The Labour Leadership Campaign

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Not a fan of Johnson, watched him a bit on BBC parliament discussing the Gary Mckinnon case. He's unwilling to take any risks for matters of principle, his approach seems to be to keep quiet and keep the career swimming along nicely. I suppose labour are running out of competent faces though. Osbourne could be got at by a combatative shadow chancellor, we'll see what Johnson can muster.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Renton 17534]

Not a fan of Johnson, watched him a bit on BBC parliament discussing the Gary Mckinnon case. He's unwilling to take any risks for matters of principle, his approach seems to be to keep quiet and keep the career swimming along nicely. I suppose labour are running out of competent faces though. Osbourne could be got at by a combatative shadow chancellor, we'll see what Johnson can muster.

 

Some truth in that but I was thinking yesterday how weak the Conservatives are in terms of front bench talent. Wtf is Baroness Warsi doing in govenment for instance, is she only there to tick boxes? I can barely remember a more incompetent performance than hers last night on Question Time. She wouldn't shut up yet hardly uttered a word of substance once.

 

I don't think Labour need to do much at the moment but sit back and let the coalition throw itself against the rocks.

[Guest alex]

Johnson strikes me as a career politician rather than a man of principle. Never had any time for him, there's just something I find unpleasant about him.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I absolutely despise Warsi. She is a good example of a new breed of polititian who promote themselves via media work rather than displaying competence and skill in their job. She's never off QT, and turns up all over the shop spouting self-righteous smug shite in her endless quest of self-promotion.

Osbourne is also weak and this is partly why I'm disappointed with Johnson as a pick. Johnson will offer nothing creative, you may as well put a faceless civil servant in the role, though he also has some stigma surrounding him with the whole Nutt scandal and other transgressions. I don't think there is anyone in frontline politics who would have the skill to create some forward thinking stimulus measures for the economy rather than relentless swingeing cuts or just plain redundant policies, and that is very worrying for the country tbh.

I can't help the feeling that the PR focus and low pay/hatred of MPs in modern politics has resulted in a generation of well groomed but barely competent figures in parliament. I could well be wrong, it's just a hunch that I haven't substansiated.

[Guest alex]

It's funny how they almost know how weak he is as well though. He was virtually anonymous in the election campaign and, much like 'Dave', he's barely been seen since.

[manc-mag 1]

I absolutely despise Warsi. She is a good example of a new breed of polititian who promote themselves via media work rather than displaying competence and skill in their job. She's never off QT, and turns up all over the shop spouting self-righteous smug shite in her endless quest of self-promotion.

Osbourne is also weak and this is partly why I'm disappointed with Johnson as a pick. Johnson will offer nothing creative, you may as well put a faceless civil servant in the role, though he also has some stigma surrounding him with the whole Nutt scandal and other transgressions. I don't think there is anyone in frontline politics who would have the skill to create some forward thinking stimulus measures for the economy rather than relentless swingeing cuts or just plain redundant policies, and that is very worrying for the country tbh.

I can't help the feeling that the PR focus and low pay/hatred of MPs in modern politics has resulted in a generation of well groomed but barely competent figures in parliament. I could well be wrong, it's just a hunch that I haven't substansiated.

 

Promoted meteorically beyond her competence tbh. Has never come across as credible in anything she's said. Her career rise is probably one of the most overt cases of 'ticking all the right PC boxes' ever.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

I'll tell you who I have some time for, Iain Duncan Smith. He's a nice bloke and I wrote a spoof letter to him years ago saying something about how I was torn between voting for the BNP/Torys and he wrote back and compelled me to visit my local Tory mp and vote for the conservatives. He's been harping on about the benefits system recently

 

"In an interview with The Guardian, Mr Duncan Smith said: “My general view is that the benefit system is a deeply ineffective and costly way of subsidising people's lives.

"People basically get parked on this benefit and forgotten about. If you have been on this benefit for more than two years, you are likely to die on it.

“The present benefits system is so complex and unfair that no one understands it. It leads at the bottom end to one of the most regressive tax and benefit withdrawal rates that it is possible to imagine.”

He added: "If you are unemployed, and you come from a family that is unemployed, all you can see when you think about work is risk. It is a real risk because for all the efforts you make the rewards are very minimal and in some cases none at all.

"Socially, everyone says: 'You are a bloody moron – why are you doing this? You don't have to do this.' So taking responsibility is a real risk for you."

 

 

I'll give him this much, he seems an honest man. I wrote a letter to Hague and didn't get a reply and look how he turned out: sharing rooms with verile young men and raving it up. IDS has some honesty about him and he seems to be a dilligent worker.

[Renton 17534]

All very well that but the fact there are bugger all jobs in some areas and some people are unemployable seems to be missed. IDS strikes me more as anonymous than malevolent, I'll give him that.

[manc-mag 1]

All very well that but the fact there are bugger all jobs in some areas and some people are unemployable seems to be missed. IDS strikes me more as anonymous than malevolent, I'll give him that.

 

His career wasn't helped by the fact he was bald, and followed directly on from William Hague either. Regarded as practically the same person tbh.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

He showed some hutzpah at least by taking the leadership even though he was probably a little lacking. Manc-mag has hit a pertinent note with regard to the rife anti-bald prejudice in this country as well. I do find the whole 'there's no jobs' schtick a bit of a poor excuse tbh, perhaps it's true with regard to good jobs, but if you're willing to take any job (If you sign up to JSA you pledge this) then you can get work easily. It's really not difficult.

[Renton 17534]

He showed some hutzpah at least by taking the leadership even though he was probably a little lacking. Manc-mag has hit a pertinent note with regard to the rife anti-bald prejudice in this country as well. I do find the whole 'there's no jobs' schtick a bit of a poor excuse tbh, perhaps it's true with regard to good jobs, but if you're willing to take any job (If you sign up to JSA you pledge this) then you can get work easily. It's really not difficult.

 

So you are saying there are more available jobs, of any description, than there are people unemployed? I find that hard to believe tbh. I'm hearing as well that it's not uncommon to have several hundred applications for each graduate level job that becomes available.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of scroungers out there happy to live on benefits. However, I'm fairly sure most people would much rather work given a choice. IDS has some good points but at the end of the day none of it is relevant unless there is employment for people to take.

[ewerk 26118]

Clegg was on this morning speaking about N. Ireland and our over-reliance on the public sector. Once again coming out with the same boring line that we have to create more private sector jobs and get more inward investment, while not once offering any viable plans to enable us to do that.

 

The government are very good at pointing out the problems without coming up with any suitable solutions.

Edited October 8, 2010 by ewerk

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

No I didn't say that Renton, what I was implying is that if all those on JSA were genuinely willing to take any job (part-time/ menial entry level work included) then a substantial proportion of them would find work. There's plenty of shite part time jobs going and you can work a couple of them if necessary to get 30+ hours/week.

 

Regarding graduate level jobs, I'm not surprised that thousands of graduates get knocked back from better jobs because a lot of degrees these days aren't worth shit! This will only get worse as university places increase and the standard of tertiary education plunges further into the mire. You could train a monkey to get a 2:1 in a lot of the unchallenging and worthless courses that are run in unis these days. Naturally there is going to be an oversaturation of that job market becaues it's so easy to get a degree now. This doesn't represent true social mobility (ie to get to uni), just a dumbing down of the system. These students would do better to learn a trade or just get a job, and then they wouldn't be servile to debt from their early twenties and onwards.

 

I take your point about there not being enough jobs atm though and I think that is fair to say. It will no doubt get worse in the coming years. However to suggest that IDS's points are completely irrelevant is going too far imo as the welfare system is so far gone. I think reform there is necessary and most would agree.

[Renton 17534]

No I didn't say that Renton, what I was implying is that if all those on JSA were genuinely willing to take any job (part-time/ menial entry level work included) then a substantial proportion of them would find work. There's plenty of shite part time jobs going and you can work a couple of them if necessary to get 30+ hours/week.

 

Regarding graduate level jobs, I'm not surprised that thousands of graduates get knocked back from better jobs because a lot of degrees these days aren't worth shit! This will only get worse as university places increase and the standard of tertiary education plunges further into the mire. You could train a monkey to get a 2:1 in a lot of the unchallenging and worthless courses that are run in unis these days. Naturally there is going to be an oversaturation of that job market becaues it's so easy to get a degree now. This doesn't represent true social mobility (ie to get to uni), just a dumbing down of the system. These students would do better to learn a trade or just get a job, and then they wouldn't be servile to debt from their early twenties and onwards.

 

I take your point about there not being enough jobs atm though and I think that is fair to say. It will no doubt get worse in the coming years. However to suggest that IDS's points are completely irrelevant is going too far imo as the welfare system is so far gone. I think reform there is necessary and most would agree.

 

I'm with you here, especially regarding the degree situation. I regard the dumbing down of education as Labour's greatest failing, there is no sign of it reversing either. Many graduates are simply racking up more debt by enrolling in Master degrees to avoid the inevitable. I know one lad who has 2 graduate degrees and 3 masters degrees and has never worked a day in his life. Unemployable now.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I'll tell you who I have some time for, Iain Duncan Smith. He's a nice bloke and I wrote a spoof letter to him years ago saying something about how I was torn between voting for the BNP/Torys and he wrote back and compelled me to visit my local Tory mp and vote for the conservatives. He's been harping on about the benefits system recently

 

"In an interview with The Guardian, Mr Duncan Smith said: “My general view is that the benefit system is a deeply ineffective and costly way of subsidising people's lives.

"People basically get parked on this benefit and forgotten about. If you have been on this benefit for more than two years, you are likely to die on it.

“The present benefits system is so complex and unfair that no one understands it. It leads at the bottom end to one of the most regressive tax and benefit withdrawal rates that it is possible to imagine.”

He added: "If you are unemployed, and you come from a family that is unemployed, all you can see when you think about work is risk. It is a real risk because for all the efforts you make the rewards are very minimal and in some cases none at all.

"Socially, everyone says: 'You are a bloody moron – why are you doing this? You don't have to do this.' So taking responsibility is a real risk for you."

 

 

I'll give him this much, he seems an honest man. I wrote a letter to Hague and didn't get a reply and look how he turned out: sharing rooms with verile young men and raving it up. IDS has some honesty about him and he seems to be a dilligent worker.

 

Honest as they come and totally commited to eradicating poverty in Britain. He set up the "Centre for social Justice" think tank in 2004 and his work on the issue has been commended by all parties. This is a man on a mission who has no real interest in the workings of governments etc but has (wisely by Cameron) being given the chance to put his last 6 years think tank work into policy.

 

http://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/d....asp?pageRef=44

 

The changes he is making to the welfare state are totally with the aim of dragging people out of poverty. Very decent bloke and also now a very "dangerous loose cannon". If anyone in the government start to piss him about he will up and go. Already won quite a few battles with Osbourne by all accounts.

[NJS 3954]

I keep seeing a figure for vacancies of 550k (don't know how that's defined).

 

Between 2-3 million "job seekers" + another 3 or 4 "not seeking" work for other reasons suggests a shortfall.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Not a fan of Johnson, watched him a bit on BBC parliament discussing the Gary Mckinnon case. He's unwilling to take any risks for matters of principle, his approach seems to be to keep quiet and keep the career swimming along nicely. I suppose labour are running out of competent faces though. Osbourne could be got at by a combatative shadow chancellor, we'll see what Johnson can muster.

 

Some truth in that but I was thinking yesterday how weak the Conservatives are in terms of front bench talent. Wtf is Baroness Warsi doing in govenment for instance, is she only there to tick boxes? I can barely remember a more incompetent performance than hers last night on Question Time. She wouldn't shut up yet hardly uttered a word of substance once.

 

I don't think Labour need to do much at the moment but sit back and let the coalition throw itself against the rocks.

 

I dont particularly like her as she always comes across as so bloody angry but I thought she recovered well on QT after initially taking a good kicking over child benefit. About 20 minutes in she started to fight back and was getting good loud applause, as well as making her case.

 

Charles Clarke came across as pretty reasonable too virtually agreeing with a lot of what the coalition are doing.

 

Shits going to hit the fan on QT in 2 weeks. Brave Tory that appears that night.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

"I know one lad who has 2 graduate degrees and 3 masters degrees and has never worked a day in his life. Unemployable now."

 

You have got to be joking me. Is he still studying?

 

 

@ CT - I think that happens to some men post-baldness, they just think 'fuck it!' and become maverick renegade types, you don't want to mes with them. Especially when society is set up against them, they are like a cornered animal ready to fight for their lives. IDS also has plenty of experience in politics that Osbourne is lacking. I thought Osbourne was a very silly, irresponsible pick by DC, Dave has shown a knack for picking the wrong people for the wrong positions.

[Renton 17534]

Not a fan of Johnson, watched him a bit on BBC parliament discussing the Gary Mckinnon case. He's unwilling to take any risks for matters of principle, his approach seems to be to keep quiet and keep the career swimming along nicely. I suppose labour are running out of competent faces though. Osbourne could be got at by a combatative shadow chancellor, we'll see what Johnson can muster.

 

Some truth in that but I was thinking yesterday how weak the Conservatives are in terms of front bench talent. Wtf is Baroness Warsi doing in govenment for instance, is she only there to tick boxes? I can barely remember a more incompetent performance than hers last night on Question Time. She wouldn't shut up yet hardly uttered a word of substance once.

 

I don't think Labour need to do much at the moment but sit back and let the coalition throw itself against the rocks.

 

I dont particularly like her as she always comes across as so bloody angry but I thought she recovered well on QT after initially taking a good kicking over child benefit. About 20 minutes in she started to fight back and was getting good loud applause, as well as making her case.

 

Charles Clarke came across as pretty reasonable too virtually agreeing with a lot of what the coalition are doing.

 

Shits going to hit the fan on QT in 2 weeks. Brave Tory that appears that night.

 

This may sound petty but I thought my ears were going to bleed the way she was going on. Worse than scratching nails down a blackboard. Cameron would do well to keep her out of the public light.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I keep seeing a figure for vacancies of 550k (don't know how that's defined).

 

Between 2-3 million "job seekers" + another 3 or 4 "not seeking" work for other reasons suggests a shortfall.

 

I dont think theres a great deal of work out there for people to do. Hasnt been for a lot of years although Im talking about the North East not down South.

 

I had a look few various job sites recently and unless you are qualified in a particular field and have lots of experience you are left with working in a call centre selling electricity.

 

Even the sort of jobs that you would normally turn your nose up at, security guard, needed the relevant NVQ??? in security.

 

Its tough, its going to get tougher and I dont think there are any quick fixes out there.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

"I know one lad who has 2 graduate degrees and 3 masters degrees and has never worked a day in his life. Unemployable now."

 

You have got to be joking me. Is he still studying?

 

 

@ CT - I think that happens to some men post-baldness, they just think 'fuck it!' and become maverick renegade types, you don't want to mes with them. Especially when society is set up against them, they are like a cornered animal ready to fight for their lives. IDS also has plenty of experience in politics that Osbourne is lacking. I thought Osbourne was a very silly, irresponsible pick by DC, Dave has shown a knack for picking the wrong people for the wrong positions.

 

 

I dont like Osbourne. He appears like a sneaky little man with no humility. Either this or he is just horrifically nervous in fron of camera. However when you hear the main journo's like Boulton, Robinson etc talk about what they see and hear behind the scenes, he is doing very well in the role.

 

I also think Cameron has been very clever with a lot of the big appointments such as IDS sorting out Welfare and bringing in Hutton from Labour to continue his work on sorting out public sector pensions.

[Renton 17534]

"I know one lad who has 2 graduate degrees and 3 masters degrees and has never worked a day in his life. Unemployable now."

 

You have got to be joking me. Is he still studying?

 

 

@ CT - I think that happens to some men post-baldness, they just think 'fuck it!' and become maverick renegade types, you don't want to mes with them. Especially when society is set up against them, they are like a cornered animal ready to fight for their lives. IDS also has plenty of experience in politics that Osbourne is lacking. I thought Osbourne was a very silly, irresponsible pick by DC, Dave has shown a knack for picking the wrong people for the wrong positions.

 

Yes. He's doing a degree in theology next. Basically he's doing it on inherited wealth because 'he likes studying'. Perhaps he can become a vicar.

 

Gideon is without doubt a weak link in Cameron's government. Not a good thing considering its the exchequer we are talking about here. He looks like the archetypal tory that Cameron is supposed to be distancing himself from - privileged and smug with it, liable to be found with a rent boy and an apple up his arse any day soon. Awful. Could well lose them the election and certainly didn't help in the election just gone.

[Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1]

Shocking to think that Adam 'Can I have another pork sandwich?' Boulton is considered one of the main 'journalists' at the moment. At least Nick 'former leader of the young conservatives' Robsinson displays some interest in politics, Boulton is just an obese, slobbering wreck.

 

Apparantly Osbourne only got a 2:1 in modern history at Oxford, we could do with a real swot in as chancellor during these times; someone with a double first in PPE would be nice. I can't help feeling with Osbourne that Dave's just putting his mate in there, GO will be absolutely loyal to Dave to the very last.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt

[Tooj 17]

ChezGiven for chancellor like. He wouldn't be right for this government though.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

"Special Ed" as he will now forever be known needs to wrk on finding a personality and some charisma or he will be gone before the next conference.

 

Sounds like the Labour Party is about to implode into civil war...

 

Labour may be riding high in the polls, but according to Labour insider Dan Hodges in this week's New Statesman, there is growing discord within the party supposedly united after Ed Miliband's election.

 

Party members had hoped that Ed's election would have brought catharsis to the party, after a decade of Blair-Brown infighting but - according to Hodges - this has not been the case.

 

"I wish Ed Miliband hadn't run," one Labour MP told Hodges. "We should have had a straight battle between David and Ed Balls. One final reckoning. A fight to the death. Then the Blair/Brown struggle would have been resolved once and for all."

 

Miliband enjoyed the briefest of honeymoons following his lukewarm inaugural leader's speech. Senior Brownites spoke to Hodges immediately after Ed Miliband's inaugural speech calling it "a disaster" and declaring that "in two years we'll have him out and Yvette Cooper in."

 

According to another senior Brownite insider that Hodges spoke to, Ed Miliband should be - and is - worried about such a scenario.

 

"Ed Miliband's team are terrified of Ed Balls and Yvette. They think they're going to come and try and kill him. And the reason they think that is because they will," he told Hodges.

 

"There's a sense of a vacuum developing," he continued. "People are looking for leadership and direction. And at the moment, they're not getting it," according to one shadow minister.

 

Disunity and discord is once again looming over the Labour party. Or as one MP starkly put it to Hodges: "We're either on the threshold of the new politics or we're on the brink of a civil war."

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-stag...hodges-miliband