Dr Gloom 19770 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It wasn't what you'd call a barnstorming speech but it was refreshing. He's just an honest campaigner, so unlike any other typically polished bullshit artist MP or party political leader of the last 15 years. Whatever you think of his views, more people like him in the mix on all sides has to be a good thing. You can believe he means what he says when he says it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14029 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 https://twitter.com/mrbiffo/status/648898259839262720/photo/1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think the aim is surely to project the notion that it is not about image and smoke screens created by spin, but about hard policies and being true to the British public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 An aim that is entirely misguided if you hope to win over the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5899 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 He's mint man. He just doesn't give a fuck. 50% of the reason I voted for him was his linen jacket and baker boy cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34301 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 It's the only play he's got though, isn't it. He's been in the job too long to suddenly start slicking his hair back and chopping his beard into a goatee. I fail to see how not being a fake typical politician cunt is a bad move though. And if that's how it turns out, then everybody deserves the fucking shitshow the Tories will gladly plate up for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted September 29, 2015 Author Share Posted September 29, 2015 http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/much-of-jeremy-corbyns-speech-today-was-written-for-ed-miliband-in-2011/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17705 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 So Corbyn says he wouldn't push the nuclear button. This might be true and, privately, it may be entirely reasonable, but it's fucking idiotic to say it publicly. He's lost the election on that point alone, as even before the present Trident expires he has nullified its deterrence value. He says he has a mandate for unilateral disarmament. No he doesn't, this was just one of his policies, many people I'm sure would have voted for his economic policies but not his defence and foreign policies. It's estimated North Korea already have 12 nuclear warheads and they're working on ICBM technology. There's Iran too. Who knows what the future will be like in 30 years but I'd prefer us to have a deterrence and someone at the helm who can at least bluff personally. Disappointing to see the man of the people using a script writer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It be interesting to see whether Corbyn would have a choice in pressing the button in the event of a nuclear attack. I can't imagine the armed forces leaving it up to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 'Spin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30330 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Doesn't that mean 53% can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3969 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Press the button like the option existed for Polaris without us approval ie not at fucking all. I really don't get the deterrent argument - the idea terrorists or rogue states would give a shit about trident in the context of implied US protection is ridiculous IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Agreed, it's more about international dick vanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19770 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It's entirely about being able to sit around the table with the big boys, like we're still some kind of big deal, which we are not. The British Empire is long gone, the the Cold War is over, America have our backs. There is simply no convincing argument to waste more billions on trident. Corbyn is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34301 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I totally agree. There's loads of countries not under immediate threat from anyone with zero nuclear deterrent. Just don't be a cunt to people and they'll leave you alone. Ask the Scandinavians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17705 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 It's entirely about being able to sit around the table with the big boys, like we're still some kind of big deal, which we are not. The British Empire is long gone, the the Cold War is over, America have our backs. There is simply no convincing argument to waste more billions on trident. Corbyn is spot on. What's a big boy? We've got the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world iirc. Why aren't the socialist French advocating unilateral disarmament? One thing is certain, the world constantly changes and the future is unknown. You don't know where the next nuclear threat is coming from. Is it completely impossible we could find ourselves in cold war 2 with Russia for instance? Anyway, it doesn't matter what I think, but I do think this is completely unnecessary electoral suicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26210 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I've no real problem with having a nuclear deterrent but when we're being told that nearly every department is facing cuts then it seems like an incredible amount of money to spend on what is essentially a vanity project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3969 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree it's a gift for the media/tories but as I've said if Corbyn's only success is to at least get people debating these issues instead of the mutual acceptance of the past then that'll be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17705 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I agree it's a gift for the media/tories but as I've said if Corbyn's only success is to at least get people debating these issues instead of the mutual acceptance of the past then that'll be good. Sorry, that'll mean fuck all to me if we get a full decade of Tories. The thing is, Corbyn might just about be electable on his anti-austerity policies. But combine these with a very dodgy foreign policy, then I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30330 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Sorry, that'll mean fuck all to me if we get a full decade of Tories. The thing is, Corbyn might just about be electable on his anti-austerity policies. But combine these with a very dodgy foreign policy, then I think not. Agreed. Especially given where elections are won and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3969 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Sorry, that'll mean fuck all to me if we get a full decade of Tories. The thing is, Corbyn might just about be electable on his anti-austerity policies. But combine these with a very dodgy foreign policy, then I think not.You would have had a full decade of tories either way if any of the others had been elected leader. None of them threatened the current agenda in any way, shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17705 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 (edited) You would have had a full decade of tories either way if any of the others had been elected leader. None of them threatened the cuyrrent agenda in any way, shape or form.We'll agree to disagree on that. Clearly though there's an appetite for change out there, that is anti-austerity. But we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Corbyn needs to be intelligent enough to not keep policies which will alienate him from the majority of voters and make him perfect fodder for the right wing press. Listening to you, it's like there's no hope. But the thing is, the conservatives are not a remotely popular party. Once the implications of tax credit cuts and other cut backs become apparent, they may be ripe for the taking by Labour, even without Scotland. But that's just no going to happen with Corbyn at the helm unless he compromises imo. (Have to say that I don't think he's got the necessary charisma either but that's a separate issue). Edited September 30, 2015 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 He is going to re-brand the party in exactly the way it needed to be. Voters will be able to associate the party with a clear set of values. That is how he can contribute to the next election. Labour need to start grooming the next leader who can be associated with strong values but also can be a strong international leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3969 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 We'll agree to disagree on that. Clearly though there's an appetite for change out there, that is anti-austerity. But we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Corbyn needs to be intelligent enough to not keep policies which will alienate him from the majority of voters and make him perfect fodder for the right wing press. Listening to you, it's like there's no hope. But the thing is, the conservatives are not a remotely popular party. Once the implications of tax credit cuts and other cut backs become apparent, they may be ripe for the taking by Labour, even without Scotland. But that's just no going to happen with Corbyn at the helm unless he compromises imo. (Have to say that I don't think he's got the necessary charisma either but that's a separate issue). I wouldn't say no hope. Burnham on the back of a tory eu split may have won in 2020 but I honestly do think that kind of labour government wouldn't have made any difference to most people. I agree with Chez that a realignment is what's needed with the possibility of a more media friendly successor - I remember the 80s/90s when it looked unlikely there would ever be another labour government but things changed and they can again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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