- I think it's got the potential to be a fantastically positive change , not just for our club, but for football in general.The prospect of it coming off in the near future leaves me excited,very excited,

The torn bit comes in because I haven't got two beans to rub together right now. The nearest I can realistically predict being able to invest anything is next summer.

I sincerely hope this works, so that I can(invest).

I have to say that I'm not in the least surprised at the negative posts- worrying about selection processes for Presidents????

lets get the club bought first ffs.

[Kitman 2188]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

 

Haven't had a chance to get my head round it yet. But I prefer to be positive about the idea. I think it's probably more of an issue getting Ashley to sell than getting the money together.

[peasepud 59]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

I'm torn tbh- I think it's got the potential to be a fantastically positive change , not just for our club, but for football in general.The prospect of it coming off in the near future leaves me excited,very excited,

The torn bit comes in because I haven't got two beans to rub together right now. The nearest I can realistically predict being able to invest anything is next summer.

I sincerely hope this works, so that I can(invest).

I have to say that I'm not in the least surprised at the negative posts- worrying about selection processes for Presidents????

lets get the club bought first ffs.

 

Exactly, I agree that the process has to be developed before we buy the club but it doesnt need to be worked out fully and notified to everyone on day 1. Some of us are working on these details now, how Presidents are voted, what happens in the meantime ie from the day we buy the club to the day the President is installed etc.

[Kitman 2188]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

I'm torn tbh- I think it's got the potential to be a fantastically positive change , not just for our club, but for football in general.The prospect of it coming off in the near future leaves me excited,very excited,

The torn bit comes in because I haven't got two beans to rub together right now. The nearest I can realistically predict being able to invest anything is next summer.

I sincerely hope this works, so that I can(invest).

I have to say that I'm not in the least surprised at the negative posts- worrying about selection processes for Presidents????

lets get the club bought first ffs.

 

Exactly, I agree that the process has to be developed before we buy the club but it doesnt need to be worked out fully and notified to everyone on day 1. Some of us are working on these details now, how Presidents are voted, what happens in the meantime ie from the day we buy the club to the day the President is installed etc.

 

When does Hitzfeld start?

[Dr Kenneth Noisewater 0]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

I'm a natural pessimist, so I'm not letting my imagination run away with me.

[ChezGiven 0]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

 

Think people are letting it sink in. It will also take a while to sort out, at present its just a statement of intent which i'm sure we all hope captures the imagination of the support.

 

On the technical side, i dont have access to one of the financial advisors where i am. Having stopped paying my UK pension at the end of 2007 (there are 12 years with two seperate pension funds from two employers), can i go down the pension route? I would need a phone number for someone i could speak to about this.

 

Out of interest: Is there a reluctance to reveal details of how the scheme works because those behind it are worried about it being public and it being copied? Are you working with the people who were banging on about this idea a few months ago?

 

I look forward to reading the outline structure and detailed plan, as there will be some who need more detail to answer their concerns. Some people may need that before they take the time to see an expert. Stuff like, are you guaranteeing a minimum return? What is the downside risk if the club, for example, went into administration? could be concerns for many.

 

Look forward to reading more.

[peasepud 59]

I'm rather surprised at the lack of debate on here about this. Here is potentially the most amazing/scariest thing to happen to the club ever and there's little comment from the majority of the regular posters.

 

Are you taking it in? Mulling it over? Think it's an impossible dream?

 

Think people are letting it sink in. It will also take a while to sort out, at present its just a statement of intent which i'm sure we all hope captures the imagination of the support.

 

On the technical side, i dont have access to one of the financial advisors where i am. Having stopped paying my UK pension at the end of 2007 (there are 12 years with two seperate pension funds from two employers), can i go down the pension route? I would need a phone number for someone i could speak to about this.

 

Out of interest: Is there a reluctance to reveal details of how the scheme works because those behind it are worried about it being public and it being copied? Are you working with the people who were banging on about this idea a few months ago?

 

I look forward to reading the outline structure and detailed plan, as there will be some who need more detail to answer their concerns. Some people may need that before they take the time to see an expert. Stuff like, are you guaranteeing a minimum return? What is the downside risk if the club, for example, went into administration? could be concerns for many.

 

Look forward to reading more.

 

Our financial advisors will be more than happy to take calls not just seeing people in person, the details of those advisors will be available shortly. From what I know though the pensions you talk about seem to be the ideal sort of thing. A pension thats currently sitting doing nothing.

 

As I said on N-O there is no reluctance to reveal further details, we've simply done as you pointed out at the top, told people the basics on day 1 and give it a day or two to sink in before moving into the more in depth stuff. Discussions are still ongoing with some of the partners and bits being ironed out, for example the question asked about payment portals, thats been raised with the solicitors handling the escrow and they are looking into ensuring thats in place.

 

If we can iron out things now before we need to release certain bits of info then we reduce some of the questions/ issues later.

 

We are working with some of those from a few months ago, with one or two noteable ommissions.

 

We're guaranteeing a return of 2% for first two years after that it would be dependable on what was happening on the pitch and how well the club was doing.

[Barney 0]

Is there any demand for a 'toontastic share'? I'd love to contribute, but couldn't afford to anywhere near the full amount.

[Scottish Mag 3]

Is there any demand for a 'toontastic share'? I'd love to contribute, but couldn't afford to anywhere near the full amount.

 

I am sure there will be interest from others so I don't see why not.

[Martin 0]

I'm getting married in 5 months and just can't afford to put in the £1500 yet. However a Toontastic share would placate my guilt till next year, when I would be more than happy to invest.

[Happy Face 29]

This has not, on the face of it, been the best 12 months for the enlightened idea that football clubs should belong to their supporters, rather than be prizes in a global tombola for millionaires. True, Barcelona, the most inspirational of member-owned clubs, won the Champions League in Rome with Unicef on their shirts, beating the Glazer family's AIG-sponsored, debt-leveraged Manchester United. But closer to home there have been sundry struggles.

 

Supporters' trusts, some of them newly formed, became the saviours of last resort for several stricken clubs around the 2002 collapse of ITV Digital, but the battle to compete financially, against clubs subsidised by wealthy backers, has seen several cede ownership back to single businessmen.

 

Notts County's supporters' trust voted by 93% in July to give away its majority stake in the world's oldest professional club to the Qadbak investment fund, whose backers have still not been identified. Stockport County, supporter-owned since 2005, overspent either side of their 2008 promotion to League One and went into administration in April. Brentford, whose trust took over a club owing around £2m in loans to the previous owner, old-school Ron Noades, did a deal with Matthew Benham, a Bees fan and professional gambler, which will see Benham invest £5m over five years then have the right to own the club outright.

 

Chesterfield and York City were also previously owned by supporters' trusts, which saved their clubs from extinction in hideous crises, but then found they lacked the wherewithal to enable the clubs to flourish, and passed them on to local businessmen.

 

Brentford aside, just one supporter-owned Football League club now remains: the defiantly cheerful Exeter City. Six years and two promotions since financial convulsions led to the club entering administration and being relegated to the Conference, and to the conviction of two former directors for fraudulent trading, the current period is close to the best the Grecians have ever had, according to the trust board member David Treharne. "There is a real feeling among our fans that as the club was nearly driven to the wall before, they are not willing to let that happen again," he affirms.

 

In the Premier League, where even a club such as Birmingham City has just been bought for £81.5m, owning the clubs has been beyond the reach of fans' mutuals; yet with eyes cast enviously on the Camp Nou, and the Bundesliga, where most clubs are more than 50% owned by fans, the idea has taken stubborn root among a corps of supporters. ShareLiverpoolfc registered nearly 10,000 members prepared to subscribe for a scheme to buy a stake of the Anfield club from the debt-laden Tom Hicks and George Gillett.

 

The Manchester United Supporters' Trust, fierce opponents of the Glazers' leveraged buyout which has saddled the club with £700m of debt, has amassed a staggering 36,500 members, committed to what MUST describes as: "The added affinity between the supporter and the club that only comes with supporter ownership."

 

The Arsenal Supporters' Trust, smaller, with 900 members, has accepted that owning the club is realistically beyond its potential, and like many trusts seeks to be a conduit for fans' views. Arsenal's trust lobbied influentially throughout their club's boardroom turmoil, for "custodianship" at Arsenal and against ownership by a single person, whether Stan Kroenke or Alisher Usmanov.

 

Supporters Direct, the initiative set up in 2000 by the government to promote fan involvement in clubs, is not trudging sheepishly to its annual conference on Friday, but pledging to learn the lessons of a difficult period. Despite recent difficulties, the organisation can point to trusts having formed at more than 150 clubs at all levels in England, Wales and Scotland, with 120,000 members in total, and £20m raised and invested across the clubs. That stands as a remarkable record of progress for an idea which, 10 years ago, was still obscure, the brainchild of Brian Lomax, founder member of a supporters' trust at Northampton Town, who steps down this year as Supporters Direct's chairman.

 

"We are not reacting to recent events at Notts County or Stockport believing they have delivered a blow to the trust idea," Dave Boyle, the organisation's chief executive, emphasises. "We believe very firmly that football clubs are community, sporting institutions, not private businesses, and that principle has gained tremendous support over the last decade."

 

It has also been backed by Uefa, which has enshrined in its strategic documents the conviction that supporter ownership is the ideal model for football clubs, and funded Supporters Direct to extend its work to fans in other countries. "Uefa recognises the growth of supporters' trusts in Great Britain as very progressive," says Gianni Infantino, Uefa's new general secretary. "It is a good model for football clubs – membership clubs which exist for their supporters – and we believe they can also help achieve the objective of financial fair play, where clubs do not make repeated losses every year."

 

That has been the difficulty in practice here for the mutual model, that whatever the money accumulated by the fundraising commitment of fans, it is swamped by the millions made available from wealthy backers, at all levels.

 

"The supporters' trust is a great model for a football club because its members are committed to the club being there for the long term, and they attract volunteers prepared to give their time for free," explains David Merritt, chairman of the Bees United supporters' trust and a Brentford director. "However, they cannot change the fundamental economics of football, in which so many clubs operate at an unsustainable level, increasing their levels of debt every year. That has to be reformed, to protect all clubs."

 

It is significant that three standard bearers of the trust "movement" which have flourished, FC United of Manchester, and AFCs Wimbledon and Telford, were started as collective endeavours by the supporters from scratch, not, like most of the league clubs, saddled with the debts of a failed previous regime.

 

Telford, previously in the Conference, were one of the few financially stricken clubs to go into liquidation, and fans set up their own to take its place. AFC Wimbledon, promoted to the Conference Premier last season, were founded at the base of football's pyramid by the vast majority of dons who refused to go to Milton Keynes with the husk of the old Wimbledon. FC United of Manchester, the do-it-yourself club formed by fans finally alienated from Old Trafford by the Glazer takeover, are regularly attracting around 2,000 supporters, huge in the UniBond Premier League.

 

"We look at what those clubs have achieved, and Exeter, and it shows what trust-owned clubs can do," Boyle says. "The last six months have reminded us how difficult it is for supporter-owned clubs financially in the Football League, so while we keep pressing for wider reforms to football, we need to consider the further help we can give to trusts, which are all run by volunteers."

 

From small beginnings, supporter involvement in clubs has struck a major chord, and been endorsed at the highest level of European football. It has just been fiendishly difficult for mutual ownership to work in professional football's mucky reality and murderous economics.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/20...uefa-david-conn

 

I respect the intentions and generosity of anyone giving it a go, but I worry for the future of our club in the hands of fans.

 

Fingers crossed the NUST can buck the trend of failing fan funded clubs.

[Scottish Mag 3]

Peter where is the money for the advertising campaign coming from? Yesterday Caulkin said that £35,000 was being spent. Who is behind this in terms of creating the marketing campaign and making decisions on the sum of money that is being spent and how its is spent?

 

Also why is it a six week campaign? Don't get me wrong I appreciate if the money being spend on billboards etc have probably been purchased on a 6 week cycle but surely because they will have finished the campaign itself does not have to have finished.

[peasepud 59]

I respect the intentions and generosity of anyone giving it a go, but I worry for the future of our club in the hands of fans.

 

Fingers crossed the NUST can buck the trend of failing fan funded clubs.

 

The difference here is that all of those other clubs were purchased at a time when they were on the brink of disaster, clubs with small scale support, in addition they were doing it all via cash investment. What we are looking at as the thing to sustain the club is this whole pension investment. Its not been tried before but as Ive said elsewhere its seen as workable by those involved in the Pensions industry.

 

 

Take Notts County out of the equation as that was a bad move on behalf of the voters, to go with big cash before finding out just who they were and what they actually had. Due Diligence works both ways tbh.

 

I met the lads from Exeter a few weeks ago at the Supporters Direct AGM, they love it, its working well and the club is being sustained without a problem, in fact its going from strength to strength.

 

I think its important to see that taking a club in huge debt and trying to run it based on supporter handouts will not work which is what a lot of those other clubs have done, having a strong structured plan in place beforehand which covers the future running costs is a different thing altogether.

[peasepud 59]

Peter where is the money for the advertising campaign coming from? Yesterday Caulkin said that £35,000 was being spent. Who is behind this in terms of creating the marketing campaign and making decisions on the sum of money that is being spent and how its is spent?

I believe that one or more of the companies involved have paid for the campaign, companies linked to it obviously get good exposure and free advertising as such.

 

Also why is it a six week campaign? Don't get me wrong I appreciate if the money being spend on billboards etc have probably been purchased on a 6 week cycle but surely because they will have finished the campaign itself does not have to have finished.

 

Six weeks is the time we've set aside to gauge how successful this will be (the first stage as such), we need to have a closing date on the campaign otherwise we'd end up in the situation of always saying "lets try another week, maybe we'll get more in then" and it would become a joke.

 

Thats the point where we say "ok we've got x millions lets give Ashley a call and start negotiating".

[peasepud 59]

Peter where is the money for the advertising campaign coming from? Yesterday Caulkin said that £35,000 was being spent. Who is behind this in terms of creating the marketing campaign and making decisions on the sum of money that is being spent and how its is spent?

 

Also why is it a six week campaign? Don't get me wrong I appreciate if the money being spend on billboards etc have probably been purchased on a 6 week cycle but surely because they will have finished the campaign itself does not have to have finished.

 

 

See this is what boils my piss. The likes of the Chronicle, Journal etc should be supporting this (save our club stuff) with free advertising.

 

Im sure NUST will have looked into this but there are First class national marketing firms, such as Robson Brown, based in Newcastle with owners who are passionate Newcastle Fans. Im sure they would help out if asked.

 

And how do you know they havent? how do you know that the Ronnie isnt running ad campaigns for this?

[Happy Face 29]

I respect the intentions and generosity of anyone giving it a go, but I worry for the future of our club in the hands of fans.

 

Fingers crossed the NUST can buck the trend of failing fan funded clubs.

 

The difference here is that all of those other clubs were purchased at a time when they were on the brink of disaster, clubs with small scale support, in addition they were doing it all via cash investment. What we are looking at as the thing to sustain the club is this whole pension investment. Its not been tried before but as Ive said elsewhere its seen as workable by those involved in the Pensions industry.

 

 

Take Notts County out of the equation as that was a bad move on behalf of the voters, to go with big cash before finding out just who they were and what they actually had. Due Diligence works both ways tbh.

 

I met the lads from Exeter a few weeks ago at the Supporters Direct AGM, they love it, its working well and the club is being sustained without a problem, in fact its going from strength to strength.

 

I think its important to see that taking a club in huge debt and trying to run it based on supporter handouts will not work which is what a lot of those other clubs have done, having a strong structured plan in place beforehand which covers the future running costs is a different thing altogether.

 

I'd love it if Newcastle could emulate Exeter (more than Stevie will love reading that sentence ).

 

Hopefully the pensions thing will make all the difference, I'm very nervous given how many of these things have fallen apart at the seams though. We may be doing things differently to the other clubs that have failed, but that just makes us the next set of guinea pigs.

 

Are Man U and Liverpool going down the pensions route with their buy out plans?

[Scottish Mag 3]

Peter where is the money for the advertising campaign coming from? Yesterday Caulkin said that £35,000 was being spent. Who is behind this in terms of creating the marketing campaign and making decisions on the sum of money that is being spent and how its is spent?

I believe that one or more of the companies involved have paid for the campaign, companies linked to it obviously get good exposure and free advertising as such.

 

Also why is it a six week campaign? Don't get me wrong I appreciate if the money being spend on billboards etc have probably been purchased on a 6 week cycle but surely because they will have finished the campaign itself does not have to have finished.

 

Six weeks is the time we've set aside to gauge how successful this will be (the first stage as such), we need to have a closing date on the campaign otherwise we'd end up in the situation of always saying "lets try another week, maybe we'll get more in then" and it would become a joke.

 

Thats the point where we say "ok we've got x millions lets give Ashley a call and start negotiating".

 

So its more of a six week deadline for interest.

 

Cheers mate.

 

Btw just a personal thing and mostly down to the fact I have to do all my work on a budget of peanuts but 35k on advertising for this when Joe Public is being asked to put his hand in his pocket is an obscene amount. Don't get me wrong I know how much gets spent on big campaign and the expense involved but I personally feel that awareness could be raised on a far smaller budget especially seeing as the majority of it is going to be within the local community.