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In a twist of irony though, the KK 'dynasty' was brought to an end by consortium of greedy businessmen who were more focused on floating the club on the stock exchange, than ensuring that success by continuity occurred.

 

IMO, from a footballing POV, the club has never been the same, or successful and I think it's as a direct coincidence.

 

One of the members of that consortium? The very man who hired Graeme Souness........Frederick Shepherd esq.

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IIRC Keegan said in his biography that Fat Fred was the only one who was supporting him until the end... or something along the lines. I'll have to look it up.

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I think you're right Isegrim - I think it was Shepherd and Dougie who wanted him to stay on but their desire to float Newcastle United was greater, sadly...

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In a twist of irony though, the KK 'dynasty' was brought to an end by consortium of greedy businessmen who were more focused on floating the club on the stock exchange, than ensuring that success by continuity occurred.

 

IMO, from a footballing POV, the club has never been the same, or successful and I think it's as a direct coincidence.

 

One of the members of that consortium? The very man who hired Graeme Souness........Frederick Shepherd esq.

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IIRC Keegan said in his biography that Fat Fred was the only one who was supporting him until the end... or something along the lines. I'll have to look it up.

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I think you're right Isegrim - I think it was Shepherd and Dougie who wanted him to stay on but their desire to float Newcastle United was greater, sadly...

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Are you sure? I thought it was Hall he was miffed at? Mind, it's such a fucking circus at this club I forget who's upset who.

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In a twist of irony though, the KK 'dynasty' was brought to an end by consortium of greedy businessmen who were more focused on floating the club on the stock exchange, than ensuring that success by continuity occurred.

 

IMO, from a footballing POV, the club has never been the same, or successful and I think it's as a direct coincidence.

 

One of the members of that consortium? The very man who hired Graeme Souness........Frederick Shepherd esq.

64401[/snapback]

 

IIRC Keegan said in his biography that Fat Fred was the only one who was supporting him until the end... or something along the lines. I'll have to look it up.

64461[/snapback]

 

I think you're right Isegrim - I think it was Shepherd and Dougie who wanted him to stay on but their desire to float Newcastle United was greater, sadly...

64462[/snapback]

 

Are you sure? I thought it was Hall he was miffed at? Mind, it's such a fucking circus at this club I forget who's upset who.

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That's how I remember it as well.

 

i.e. that Keegan blamed Dougie and Fletcher.

Edited by Isegrim
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In a twist of irony though, the KK 'dynasty' was brought to an end by consortium of greedy businessmen who were more focused on floating the club on the stock exchange, than ensuring that success by continuity occurred.

 

IMO, from a footballing POV, the club has never been the same, or successful and I think it's as a direct coincidence.

 

One of the members of that consortium? The very man who hired Graeme Souness........Frederick Shepherd esq.

64401[/snapback]

 

IIRC Keegan said in his biography that Fat Fred was the only one who was supporting him until the end... or something along the lines. I'll have to look it up.

64461[/snapback]

 

I think you're right Isegrim - I think it was Shepherd and Dougie who wanted him to stay on but their desire to float Newcastle United was greater, sadly...

64462[/snapback]

 

Are you sure? I thought it was Hall he was miffed at? Mind, it's such a fucking circus at this club I forget who's upset who.

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It was the retard auditor (Mark Corbridge) who they brought in from KPMG who really pissed him off IIRC. Something along the lines of "here's a bloke with no footballing knowledge who's had no involvement in the past 5 years turnaround at the club, calling all the shots!"

 

The bloke parted company with NUFC in the summer of 1997 with a £400K pay-off.

 

Dougie offered KK a position 'upstairs'. KK politely said no...

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Keegan blamed Freddie Fletcher and 'hoped' that Hall & Shepherd would see footballing sense. Quoted from the book:

 

Even though my answer was fairly unequivocal I half hoped that Douglas Hall and Freddie Shepherd - not so much Freddie Fletcher, because he was very much involved in the float as joint chief executive - might stand up and and say: 'To hell with the float - let's get back to what we did best.' But, of course, that was fanciful and naive.

 

Douglas Hall and Freddie Shepherd accompanied me downstairs after the decision had been made and Douglas asked me if I would like to stay at the club in some capacity, a job upstairs, travelling round Europe, that sort of thing. It was the worst thing he could have said to me. I retorted that if this was the way it was going to end I wanted a clean break, especially from them. I didn't want anything to do with them any more. It is my guess that those two really regretted what had happened, but they had found themselves in a Catch-22 situation. There was nothing left to say. It was obvious that Douglas didn't want me to go and that I didn't want things to wind up in the way they did that evening. I believe we both wanted to see the season through, but you cannot regret something that had become so inevitable.
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My biggest gripe in re-appointing KK as manager is that he would leave us in the lurch once again when he thinks that things are not going well, just as he had done with us, England and Man C.

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Good point, he's a passionate and stubborn bugger KK, which is what made him a good manager when he was here. SJH went out of his way to accomodate KK even when he didn't really want to, just to keep him happy. The current board won't be as accomodating and if KK threatens to walk they're far more likely to just say 'well go then'.

Edited by sweetleftpeg
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Mind you, in saying all that, KK wanted out of NUFC regardless didn't he? He only left when he did because the fat-cats couldn't float the club with a team manager who wasn't going to commit to the club.

 

Fucking disgrace making it a PLC. Had we not, we'd never have sold Sir Les in the summer of 1997, I'm convinced of it! The worst sale in the 23 years I've followed this club IMO only challenged by the equally baffling sale of Paul Goddard to Derby in 1988 (in my eyes what cost us our 1st Division status).

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I'm fairly certain that Goddard wanted to leave the north east, which is why he was sold.

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I think you're right Snakey, but what I seem to recall was that it was fueled in the end by disillusionment of the clubs decision to sell the likes of Neil McDonald.

 

'Sarge' left pretty close to the beginning of the 88/89 season IIRC.

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In the same way that being poked with a sharp stick is "better" than having electrodes attached to your genitals?

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That made me lol in the office. Now clocked looking at the forum @ 13:40. Combined with having to remove sprayed coffee from my keyboard. :icon_lol:

 

Incidentally, I dont know how I feel about KK. I agree with a lot of HTL and Leazes sentiments but I cant help but feel we'd all expect it to be like it was in the mid 90's and we'd all be gutted if it didn't go that way.

 

Expectations would be high. Plus, it didn't work the first time (although it was bloody close) whats to say it's going to be better 2nd time around?

 

I dunno B)

Edited by maggiespaws
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I'm not sure how I feel about Keegan returning. Of course he was very successful here and we played beautiful football, and I would love to this again. But that was then - will our current squad be inspired by KK as the 1995 one was? Given the supposed calibre of our players I would hope so, but sometimes things just fail to click.

 

One major factor that makes me less enthusiastic about his return is the return of another past favourite, Nobby Solano. Everyone harked on about how he was a vital part of the team and we really missed him, so when he returned people had the same expectations, and has largely been a disappointment. Of course this doesn't mean KK will fail, but seeing how he is held in greater regard than Solano was the effect may be even worse.

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One major factor that makes me less enthusiastic about his return is the return of another past favourite, Nobby Solano. Everyone harked on about how he was a vital part of the team and we really missed him, so when he returned people had the same expectations, and has largely been a disappointment. Of course this doesn't mean KK will fail, but seeing how he is held in greater regard than Solano was the effect may be even worse.

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And just imagine what this place'd be like if we got Craig Bellamy back and the same thing happened... :icon_lol:

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One major factor that makes me less enthusiastic about his return is the return of another past favourite, Nobby Solano. Everyone harked on about how he was a vital part of the team and we really missed him, so when he returned people had the same expectations, and has largely been a disappointment. Of course this doesn't mean KK will fail, but seeing how he is held in greater regard than Solano was the effect may be even worse.

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And just imagine what this place'd be like if we got Craig Bellamy back and the same thing happened... :icon_lol:

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It would be fascinating to see how many people suddenly think he's great again should Bellamy come back. B) I think there would be a lot of people ( liars ) around making out they never said a bad word about him, anarl. But none of that is a reason to bring him back like. The reason to bring him back is because he's a top player and he'd make a massive difference to the team.

 

Owen and Bellamy up front....looks pretty sound to me and a damn sight better than any combination we can put out right now.

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In the same way I've never rejoiced at Lee Bowyer being on our payroll, I will never welcome Craig Bellamy back at the club, nor will I change the things I've said about him.

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All that means is you've been taken in by the Souness propaganda machine. Sad really. What did you think of Bellamy prior to the arrival of Souness? Did you rate him? Did you see him as the catalyst ( along with Robert ) for the progress the team made under Robson when we became a top 6 side for 3 seasons?

 

At the end of the day, the only thing Bellamy did ( 'wrong' in some people's opinion ) was to realise quite early on that Souness was a wanker........and say so. For me, there's nowt wrong with that.

 

It's a shame he wasn't tough enough to give the incompetent fool a good kicking, the papers would have made a meal of it of course, and the self righteous pricks would have slagged Bellamy off. But I'd have loved it, just loved it, and so would many others because many of us know that Bellamy was right, and we've known it all along.

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In the same way I've never rejoiced at Lee Bowyer being on our payroll, I will never welcome Craig Bellamy back at the club, nor will I change the things I've said about him.

64644[/snapback]

 

All that means is you've been taken in by the Souness propaganda machine. Sad really. What did you think of Bellamy prior to the arrival of Souness? Did you rate him? Did you see him as the catalyst ( along with Robert ) for the progress the team made under Robson when we became a top 6 side for 3 seasons?

 

At the end of the day, the only thing Bellamy did ( 'wrong' in some people's opinion ) was to realise quite early on that Souness was a wanker........and say so. For me, there's nowt wrong with that.

 

It's a shame he wasn't tough enough to give the incompetent fool a good kicking, the papers would have made a meal of it of course, and the self righteous pricks would have slagged Bellamy off. But I'd have loved it, just loved it, and so would many others because many of us know that Bellamy was right, and we've known it all along.

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We've been here before HTL but for your benefit, I'll do it again...

 

I used to berate Bellamy before Souness came here, I was in the minority but I felt that he was a disruptive little shite who did more bad than good. There was all the incidents when he was out on the town, then the chair-throwing at the airport. I can remember about the time of the Cardiff nightclub incident that I suggested it was time we cut our losses and cashed in on him - i didn't receive much support, particularly from the Welsh contingent, of which we had a few.

 

Can't remember if you were a member but this is from the days of the old toon-chat (before the temporary forum).

 

I didn't see him individually as the catalyst - I saw him as part of the team. Yes he was a fantastic asset on the pitch, but I'm no more sorry to see him go, than I was Gary Speed (who I feel overall was more influencial)

 

Lets get one thing straight. Souness and Bellamy are two different individuals and consequently two different situations. Just because I don't like Bellamy, doesn't mean that I'm a fan of Souness, or drawn in by his so-called propaganda machine.

 

Like I said, my dislike of Bellamy pre-dates September 2004.

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Bellamy was wrong to get involved in the chair incident, and the Cardiff nightclub.

 

I'm not making excuses for it when I say that Dyer has been involved a lot more unsavoury incidents than this.

 

As have other players at other clubs, Rio Ferdinand for one - who is still at manu.

 

Bellamy WAS a catalyst for the rise of the club on the field - where it matters - a proper manager would have helped him focus better. No one is perfect, we all have personality traits. The simple fact Craig is that Souness didn't kick Bellamy out because he was a "disruptive influence", he kicked him out because he crossed him personally. The presence of Dyer at the club proves that without any doubt or discussion whatsoever. Hence, Souness doesn't put the club first, he puts himself first.

 

You may have wanted Bellamy out before Souness came, thats your choice, but until we do better without him there is no justification for letting him go, especially when you weigh up the financial cost to the club that will be involved when all the dust is settled and we reach the Champions League again, if ever.

 

Is it worth it ? This is the question.

 

Bad, incompetent management all round in my view. But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

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But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

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:icon_lol:

 

B)

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?

 

bit early for you gem ?

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I was playing Leazes Mag bingo and I needed a "But some of us have always said this about Souness" comment to complete my card. HOUSE! :):):)

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Bellamy was wrong to get involved in the chair incident, and the Cardiff nightclub.

 

I'm not making excuses for it when I say that Dyer has been involved a lot more unsavoury incidents than this.

 

As have other players at other clubs, Rio Ferdinand for one - who is still at manu.

 

Bellamy WAS a catalyst for the rise of the club on the field - where it matters - a proper manager would have helped him focus better. No one is perfect, we all have personality traits. The simple fact Craig is that Souness didn't kick Bellamy out because he was a "disruptive influence", he kicked him out because he crossed him personally. The presence of Dyer at the club proves that without any doubt or discussion whatsoever. Hence, Souness doesn't put the club first, he puts himself first.

You may have wanted Bellamy out before Souness came, thats your choice, but until we do better without him there is no justification for letting him go, especially when you weigh up the financial cost to the club that will be involved when all the dust is settled and we reach the Champions League again, if ever.

 

Is it worth it ? This is the question.

 

Bad, incompetent management all round in my view. But some of us also said this about Souness when he was appointed at Newcastle, and before.

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Totally agree with you there (as i always do on the Bellamy issue)

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