Shane Ferguson tearing apart international opposition

[Christmas Tree 3997]

A nice attempt to drag the argument back to a Jonas vendetta.

 

Your lack of football knowledge is woeful I'm afraid. Anyone who seriously thinks an answer to our problems is Shola upfront with Cisses and Ba playing off him. (sounds like a Fat Sam wet dream).

 

Your childish Jonas remarks do not hide the problem we have, that Pardew is struggling to cope with.

 

Have another try at a sensible answer.

 

442 is no use with Jonas on the left.

Ba won't play 433.

 

The above is the reality. Don't waste the Internet listing FM formations either. We will most likely play most of our games with one of the above.

[The Fish 8989]

A nice attempt to drag the argument back to a Jonas vendetta.

 

Your lack of football knowledge is woeful I'm afraid. Anyone who seriously thinks an answer to our problems is Shola upfront with Cisses and Ba playing off him. (sounds like a Fat Sam wet dream).

 

Your childish Jonas remarks do not hide the problem we have, that Pardew is struggling to cope with.

 

Have another try at a sensible answer.

 

442 is no use with Jonas on the left.

Ba won't play 433.

 

The above is the reality. Don't waste the Internet listing FM formations either. We will most likely play most of our games with one of the above.

 

you cannot be this dense.

 

I'm not saying Shola up front is the answer. I am saying that it isn't a straight choice between 4-3-3 and 4-4-2. I'm saying that starting Ferguson after less than 180 minutes is ludicrous. I'm saying you've championed every left-sided player that isn't Jonas for 4 years. I'm saying your insistence that chances come from the wing play, (when as many (if not more) chances come through the middle) borders on the pathological. I'm saying it's your inability to see Jonas' contributions that leads you to over-hype whomever else can play on the left. I'm saying that you stating that 4-4-2 doesn't work with Jonas on the left, doesn't make it so. Santon over lapping and Jonas tucking in or dropping back allows us to play an attacking 4-4-2 without leaving ourselves short at the back. I'm saying plenty of sensible things.

 

What you're saying is Ferguson should start ahead of Jonas. Which means you're saying we play 4-4-2 with an extremely attacking left side with little to no protection for Santon. You're saying we should start a young, inexperienced (at any level) player who's made no league starts as of yet, instead of an Argentinian International that's been a mainstay of the team since he joined the club.

 

and you're saying all of this because you remember Ginola and Robert were good players and (in your head) that's the only way you play on the left side.

[Tooj 17]

See reply to Cleetoonfan re Ben Arfa. Lua never got a chance here.

 

You cant call my verdict on Ferguson OTT when its right. Doesnt matter if its after one hour, one game, one month or one year. Each time I saw him play I could see him possibly being the answer to the problems on the left. Last night he did exactly what I have said he could do. Get the ball, scamper down the wing and pop in a gorgeous cross.

 

You all suck on your sour grapes though

 

He had about enough of a chance as Ferguson has had when you were delivering similar praise.

 

Also it's far too early to say you're right about Ferguson, he needs to prove himself over a consistent length of time first, which I'm sure we all hope he does as it will mean we have a very good player on our hands if he's able to force his way into our starting eleven.

[StoneColdStephenIreland 74]

A nice attempt to drag the argument back to a Jonas vendetta.

 

Your lack of football knowledge is woeful I'm afraid. Anyone who seriously thinks an answer to our problems is Shola upfront with Cisses and Ba playing off him. (sounds like a Fat Sam wet dream).

 

Your childish Jonas remarks do not hide the problem we have, that Pardew is struggling to cope with.

 

Have another try at a sensible answer.

 

442 is no use with Jonas on the left.

Ba won't play 433.

 

The above is the reality. Don't waste the Internet listing FM formations either. We will most likely play most of our games with one of the above.

 

You're creating something in your head that isn't there as a way of hoisting Jonas out the team. The left side isnt the problem in a 4-4-2, it's the middle of the park, we get outnumbered there and lose the ball way too much when playing against a team who load thier midfield.

[OTF 6146]

We finished fifth with Jonas as an everpresent playing side midfielder.

 

CT is jealous of Jonas' hair. He sees Ferguson as a slight version of his pasty self. Whether or not either of them are good at football is largely irrelevant, though he'll try to convince you otherwise. The hide of him in criticising someone else's football knowledge!

[Christmas Tree 3997]

We finished fifth with Jonas as an everpresent playing side midfielder.

 

CT is jealous of Jonas' hair. He sees Ferguson as a slight version of his pasty self. Whether or not either of them are good at football is largely irrelevant, though he'll try to convince you otherwise. The hide of him in criticising someone else's football knowledge!

 

Another football know it all missing the point.

 

Last season Ba played out left of a 433 that worked well. Of course it fucked Ba's scoring and he wont play there now.

 

This leaves us with either trying 442 (which we have and hasnt worked so far) or 433 and only playing Ba or Cisse.

 

Ive acknowledged many times Jonas's work rate in the 433, but in the 442 he is a totally different animal with limited end product.

 

But Santon, Santon they cry. Having Santon is great, but we shouldnt have to rely on him doing Jonas's job in a 442 set up.

[David Kelly 1117]

I don't think Santon can do that job anyway. How often has he got down the line and put crosses in?

 

4-4-2 and 4-3-3 aren't necessarily the only options though. Certainly not only the way we played 4-3-3 last season, there are other ways of doing it, perhaps with Ben Arfa in the hole.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I don't think Santon can do that job anyway. How often has he got down the line and put crosses in?

 

4-4-2 and 4-3-3 aren't necessarily the only options though. Certainly not only the way we played 4-3-3 last season, there are other ways of doing it, perhaps with Ben Arfa in the hole.

 

Im not convinced Santon can do that particular job either but thats normally the caveat people point to for having Jonas in a 442.

 

While there may be other ways, Im trying just really concentrating on the two most likely formations Pardew will normally go with. I certainly cant see him trying the Ben Arfa hole one.

 

Given all his comments I think he is well aware of his dilemma but unsure how to address it. He wants the left side to work but doesnt want to lose Jonas's work rate. Thats understandable.

 

This is why he tried HBA there and Marveaux on the right against Everton.

 

I think Pardews preferred option would be 433 with Ba out wide. Currently we are fudging the whole thing to accommodate two players for different reasons imo.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Chronny

 

The regular debate about what Jonas Gutierrez will rumble on without me getting involved in this particular post.

 

However, when it comes to service there is plenty of room for improvement.

 

Hatem Ben Arfa has a major influence on games and can leave defenders for dead when he puts his foot down.

 

And Yohan Cabaye, after a slow start, has now weighed in with two key passes for Demba Ba through the middle against Norwich and Everton.

 

But out wide, the area which seems to be proving difficult for the Magpies, there is a clear lack of crosses coming in for the front men.

 

A look down the squad list suggests that Sylvain Marveaux should be a key player in this field.

 

However, for some reason he hasn't looked the part this season so far and hasn't made the most of his opportunity.

 

Hard working Jonas has flaws, but you can't knock his commitment, it's just his deliveries into the box we don't see enough of.

 

Gabriel Obertan is said to be itching for his chance too but he didn't take it at Maritimo and he hardly pulled up any trees on the return to his old club Man United in the cup.

 

 

 

Step forward then Shane Ferguson.

 

The talented a pacey youngster has always caught the eye in the reserves and shown he can bomb on.

 

And whenever he's played at first team level he's never let anybody down.

 

He's happy to keep it simple, get down the flank and get a cross in.

 

We've seen that in the last two games and after two solid performances he has given his manager food for thought.

 

Oh he can also finish as well as proven at international level.

 

The time seems to be now for the skilful Northern Ireland international.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[wolfy 12]

I don't think anyone would question Fergusons ability to put a cross in and he's also no slouch, yet can he do this for 90 minutes and also can he do this whilst also keeping his defensive duties intact for the duration.

 

I don't think he's ready for any solid starts on any regular basis in the Prem, yet Europa and the cups may be his forte for this season, with the odd run out in the Prem and many sub appearances.

 

If Pardew feels he's worth a gamble to start, then I would be happy with that as I like the kid. I just think Jonas is a vital cog for us, for now in keeping us more solid, which I think would be Fergusons downfall at this present time, as in 90 minutes for first team action.

 

Any player can change a game attacking wise when brought on as sub against a tiring back line.

[PaddockLad 14584]

Drivel

and why not just play HBA on the left wing instead?

 

 

edit > apart from the parts about obertan obviously as he's shite

 

Bigi was preferred to Anita when Cabaye was ruled out v Reading....and why was Tavernier brought on yestrerday in front of Anita when Taylor got injured?...fair enough, rb isnt his main posistion, but I think it was significant after Tav's good showing at OT. It would appear that giving youth a chance after decent performances is high on Pardew's selection policy list. So for me, and very possibly Pardew, he definetly starts v Bordeaux and must have a huge chance of playing at OT in the league.

Edited September 30, 2012 by PaddockLad

[wolfy 12]

i was refering to CT's Shanes the man stance more than anything else

 

Anyway. Wolfy you're wrong, playing less than 2games worth of football for the senior squad and getting a goal in an international friendly 3-3 draw against Finland means he's ready.

 

Sammy has better reserve team stats as well btw CT and has looked just as if not more capable when he's got on at senior level, nevermind the fact he isn't the build of a 12 year old

A goal in an international friendly and 2 sub appearances does not make a player ready.

 

Put Ferguson on for a full game against Man Utd and he will get destroyed unless he has someone to back him up, which won't be Jonas if it's his position Ferguson is taking and it could affect him badly. He is a very adept sub, the same as sammi is and a few other youngsters.

 

If we are struggling in that position, then fair enough but Jonas is not a player I would drop, especially against a team like Man Utd.

[RobH 0]

i was refering to CT's Shanes the man stance more than anything else

 

Anyway. Wolfy you're wrong, playing less than 2games worth of football for the senior squad and getting a goal in an international friendly 3-3 draw against Finland means he's ready.

 

Sammy has better reserve team stats as well btw CT and has looked just as if not more capable when he's got on at senior level, nevermind the fact he isn't the build of a 12 year old

Not sure what you've seen of Sammy at senior level that has been better than Ferguson in the last two games. I'd struggle to think of an element of his game that has been more impressive.

[wolfy 12]

apparently my sarcasm was lost there

Aye, my fault, I wasn't thinking hahahaha.

[PaddockLad 14584]

Well he's scored for a start (how quickly people forget) he's created quite a few chances, and played more minutes, he's quick and happy to take people on.

 

basically saying "Shanes ready" because of two crosses is about as accurate as saying sammy is ready, out of the two Ameobi should be higher up the pecking order, but frankly neither should be starting.

 

You can only piss with the dick youve got, and in the absence of a lot choice in the posistion I'd say give him a go.

 

Laurent Robert contributed very little in both build up play and defensively, but his ability to deliver a football got him in the team. Try Shane out, get him into space where he can deliver the ball and we'll see if the rest of the team can carry him, as Robert himself was carried during a lot of games. And Shane will graft his nuts off defensively anyway, which you never got from Robert.

[JawD 31]

He's put a good case for himself over the last few games. As we're playing shite Id say anyone who is stepping up should be given the nod.

[RobH 0]

Well he's scored for a start (how quickly people forget) he's created quite a few chances, and played more minutes, he's quick and happy to take people on.

 

basically saying "Shanes ready" because of two crosses is about as accurate as saying sammy is ready, out of the two Ameobi should be higher up the pecking order, but frankly neither should be starting.

I'm not saying either should start but I don't think Sammy has shown any more promise just because he happened to score a long shot against Scunthorpe of all teams. Erik Edman scored one of the best goals of the premiership era but he was dogshit. Sammy has zero assists to his name in senior football, Ferguson has two in, as you kindly pointed out, less time on the pitch. Basically I'm merely arguing that I think ferguson is more talented.

[RobH 0]

The condescending sarcasm come across poorly but I'll move on. I think my opinion partially down to the king of player I like watching, Ferguson is more comfortable on the ball and strikes a ball nicely but perhaps is less dynamic. Sammy is more about raw pace and energy but is clumsy and gangly. Hope they will both play 250 games for us in the Prem but tbh I doubt either will make it at the level we aspire to play at.

 

As you say though, we shall see.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

 

i was refering to CT's Shanes the man stance more than anything else

 

Anyway. Wolfy you're wrong, playing less than 2games worth of football for the senior squad and getting a goal in an international friendly 3-3 draw against Finland means he's ready.

 

Sammy has better reserve team stats as well btw CT and has looked just as if not more capable when he's got on at senior level, nevermind the fact he isn't the build of a 12 year old

 

Sammys certainly a decent prospect but he is another one who wants to take on several people and score a wonder goal.

 

No one else in or around the squad does what Fergie has done twice in 7 days for the first team.

 

People are over arguing simply because of my involvement ( sorry Shane )

 

Had I not banged on about him he would be getting far more praise on here, as he is elsewhere and in the media.

 

Your Anti Shaneness puts my anti jonasness to shame

[Gejon 2]

you're right, one was against manutd's second string and a RB making his senior debut and one was a handball

so if you want to go on the reserve team stat's think you'll find sammys ahead there too.

 

Sammy imo is better, but we'll see sure.

 

Handball or not it was an excellent cross, as was the one against Man Utd second string (who would probably be first team players for a number of premier league sides if they left).

[wolfy 12]

I don;t think anyone is anti Shane Ferguson. I like the lad but it's a massive risk pitching him straight in against Man Utd and he best serves as an impact sub until he gets up to full speed and acclimatises properly to the rigours of 90 minutes of football.

[Guest CabayeAye]

Your Anti Shaneness puts my anti jonasness to shame

My anti Pardewness makes it a triumverate of self hating cynicism. Feel the love!

[CleeToonFan 1]

Ants not tugging himself off over two games and he's anti Ferguson? By the way CT I don't think you're anti Jonas. Your just so pro Ferguson you plough through anything in his way.

[Dr Gloom 19814]

He's put a good case for himself over the last few games. As we're playing shite Id say anyone who is stepping up should be given the nod.

 

Agreed. This is one of the first big tests of Pardew's management. Is he willing to drop his tried and trusted players when they're off form for one of the young guns who has done little wrong when given a chance?

[sammynb 2929]

The irony, a Tory voter telling others he knows more about the left wing.