Happy Face 29 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Someone change his name to Emo Mag will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Even when I agree with you that Mike Ashley isn't the man to deliver success to the club you still have a go. asking you a serious question chum. I'll answer your nonsensical questions when you answer my relevant ones. nonsensical only to non match goers, who view the club incorrectly from a distance and don't put their cash into the club, therefore they have different priorities. Last time you asked me a stupid question, I told you to piss off. I'm not telling you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 sometimes I wonder if the club ought to have just dropped into the 3rd division under the McKeags and Seymour etc, as a selling club, like Sheff Wed have done, because it certainly seems to be how a lot of people want things to be done, rather than speculate on success and tap the fanbase, and nobody seems to have any idea of the job that was done by the previous regime. Oh, fuck off man. I'm serious. There are certain people on here, who just won't listen to anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26209 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Last time you asked me a stupid question, I told you to piss off. I'm not telling you again. Answer this question and I'll leave it at that. How long is "sustainable". What an idiot. Could we have sustained making losses and borrowing from the banks until now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 you aren't right, you are wrong. I'm the most positive person you could meet, because I understand what it takes to succeed, and how NUFC ought to behave as a football club, not behaving like a selling club and making excuses for not backing their manager. I've leave the deluded dreaming to those aren't educated enough about football to understand this, and naive enough to not see a selling club when it is staring them in the face. Wrong about what? Us moving in the right direction? Thats not an opinion anymore, its a fact. You may say that it wont last, thats fine but those two statements are independent. For now, we are moving in the right direction and the new Virgin money deal plus the purchase of Cissé suggests this will continue for at least a few more months. We will have to wait and see what happens at the end of this month. It will be much more difficult for a club with our resources (6/7th largest in the league) to achieve a top 4 finish than in previous decades, thats another fact. What you dont understand is that this current trajectory and sense of progression is only achievable within a certain framework. If the framework is to maximise income through player sales (the real financial expression of the notion of a 'selling club'), then the club would not have spent £10 on Cissé. The club could not have made the progress it has since relegation within the strategic and financial framework you believe exists. From a business perspective, its nonsense. Perhaps the fact that i've got a lot of experience in business means i was able to predict that trajectory and carefully explain why your conceived notions about the club are inconsistent with the way it operates. Most intelligent people have been able to clearly call the club's strategy for a while now, the rest of world has finally taken notice and there are a few who are still struggling to capture the finer details. You might be right in the future but that will only come about through stupidity of the ownership. That stupidity may mean some people agree that the current lot will fail but whats not up for debate is that they want to succeed. As i've pointed out before, i find the nuanced discussion of whether 6th to 8th place is the correct barometer of success as pointless for now, the facts are thats where we are and for now, where we should be. Complaining about what you think might happen does not make you right about anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldstott 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You think that Shearer was a waste of money ? Fuck me sideways. Where do i say that? The point I am making is that in order for the current board to match the tremendous ambition of the previous board they'd have to spend the equivalent of an entire year's turnover on a single player. THAT is how much football has changed, something you refuse to accept. you're knocking the signing of Shearer, aren't you ? Please tell me how many clubs are bankrolled, as well as ManU and their global appeal. Then tell me how many were bankrolled during the period 1992-2007, then tell me what exactly that has to do with NUFC sinking to the ambitions of the likes of West Brom, Blackburn, Stoke etc etc selling their best players, and operating a sell and replace policy rather than a build and improve policy ? i'm certainly not knocking the signing of Shearer, i'm just saying breaking the transfer record now isn't realistic. To break the transfer record then did not mean an entire year's turnover, now it does. I assume by bankrolled you mean 'living beyond their means', in which case now there is only really chelsea and man city. Between 92-2007 there were many, ourselves, Leeds, Blackburn, Portsmouth, Middlesbrough are the examples that spring to mind. There is a pattern there isn't there - it wasn't sustainable. To a certain extent the Halls/Shepherd broke the mould, they saw that with a relatively small outlay they could climb the league very quickly. They spent in the region of £5million to go from bottom of div 2 (as was) to the top 3 of the premier league. If you think that could happen today you are even more batshit than i thought. Please make up your mind re:Stoke by the way two pages ago they 'backed their manager'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 sometimes I wonder if the club ought to have just dropped into the 3rd division under the McKeags and Seymour etc, as a selling club, like Sheff Wed have done, because it certainly seems to be how a lot of people want things to be done, rather than speculate on success and tap the fanbase, and nobody seems to have any idea of the job that was done by the previous regime. As opposed to sitting 6th in the premier league with a playing squad that is the best we have had in years, get a grip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6796 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 wasn't the development of the stadium a structured and manageable debt, due to expire in a few years time, linked to ticket sales etc ? Don't you agree with expanding the capacity to increase revenues, is this not what a good business does ? Do you also think every club in football is in the black ? Or just NUFC under the previous regime, because they took this business decision, and therefore should not have expanded the stadium ? Surely, as HF says and I fully concur, having the 14th biggest revenues in world football means the club can live with the top clubs in the world on an operational basis, without having to sell its best players , or else where has the Carroll money gone ? Just one quick “point of order”, the Stadium debt was indeed good debt. Sadly it accounted for less than half of our total debt at the time. Additionally (it's a long time since I looked it up) but it was an interest only loan which was due to “expire” in a few years (as you say) but with that expiration the capital sum had to be repaid (in full). The loan was not "gone" in a few years (2014 I think) simply the term of the mortgage expired. (that was £37 Million-ish I believe, to be found in 2014 in full, in real readies, moolah etc etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Who won the most trophies while the Halls and Shepherd were here, us or Liverpool? I'm not scorning anything, I said if they don't achieve a top four finish they will, against what they set as their target, have failed. The yanks are sanctioning massive spending, that's their policy and they are doing it with their money Our targets for this, our second season back in the premiership, was a top ten finish. Ashley has set his stall out regarding spending and transfer policy and this has so far proved to be successful against the preseason targets that were set. Should we finish in a Europa league place, neither you or anyone else can argue that it is not progress on the last 3 or 4 years, neither can you argue our squad isn't stronger. I'm talking about progress on recent seasons not 6,7 or 8 years ago Finally, if you are going to quote me on things you think I have said please check your facts otherwise it makes you look a bit silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) you aren't right, you are wrong. I'm the most positive person you could meet, because I understand what it takes to succeed, and how NUFC ought to behave as a football club, not behaving like a selling club and making excuses for not backing their manager. I've leave the deluded dreaming to those aren't educated enough about football to understand this, and naive enough to not see a selling club when it is staring them in the face. Wrong about what? Us moving in the right direction? Thats not an opinion anymore, its a fact. You may say that it wont last, thats fine but those two statements are independent. For now, we are moving in the right direction and the new Virgin money deal plus the purchase of Cissé suggests this will continue for at least a few more months. We will have to wait and see what happens at the end of this month. It will be much more difficult for a club with our resources (6/7th largest in the league) to achieve a top 4 finish than in previous decades, thats another fact. What you dont understand is that this current trajectory and sense of progression is only achievable within a certain framework. If the framework is to maximise income through player sales (the real financial expression of the notion of a 'selling club'), then the club would not have spent £10 on Cissé. The club could not have made the progress it has since relegation within the strategic and financial framework you believe exists. From a business perspective, its nonsense. Perhaps the fact that i've got a lot of experience in business means i was able to predict that trajectory and carefully explain why your conceived notions about the club are inconsistent with the way it operates. Most intelligent people have been able to clearly call the club's strategy for a while now, the rest of world has finally taken notice and there are a few who are still struggling to capture the finer details. You might be right in the future but that will only come about through stupidity of the ownership. That stupidity may mean some people agree that the current lot will fail but whats not up for debate is that they want to succeed. As i've pointed out before, i find the nuanced discussion of whether 6th to 8th place is the correct barometer of success as pointless for now, the facts are thats where we are and for now, where we should be. Complaining about what you think might happen does not make you right about anything. I've said my piece, it goes beyond a handful of results. The seeds of decline are sown and the expectations have been lowered accordingly. You are partly right, when you say most intelligent people have been able to clearly call the club's strategy for a while now, I've been calling it for over 4 years, they are now a selling club, and will sell a player if they don't make operating profits, and will not back their managers. Sadly, numerous people, some of whom agree with you - or just disagree with me because it's me - think differently. Edited January 25, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Who won the most trophies while the Halls and Shepherd were here, us or Liverpool? I'm not scorning anything, I said if they don't achieve a top four finish they will, against what they set as their target, have failed. The yanks are sanctioning massive spending, that's their policy and they are doing it with their money Our targets for this, our second season back in the premiership, was a top ten finish. Ashley has set his stall out regarding spending and transfer policy and this has so far proved to be successful against the preseason targets that were set. Should we finish in a Europa league place, neither you or anyone else can argue that it is not progress on the last 3 or 4 years, neither can you argue our squad isn't stronger. I'm talking about progress on recent seasons not 6,7 or 8 years ago Finally, if you are going to quote me on things you think I have said please check your facts otherwise it makes you look a bit silly you said things for Liverpool could go tits up if they "only" finished 6th, yet appear to think 7th for us is roaring success [and failure for the last regime too, oddly]. Please explain the difference, then tell me when our transfer policy will produce better league positions than Liverpool's, before you knock the tranfer policy of Liverpool which has gave them great success for over 40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14029 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Someone change his name to Emo Mag will you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman02uk 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 "In business, revenue is income that a company receives from its normal business activities, usually from the sale of goods and services to customers. In many countries, such as the United Kingdom, revenue is referred to asturnover". The question remains, how much more money does he need in order NOT to sell our best players. If our revenues have fallen proportionally against our rivals, then who is the person responsible for that ? I know my comments are always good, it's a shame that people have a blind spot when the names Hall and Shepherd come into play though. come on fella, you're reading the bit you wanted to read, if you read further you would of seen this Net income is the residual income of a firm after adding total revenue and gains and subtracting all expenses and losses for the reporting period. so whilst we may have had 14th biggest revenue we were paying huge amounts of money out on servicing debts so our net income was shocking as the finacial figures for the last few years of the former board show no, not every point is a good point, stop being a tool, when you aren't harking on about "your man" and "14th biggest revenue" your points are good, but when you default back its tiresome wasn't the development of the stadium a structured and manageable debt, due to expire in a few years time, linked to ticket sales etc ? Don't you agree with expanding the capacity to increase revenues, is this not what a good business does ? Do you also think every club in football is in the black ? Or just NUFC under the previous regime, because they took this business decision, and therefore should not have expanded the stadium ? Surely, as HF says and I fully concur, having the 14th biggest revenues in world football means the club can live with the top clubs in the world on an operational basis, without having to sell its best players , or else where has the Carroll money gone ? Completely agree ref. the stadium and also concerning the balance books, but there are degrees of how much you can be in the black, I see pompey has been issued with a winding up order today, doesnt matter what your revenue is, if your debts are so massive you can't service you're repayments then you're fucked The carrol money topic is getting tiresome, you dont sell a player for 35m and then buy another player for 35m and the books balance, thats not how it works and you know this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaythesouthernmag 0 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Who won the most trophies while the Halls and Shepherd were here, us or Liverpool? I'm not scorning anything, I said if they don't achieve a top four finish they will, against what they set as their target, have failed. The yanks are sanctioning massive spending, that's their policy and they are doing it with their money Our targets for this, our second season back in the premiership, was a top ten finish. Ashley has set his stall out regarding spending and transfer policy and this has so far proved to be successful against the preseason targets that were set. Should we finish in a Europa league place, neither you or anyone else can argue that it is not progress on the last 3 or 4 years, neither can you argue our squad isn't stronger. I'm talking about progress on recent seasons not 6,7 or 8 years ago Finally, if you are going to quote me on things you think I have said please check your facts otherwise it makes you look a bit silly you said things for Liverpool could go tits up if they "only" finished 6th, yet appear to think 7th for us is roaring success [and failure for the last regime too, oddly]. Please explain the difference, then tell me when our transfer policy will produce better league positions than Liverpool's, before you knock the tranfer policy of Liverpool which has gave them great success for over 40 years. I did as that was their target after the investment they have made, spending over £100m to finish 6th or below wasn't their plan 6th or 7th for us, considering we were in the championship a couple of seasons ago is progress. Let's wait until the end of the season before debating whos policy has been the most successful, then we will have all the facts won't we Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6300 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The argument about the ground being redeveloped falls on its arse too. It had to be developed on account of the fidings of the Taylor report - whoever was in charge. clubs like Sheff Wed [outstanding example, the very place which prompted the report in the first place] have progressed on and off the pitch just like we did, didn't they ? Fact is Craig, without the Halls and Shepherd, we would have had gone the way of Sheff Wed, we were already almost there when they took over, and the Taylor report didn't force them to rebuild their stadium and club. Mike Ashley has taken over one of the top football clubs in the country, and europe, courtesy of the previous regime, and he doesn't have the ambition to fulfill it and is wasting it. Strange.... I could have sworn the kop end at Hillsborough was all seater these days. And the Leppings Lane for that matter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) When the club was a plc they had to show a profit and the shareholders pocketed the cash. I feel guilty about that now. I wish I had given it back and then we might have won something. Edited January 25, 2012 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) you aren't right, you are wrong. I'm the most positive person you could meet, because I understand what it takes to succeed, and how NUFC ought to behave as a football club, not behaving like a selling club and making excuses for not backing their manager. I've leave the deluded dreaming to those aren't educated enough about football to understand this, and naive enough to not see a selling club when it is staring them in the face. Wrong about what? Us moving in the right direction? Thats not an opinion anymore, its a fact. You may say that it wont last, thats fine but those two statements are independent. For now, we are moving in the right direction and the new Virgin money deal plus the purchase of Cissé suggests this will continue for at least a few more months. We will have to wait and see what happens at the end of this month. It will be much more difficult for a club with our resources (6/7th largest in the league) to achieve a top 4 finish than in previous decades, thats another fact. What you dont understand is that this current trajectory and sense of progression is only achievable within a certain framework. If the framework is to maximise income through player sales (the real financial expression of the notion of a 'selling club'), then the club would not have spent £10 on Cissé. The club could not have made the progress it has since relegation within the strategic and financial framework you believe exists. From a business perspective, its nonsense. Perhaps the fact that i've got a lot of experience in business means i was able to predict that trajectory and carefully explain why your conceived notions about the club are inconsistent with the way it operates. Most intelligent people have been able to clearly call the club's strategy for a while now, the rest of world has finally taken notice and there are a few who are still struggling to capture the finer details. You might be right in the future but that will only come about through stupidity of the ownership. That stupidity may mean some people agree that the current lot will fail but whats not up for debate is that they want to succeed. As i've pointed out before, i find the nuanced discussion of whether 6th to 8th place is the correct barometer of success as pointless for now, the facts are thats where we are and for now, where we should be. Complaining about what you think might happen does not make you right about anything. No credit whatsoever for CT, the man whose lead you've followed. Dunno why you have him in your gang CT. Edited January 25, 2012 by Happy Face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Im sorry but I find this all extremely dull these days When we were in the mire and none of us really new which way it would go, it was interesting. Now, regardless of silly point scoring, the progress, quality of players, feel good factor within the club and among the supporters is there for all to see. Im reminded of the shoe salesman who was sent by his boss to Africa. He rang his boss a few hours after he landed and demanded to come home because "nobody wears shoes out here". He was replaced by a new salesman who rang up the same boss a few hours after landing and said, "nobody wears shoes out here, send me as much stock as you can". If Leazes only wants to see the bad in our current situation I genuinely feel very sorry for him, but like Bill Murray Ive eventually escaped Groundhog day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Was the first guy Al Bundy? Oh Al! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14558 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Im sorry but I find this all extremely dull these days When we were in the mire and none of us really new which way it would go, it was interesting. Now, regardless of silly point scoring, the progress, quality of players, feel good factor within the club and among the supporters is there for all to see. Im reminded of the shoe salesman who was sent by his boss to Africa. He rang his boss a few hours after he landed and demanded to come home because "nobody wears shoes out here". He was replaced by a new salesman who rang up the same boss a few hours after landing and said, "nobody wears shoes out here, send me as much stock as you can". If Leazes only wants to see the bad in our current situation I genuinely feel very sorry for him, but like Bill Murray Ive eventually escaped Groundhog day. 7 days and a few hours left in january mate for that statement to look like "jumping the gun" at best. Some would say hopelessly naiive. For the record, I think the entire spine of our best starting 11 will leave in the next 12-18 months. Graham Carr will have to be some sort of magician to replace them adequately. Perhaps paying 10 mill for Demba's replacement is a good sign of better investment. Only time will tell on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I disagree. I think preemptive negativity is just completely pointless. CT is right and tbf to him he was right for awhile before most of us (me included initially) gave him any credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 3 months ago these posts contained constant reference to Liverpool backing their manager and being ambitious. Funny you don't bring them up anymore I do, and I will. Liverpools transfer policy is superior to ours, and has been for decades apart from 1992-2007 when we attempted to do it like they do. Strange that isn't it, bearing in mind it was our best period by far in the last 50 years ? Their current strategy will cripple the club and we're currently above them in the table AND they won't make CL this season which will lose KD his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6796 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) When the club was a plc they had to show a profit and the shareholders pocketed the cash. I feel guilty about that now. I wish I had given it back and then we might have won something. Sadly that's not true, we recorded loss after loss and still strangely managed to pay dividend so shareholders could "pocket", which should make you feel even worse Edited January 25, 2012 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 When the club was a plc they had to show a profit and the shareholders pocketed the cash. I feel guilty about that now. I wish I had given it back and then we might have won something. Sadly that's not true, we recorded loss after loss and still strangely managed to pay dividend so shareholders could "pocket", which should make you feel even worse I knew that really, I was just simplifying. Not sure I can feel worse what with us being a selling club and clearly and evidently still on a downward trajectory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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