The Fish 8947 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 And linking poppy burning to suicide bombers is wrong too if you ask me. If this fella has any tendency toward creating widespread carnage, then drawing attention to himself with a pathetic act like this is the worst thing he could possibly do. Terrorist cells tend to prefer a low profile I think...it allows their evil plans to go undetected. If you think this dunce is any kind of danger to us you have a low opinion of our security services. not very patriotic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 And linking poppy burning to suicide bombers is wrong too if you ask me. If this fella has any tendency toward creating widespread carnage, then drawing attention to himself with a pathetic act like this is the worst thing he could possibly do. Terrorist cells tend to prefer a low profile I think...it allows their evil plans to go undetected. If you think this dunce is any kind of danger to us you have a low opinion of our security services. the security services are professionals who do their jobs to the best of their ability. They are however, hampered to a degree by red tape, lack of resources and manpower, and having to consider too often the protests of the pc brigade and do-gooders. This bloke may be a dunce, but the point is what his actions signify, and this problem is being allowed to grow at an increasingly fast rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) "Seems to me these people accept our laws" I can guarantee you they don't, but you can extend that to almost anyone so let's leave it. It's a pretty safe bet that this man in question will belong to a certain type of immigrant who come here exclusively for money, with no intention to stay and contribute to this society or build a life here. They are fundamentally opposed to many key values that we have in England and have no desire to learn anything about our culture or language, let alone accept it. They expect the country to change to serve their beliefs and values. I can only say this with authority as in employment I have encountered and got to know several immigrants who the previous sentences would describe perfectly. They are simply here to fund a mortgage back home where they would have to do a day's work to earn the hourly rate here; in some cases these people even own slaves in their home countries. Many of this type are perfectly happy to be dishonest and duplicitous in aid of staying here until they return home and they will often break the law and terms of their immigration. I know several people like this who are happy to drive around with no license or insurance, because they are not willing to learn enough English to pass a driving theory test. The ones who have been caught have not been given appropriate punishment imo. These people are a minority however and having observed them for some time it is clear that they will never enjoy their life in this country. They literally cannot understand what is happening around them due to their lack of English skills and they will be exploited because of it. A perfect example of this would be the case of a woman who broke the terms of her immigration by getting a second job and trying to hide it with a separate bank account and so on. She spent a few thousand pounds on a lawyer who didn't specialize in immigration and didn't even bother turning up on time to her meetings. She could get away with this because the woman in question can't string together three words of English or understand anything that is being said to her. This all stems from the fact that the immigrant in this case does not accept our laws or culture and refuses to learn English, other than when she has to pass a basic literacy test to stay here. Her life is in disarray and she will end up leaving the country before too long. So in the end these people will suffer because of their own ignorance and greed: it is unpleasant to witness these people at close quarters, but hard to get too worked up about them due to their inevitable self-destruction. Edited March 12, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8947 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. We could always be better than them instead? So rather than get drawn into a petulant tit-for-tat, burning bits and pieces, we could just be better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 And linking poppy burning to suicide bombers is wrong too if you ask me. If this fella has any tendency toward creating widespread carnage, then drawing attention to himself with a pathetic act like this is the worst thing he could possibly do. Terrorist cells tend to prefer a low profile I think...it allows their evil plans to go undetected. If you think this dunce is any kind of danger to us you have a low opinion of our security services. the security services are professionals who do their jobs to the best of their ability. They are however, hampered to a degree by red tape, lack of resources and manpower, and having to consider too often the protests of the pc brigade and do-gooders. This bloke may be a dunce, but the point is what his actions signify, and this problem is being allowed to grow at an increasingly fast rate So you feel we should change our laws to adapt to people like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. We could always be better than them instead? So rather than get drawn into a petulant tit-for-tat, burning bits and pieces, we could just be better? Thats what i'm saying, we havent done that.. But people saying its a fitting punishment because it means nothing, would be a different story if we burned something sacred to them. Tbh, they are the first to accuse the English of racism or descrimination, trying to stop us flying the English flag etc when they are going to extremes like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 "Seems to me these people accept our laws" I can guarantee you they don't, but you can extend that to almost anyone so let's leave it. It's a pretty safe bet that this man in question will belong to a certain type of immigrant who come here exclusively for money, with no intention to stay and contribute to this society or build a life here. They are fundamentally opposed to many key values that we have in England and have no desire to learn anything about our culture or language, let alone accept it. They expect the country to change to serve their beliefs and values. I can only say this with authority as in employment I have encountered and got to know several immigrants who the previous sentences would describe perfectly. They are simply here to fund a mortgage back home where they would have to do a day's work to earn the hourly rate here; in some cases these people even own slaves in their home countries. Many of this type are perfectly happy to be dishonest and duplicitous in aid of staying here until they return home and they will often break the law and terms of their immigration. I know several people like this who are happy to drive around with no license or insurance, because they are not willing to learn enough English to pass a driving theory test. The ones who have been caught have not been given appropriate punishment imo. These people are a minority however and having observed them for some time it is clear that they will never enjoy their life in this country. They literally cannot understand what is happening around them due to their lack of English skills and they will be exploited because of it. A perfect example of this would be the case of a woman who broke the terms of her immigration by getting a second job and trying to hide it with a separate bank account and so on. She spent a few thousand pounds on a lawyer who didn't specialize in immigration and didn't even bother turning up on time to her meetings. She could get away with this because the woman in question can't string together three words of English or understand anything that is being said to her. This all stems from the fact that the immigrant in this case does not accept our laws or culture and refuses to learn English, other than when she has to pass a basic literacy test to stay here. Her life is in disarray and she will end up leaving the country before too long. So in the end these people will suffer because of their own ignorance and greed: it is unpleasant to witness these people at close quarters, but hard to get too worked up about them due to their inevitable self-destruction. Is Emdadur Choudhury an immigrant? His defence said he has a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8947 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. We could always be better than them instead? So rather than get drawn into a petulant tit-for-tat, burning bits and pieces, we could just be better? Thats what i'm saying, we havent done that.. But people saying its a fitting punishment because it means nothing, would be a different story if we burned something sacred to them. Tbh, they are the first to accuse the English of racism or descrimination, trying to stop us flying the English flag etc when they are going to extremes like this. When you say "they", who are you referring to? I honestly think you should stop believing whatever is written in the paper you read or whatever is said on the News Channel you watch. This knobhead burning poppies isn't the radical we need be concerned with. It's the radicals who plot and plan in silent shadows, they're the danger. Not a bellend with a lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Expected KSA to have a bit more to say I must admit. Why? It's a separate issue to the conflicts in the ME, though the same principle of anti-totalitarianism (which in part leads to my support for the toppling of certain regimes) is behind my support for the universal rights to protest and freely express yourself. This moron crossed that line with his actions and was fined accordingly. Now I have thought about it, I do find it outrageous that the likes of Geert Wilders and Mr. I-threatened-to-but-actually-didn't-burn-a-Koran were prevented from coming to this country (with the express interest of speaking freely), whilst we have this young moron and others of his ilk freely traveling here and collecting benefits in some cases. The laws on inflammatory language and blasphemy are an absolute fucking outrage in this country and I think it's a real shame that freedom of speech is not a popular idea in England currently. With the cowardice and moral confusion people get themselves into over the likes of the Danish cartoons and general criticism of Islam in particular, I don't see that changing anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I basically mean anyone who thinks this pathetic petty behaviour is acceptable, I certainly don't think this should be a main focus but when such behaviour gets a fine less then you would for not cleaning up dog mess, somethings wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Is Emdadur Choudhury an immigrant? His defence said he has a job. I don't know and I couldn't care less. I didn't know his name until you brought it up there. I was talking in general about the bad eggs amongst immigrants, as the issue seemed to have been raised in this thread and it is something I have experience of personally. This bloke doesn't deserve any attention, thus I didn't give him any. Edited March 12, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. We could always be better than them instead? So rather than get drawn into a petulant tit-for-tat, burning bits and pieces, we could just be better? Thats what i'm saying, we havent done that.. But people saying its a fitting punishment because it means nothing, would be a different story if we burned something sacred to them. Tbh, they are the first to accuse the English of racism or descrimination, trying to stop us flying the English flag etc when they are going to extremes like this. When you say "they", who are you referring to? I honestly think you should stop believing whatever is written in the paper you read or whatever is said on the News Channel you watch. This knobhead burning poppies isn't the radical we need be concerned with. It's the radicals who plot and plan in silent shadows, they're the danger. Not a bellend with a lighter. Easy for you to say, you've never kicked a ball in your life Charlotte raises a fair point where he says that burning a Koran publicly would likely be punished more severely than the poppy burner. The whole spate of PC rules we now have in place (with regard to flags, calling 'Christmas' Christmas and so on) are frankly stupid and do nothing but build resentment within English nationals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Like its already been stated, the punishment would be fitting if it was the same for one of us to burn something sacred to them. Not only is the symbolism disrespectful to our country, the amount of men who have lost their lives and the family that have lost people that have fought for our country, its completely disgraceful. We could always be better than them instead? So rather than get drawn into a petulant tit-for-tat, burning bits and pieces, we could just be better? Thats what i'm saying, we havent done that.. But people saying its a fitting punishment because it means nothing, would be a different story if we burned something sacred to them. Tbh, they are the first to accuse the English of racism or descrimination, trying to stop us flying the English flag etc when they are going to extremes like this. When you say "they", who are you referring to? I honestly think you should stop believing whatever is written in the paper you read or whatever is said on the News Channel you watch. This knobhead burning poppies isn't the radical we need be concerned with. It's the radicals who plot and plan in silent shadows, they're the danger. Not a bellend with a lighter. Easy for you to say, you've never kicked a ball in your life Charlotte raises a fair point where he says that burning a Koran publicly would likely be punished more severely than the poppy burner. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-12253315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8947 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I basically mean anyone who thinks this pathetic petty behaviour is acceptable, I certainly don't think this should be a main focus but when such behaviour gets a fine less then you would for not cleaning up dog mess, somethings wrong. And who are these people? I've never met one, all I've heard about them is in the pages of the Telegraph or the Mail or within the rants of people like Leazes. I agree that the fine is paltry, but I honestly don't think the crime merits the attention it's getting. The only people who seem to be vocal about this are those who're stating there's an epidemic of similar nonsense and the politicians who're so simpering they'll change their mind to whatever you whine loudest about people could always just grow up and treat this child with the apathy he deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Thanks for that link HF, it backs up what I was saying. Though in the incident you have cited a Koran was not burned publicly (no one else was present save the burners), we can see from the words of the Crown Prosecution Service that they treat this type of incident much more seriously than a public disorder offence such as the poppy-burner's case: "I must stress that our policy is to prosecute racist and religious crime fairly, firmly and robustly, but this can be done only in cases where there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction." The CPS said it could not identify who had recorded and posted the video online, there was no evidence threatening behaviour was used and there was no evidence anyone present was upset by what they saw. She said: "For these reasons we have decided that no-one should be prosecuted for an offence arising out of this incident, based on the evidence provided to us. "If any further evidence comes to light and is sent to us, we will look at it. If I protest outside a Mosque and burn a Koran there after Friday prayers the punishment for me would be more severe than the poppy-burner's. In the view of the CPS it would constitute a racist and religious crime, as implied in the case you cited. The punishment for such crimes is more severe than public-disorder offences. Edited March 12, 2011 by Kevin S. Assilleekunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTheBobby 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I know someone who lives very close to the Gateshead pub incident and am reliably informed that not long after its exposure a group of gentlemen travelled up en-masse from the North West in the hope of discussing the incident and there were certain altercations. Incidentally, it wasn't reported. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 That vid is very funny, I never saw that series when it was broadcast Very well acted. Cracking up here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks for that link HF, it backs up what I was saying. Though in the incident you have cited a Koran was not burned publicly (no one else was present save the burners), we can see from the words of the Crown Prosecution Service that they treat this type of incident much more seriously than a public disorder offence such as the poppy-burner's case: "I must stress that our policy is to prosecute racist and religious crime fairly, firmly and robustly, but this can be done only in cases where there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction." The CPS said it could not identify who had recorded and posted the video online, there was no evidence threatening behaviour was used and there was no evidence anyone present was upset by what they saw. She said: "For these reasons we have decided that no-one should be prosecuted for an offence arising out of this incident, based on the evidence provided to us. "If any further evidence comes to light and is sent to us, we will look at it. If I protest outside a Mosque and burn a Koran there after Friday prayers the punishment for me would be more severe than the poppy-burner's. In the view of the CPS it would constitute a racist and religious crime, as implied in the case you cited. The punishment for such crimes is more severe than public-disorder offences. Chez asked the question 3 pages back and I said there's no difference. Genuinely interested to see if you can find anything harsher than a fine for blasphemy in the last decade though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks for that link HF, it backs up what I was saying. Though in the incident you have cited a Koran was not burned publicly (no one else was present save the burners), we can see from the words of the Crown Prosecution Service that they treat this type of incident much more seriously than a public disorder offence such as the poppy-burner's case: "I must stress that our policy is to prosecute racist and religious crime fairly, firmly and robustly, but this can be done only in cases where there is sufficient evidence for a realistic prospect of conviction." The CPS said it could not identify who had recorded and posted the video online, there was no evidence threatening behaviour was used and there was no evidence anyone present was upset by what they saw. She said: "For these reasons we have decided that no-one should be prosecuted for an offence arising out of this incident, based on the evidence provided to us. "If any further evidence comes to light and is sent to us, we will look at it. If I protest outside a Mosque and burn a Koran there after Friday prayers the punishment for me would be more severe than the poppy-burner's. In the view of the CPS it would constitute a racist and religious crime, as implied in the case you cited. The punishment for such crimes is more severe than public-disorder offences. Chez asked the question 3 pages back and I said there's no difference. Genuinely interested to see if you can find anything harsher than a fine for blasphemy in the last decade though. Checked for myself as I knew you wouldn't.... Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006: Convictions Sammy Wilson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been (a) charged and ( convicted under the provisions of the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006. [16847] The Solicitor-General: I have been asked to reply. The Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006, which came into force on 1 October 2007, inserted into Part III of the Public Order Act 1986 offences relating to stirring up hatred against persons on religious grounds. Prosecutions for this offence require the consent of the Attorney-General. Since 1 October 2007 only one person has been charged with any offence of stirring up religious hatred, and that person (Anthony Bamber) was acquitted on 21 June 2010. http://services.parliament.uk/hansard/Comm...rs/part011.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 "Seems to me these people accept our laws" I can guarantee you they don't, but you can extend that to almost anyone so let's leave it. It's a pretty safe bet that this man in question will belong to a certain type of immigrant who come here exclusively for money, with no intention to stay and contribute to this society or build a life here. They are fundamentally opposed to many key values that we have in England and have no desire to learn anything about our culture or language, let alone accept it. They expect the country to change to serve their beliefs and values. I can only say this with authority as in employment I have encountered and got to know several immigrants who the previous sentences would describe perfectly. They are simply here to fund a mortgage back home where they would have to do a day's work to earn the hourly rate here; in some cases these people even own slaves in their home countries. Many of this type are perfectly happy to be dishonest and duplicitous in aid of staying here until they return home and they will often break the law and terms of their immigration. I know several people like this who are happy to drive around with no license or insurance, because they are not willing to learn enough English to pass a driving theory test. The ones who have been caught have not been given appropriate punishment imo. These people are a minority however and having observed them for some time it is clear that they will never enjoy their life in this country. They literally cannot understand what is happening around them due to their lack of English skills and they will be exploited because of it. A perfect example of this would be the case of a woman who broke the terms of her immigration by getting a second job and trying to hide it with a separate bank account and so on. She spent a few thousand pounds on a lawyer who didn't specialize in immigration and didn't even bother turning up on time to her meetings. She could get away with this because the woman in question can't string together three words of English or understand anything that is being said to her. This all stems from the fact that the immigrant in this case does not accept our laws or culture and refuses to learn English, other than when she has to pass a basic literacy test to stay here. Her life is in disarray and she will end up leaving the country before too long. So in the end these people will suffer because of their own ignorance and greed: it is unpleasant to witness these people at close quarters, but hard to get too worked up about them due to their inevitable self-destruction. Undoubtedly true but they don't haven a monopoly on that - the British did the same for centuries and to some extent emmigrants and "guest workers" in the middle east still do the same today. I think working in Muslim countries and insisting on having alcohol for example (however controlled) exhibits the same contempt for culture. To some extent it's human nature to stick to your gang/tribe when in a foreign country and I'd guess it only abates after a few generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt 0 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 End of the day LM you know fine well people find this kind of protest distasteful, but that's the price you pay for free speech. I would rather this country allowed the police to remove these sort of people before anyone had a chance to take notice. Laws to protect some kind of decorum during such events are hardly a grave imposition on free speech. Why can we never draw the line. We just let these scrotes enjoy our freedoms while their zealous bile in turn rejects them as sacreligious. The whole affair is also manna from heaven for fringe groups like the BNP (although they would probably choose a less Jewish way of phrasing that). This is not a reasonable form of protest IMO- it is disrespectful and there should be laws in place to prevent it. What is the kid who climbed the cenotaph during the protests getting charged with? Will he be done for more than £50? And if so, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 What is the kid who climbed the cenotaph during the protests getting charged with? Will he be done for more than £50? And if so, why? Charlie Gilmour. Don't think he was even charged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTheBobby 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 That vid is very funny, I never saw that series when it was broadcast Very well acted. Cracking up here Was a fantastic series In context of all this thread (*disclaimer* satire-wise) also have a look at 'mc raa' and 'mr kahn' Like say, whole series was immense - in fact I'm gonna have a look for a cheap dvd of it right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTheBobby 1 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 What is the kid who climbed the cenotaph during the protests getting charged with? Will he be done for more than £50? And if so, why? Charlie Gilmour. Don't think he was even charged Spoilt little brat claimed he was tripping at the time I seem to remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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