Renton 17575 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Oh here we are, another so-called expert on how to fight night walkers. Iirc the Dothraki broke rank didn't they? I don't think Mormont wanted them to go. Remember their character, they're not a disciplined army. I thought the charge was good, it added brilliantly to the suspense, watching the lights go off one by one. Of course the real reason it happened like it did was to save on CGI costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Renton said: Oh here we are, another so-called expert on how to fight night walkers. Iirc the Dothraki broke rank didn't they? I don't think Mormont wanted them to go. Remember their character, they're not a disciplined army. I thought the charge was good, it added brilliantly to the suspense, watching the lights go off one by one. Of course the real reason it happened like it did was to save on CGI costs. I made my first points about strategy on the previous page, but yeah It's just stupid though. Even if the view was that the Dothraki would wait, why were they front line? They need to be at speed to be effective. Based on that, they did the right thing considering the poor positioning they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38535 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Since we’re treating this like a real event, not a fantasy show, can we all please take a moment to remember those really unlucky few that perished by being crushed to death by high-speed dragon turd nuggets. Those fuckers must shit out several tons per battle, and it’s got to land somewhere, hasn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26142 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Based on that, they did the right thing considering the poor positioning they had. The defence was shocking. They resorted to aimless long balls into enemy territory when instead they should have employed some width on the flanks, let the enemy bring the game to them and attack on the counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Monkeys Fist said: Since we’re treating this like a real event, not a fantasy show, can we all please take a moment to remember those really unlucky few that perished by being crushed to death by high-speed dragon turd nuggets. Those fuckers must shit out several tons per battle, and it’s got to land somewhere, hasn’t it? Possibly, but then the dragons were inexplicably several hundred miles away when the battle was going on. Actually, on that, why didn't Jon's dragon set the trench on fire. I'm not totally sure on it, but wasn't he sat on the castle wall with it at that point? I remember wondering why it had to be hers specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, ewerk said: The defence was shocking. They resorted to aimless long balls into enemy territory when instead they should have employed some width on the flanks, let the enemy bring the game to them and attack on the counter. Damn straight. It needed to be a Chelsea vs Barcelona level of defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26142 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Possibly, but then the dragons were inexplicably several hundred miles away when the battle was going on. Eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, ewerk said: Eh? I'm exaggerating, but there was a period in the middle where they were nowhere to be seen, was there not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26142 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 They were off after icicle dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Just now, ewerk said: They were off after icicle dick. Doesn't that deviate from the plan to lure him to Bran and deal with him there though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17575 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I made my first points about strategy on the previous page, but yeah It's just stupid though. Even if the view was that the Dothraki would wait, why were they front line? They need to be at speed to be effective. Based on that, they did the right thing considering the poor positioning they had. They're cavalry. What are you going to do, turn winterfell into a stables? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26142 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Doesn't that deviate from the plan to lure him to Bran and deal with him there though? I think their primary plan was to kill him with dragon fire. Bran was only to bring him into the general vicinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17575 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Doesn't that deviate from the plan to lure him to Bran and deal with him there though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38535 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Possibly, but then the dragons were inexplicably several hundred miles away when the battle was going on. 9 minutes ago, ewerk said: Eh? 😄 When Sparkles got knocked off his ride, he landed right in the middle of the battlefield. They were directly above them most of the time. In the Shitty Death Zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rayvin said: As much as you're drawing fire for this, I agree. It ruined the immersion for me when the cavalry charge into nothingness went on because no sane commander would ever countenance such a moronic play. Done for drama I suppose. The more sensible approach maybe would have been less cinematic, and LOTR already hit peak cavalry charge. Twice. On a separate note, the Guardian seems to think that there is a debate to be had about whether or not Arya is a Mary Sue: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/apr/30/arya-game-of-thrones-ultimate-mary-sue To be clear, she is not. She's well developed, spends 8 seasons training how to kill making her a believable assassin, and wins the day by being crafty rather than invincible. She's not a Mary Sue. I get it from a cinematic point of view, those shots of a charge into darkness, one by one the lights stuttering out. The shots of the dragons illuminated only by the fire they're breathing down onto the amassed ranks of the undead. Brilliant shots that you'd never have expected to see on a tv show. But it would have been so simple to ask an expert exactly how a force would defend a position against overwhelming numbers. I know the square root of fuck all about feudal military tactics, but I was taken out of the battle scenes by the way it played out. I don't believe they couldn't get the same kind of shots if they'd set out the armies with a bit of common sense? The Arya backlash is just ridiculous as well. She's been training most of her life to become a death dealing badass assassin. We even complained about how long they were spending on her training montages. Even during this episode it showcased the lessons she's learned. How to kill quickly, how to be stealthy, how to steel her nerves. It would have been far worse had bumbling idiot Jon done in the NK. Yes he's a good swordsman, but he's patently a moron. Who would have died permanently seasons ago, were it not for the shiny suit of plot armour he's wearing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38535 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Is that Jon the Moron, leader of the North, the bloke who sets out the battle tactics and that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 12 hours ago, ewerk said: Personally I think they use ballistas. [/trying to outnerd Andrew with my tiny bit of GoT knowledge] https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Scorpion You tried (they absolutely are ballistas though0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, The Fish said: I get it from a cinematic point of view, those shots of a charge into darkness, one by one the lights stuttering out. The shots of the dragons illuminated only by the fire they're breathing down onto the amassed ranks of the undead. Brilliant shots that you'd never have expected to see on a tv show. But it would have been so simple to ask an expert exactly how a force would defend a position against overwhelming numbers. I know the square root of fuck all about feudal military tactics, but I was taken out of the battle scenes by the way it played out. I don't believe they couldn't get the same kind of shots if they'd set out the armies with a bit of common sense? The Arya backlash is just ridiculous as well. She's been training most of her life to become a death dealing badass assassin. We even complained about how long they were spending on her training montages. Even during this episode it showcased the lessons she's learned. How to kill quickly, how to be stealthy, how to steel her nerves. It would have been far worse had bumbling idiot Jon done in the NK. Yes he's a good swordsman, but he's patently a moron. Who would have died permanently seasons ago, were it not for the shiny suit of plot armour he's wearing. Is there much of an Arya backlash? I feel like the Guardian is inventing it but who knows. I'm actually struggling to think of an acceptable way of killing the Night King aside from what they chose. Slightly anticlimactic maybe but at least it was pragmatic and feasible. As an aside, if they'd left the army at home and just had Arya hide in a tree near Bran, many lives could've been saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Is there much of an Arya backlash? I feel like the Guardian is inventing it but who knows. I'm actually struggling to think of an acceptable way of killing the Night King aside from what they chose. Slightly anticlimactic maybe but at least it was pragmatic and feasible. As an aside, if they'd left the army at home and just had Arya hide in a tree near Bran, many lives could've been saved. There is, twitter, reddit(even the usually overwhelmingly positive subs for GoT on there) are rife with it. That 100% couldn't have worked, the night king was cocky towards the end but hes not necessarily stupid, just flawed, if he'd been allowed to just walk up he would've known there was something amiss, the fact that Aryas interjection wasn't really anyones plan (apart from Bran and Melisandre who hadn't told anyone else about it) is exactly why it worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3180 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 So is Arya Azor Ahai? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19720 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 Is she’s who now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3180 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: Is she’s who now? https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Azor_Ahai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4183 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: So is Arya Azor Ahai? I don't think she is, considering that GoT likes to put a bit a bit of a twist on traditional fantasy (ancient prophecies coming exactly true being a mega-trope of most fantasy) who's to say at this point that the prophecy wasn't bullshit and just believed by Melisandre as a personal justification for the things she was doing? The prophecy never states that Azor Ahai reborn will kill the Night King, but that "the darkness shall flee before him" (or her as established last season) there is plenty of metaphorical darkness still as work in Westeros that may need to flee from someone, Danaerys certainly has the strongest claim based on the full wording of the prophecy There aren't really any more mystics in the ranks of the living who really believe in/serve the lord of light anymore, we've seen one or two other red priestesses in Essos who might make an appearance if that thread is to be tied up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 10 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said: Is that Jon the Moron, leader of the North, the bloke who sets out the battle tactics and that? The very same. 9 hours ago, Rayvin said: Is there much of an Arya backlash? I feel like the Guardian is inventing it but who knows. I'm actually struggling to think of an acceptable way of killing the Night King aside from what they chose. Slightly anticlimactic maybe but at least it was pragmatic and feasible. As an aside, if they'd left the army at home and just had Arya hide in a tree near Bran, many lives could've been saved. There's a few better ways to kill the NK, surely? Have there be a distraction that takes NK and his general's attention in the opposite direction, and Arya appear from the bushes. Have the Living deliberately target the generals to reduce the numbers of the undead in the build up to this scene, with NK bumping off a couple of them, then Arya peels a general's face off and stabs NK in the chest (although they shatter when killed don't they?). Have Mel or Bran Magic up a Magic Mcguffin that pops up a shield around the garden so that only the NK is powerful enough to get through. Then have him fight Jon mano-e-mano, have him getting the upper hand and about to deliver the death blow to Jon, then Arya Stark, outta nowhere!! I've no problem with Arya delivering the final strike, but for there to be so many minions between her and the NK, and for there to have been so little illustrating his power beyond raising the dead, made the final act a little underwhelming in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26142 Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Fish said: The very same. There's a few better ways to kill the NK, surely? Have there be a distraction that takes NK and his general's attention in the opposite direction, and Arya appear from the bushes. Have the Living deliberately target the generals to reduce the numbers of the undead in the build up to this scene, with NK bumping off a couple of them, then Arya peels a general's face off and stabs NK in the chest (although they shatter when killed don't they?). Have Mel or Bran Magic up a Magic Mcguffin that pops up a shield around the garden so that only the NK is powerful enough to get through. Then have him fight Jon mano-e-mano, have him getting the upper hand and about to deliver the death blow to Jon, then Arya Stark, outta nowhere!! I've no problem with Arya delivering the final strike, but for there to be so many minions between her and the NK, and for there to have been so little illustrating his power beyond raising the dead, made the final act a little underwhelming in hindsight. How do you know she didn't take the face of a wight to get that close to the NK? The man threw an ice bolt hundreds of metres into the air. What chance would John have had one on one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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