Fraser Forster or The Scottish Football Thread.

[Verrix 0]

Firstly, thanks for a civil reply, difficult to come by when venturing onto another team's forum.

 

Our league is either the best or the second best in the world. Spain probably slightly ahead at the moment but there's not much in it when you look at the teams that have made up the latter stages of the champions league in the last decade.

 

The quality of La Liga is higher, I agree, although if they shared their league winnings/tv revenue out properly then that gap would widen between your league and theirs.

 

 

 

Italian football is often played out in front half empty decrepit old stadiums populated by neo nazi ultras. And the standard is nowhere near what it was 20 years ago.

 

Well, Juve seem to have sorted themselves out, nice new stadium and a pretty swanky side playing some nice football. The two Milanese sides have some financial difficulties, Napoli is a one-man team, Roma has a history of being 'close, but no cigar' with no sign of that changing, Udinese is run extremely well but have pushed their small club about as far as it can go and Lazio is the only club I would tar with the Neo-Nazi brush.

 

 

The Bundesliga is run in the right way but you can't compare the quality there to La Liga or the PL.

 

Agreed, but they're certainly a league on the up though. Dortmund won the "Group of Death" in the Champions League this season, and Bayern Muenchen will have Pep Guardiola next season, who is the best manager alive IMO. Their national team is star studded and young. If they can keep most of it playing in the Bundesliga and have their clubs build their teams around this core of young, homegrown talent then the Bundesliga model will be a success and surpass the BPL.

 

 

 

The French and Dutch leagues make up the also rans. Some good players it not a lot of money, comparatively, and most of the top players quickly depart for England or Spain.

 

And who's fault is that exactly? Seriously though, Ajax are sorting themselves out, they have a really talented young side and are implementing the model that other clubs like Porto, Udinese, Benfica (and us) are advocating. I spent last year living in France, and all I can say is that PSG is the universally hated club of France and their club model is a cancerous growth that stifles competition and prevents a better Ligue 1, which is a shame because Stade Rennais, Lille, OL and OM were giving it a fair go before then.

 

 

I look at the Scottish primer league and I just feel a bit sad. What happened? I grew up in the 80s when Scotland produced players with flair that made up half of the dominant Liverpool team. Now; well it's just a bit pathetic isn't it? What do you out its demise and the complete dearth of talented Scottish footballers down to?

 

I don't know about the dearth of Scottish talent (I don't think we ever had that much, we are a small-ish country who just happened to be ahead of a lot of other nations with regards to tactics for a while and eventually we were going to get overtaken). We've also had more than our fair share of excellent managers over the years... Alex Ferguson, Jock Stein, Willie Maley, Matt Busby, Bill Shankly, to name a few.

 

The league situation is purely down to money. Firstly, clubs were run very poorly for far too long, racking up unacceptable levels of debt (Motherwell, Dundee, Livingston, Gretna and Rangers being the main ones). That has set the league back a lot.

 

On top of that, the league has been marketed awfully. The Austrian league raises more TV revenue than the SPL, which is a shocking statistic, so it's no wonder the league has deteriorated since the European title winning years. Maybe this will change sometime soon, we're due a league reform next year, so hopefully the (largely incompetent) SFA are going to get their finger out, thrash the problem out and get it sorted once and for all.

[Verrix 0]

BPL?

 

Barclays Premier League. It's called not the English Premier League, because firstly, that's not it's official name, and secondly, it contains one Welsh team, and possibly two as of next year, which would make up 10% of the league.

[Meenzer 14031]

Barclays Premier League. It's called not the English Premier League, because firstly, that's not it's official name, and secondly, it contains one Welsh team, and possibly two as of next year, which would make up 10% of the league.

 

In that case, say "CBPL" too. Official name or not, if you're going to bend over and take it off the sponsors then you might as well be consistent.

 

Out of interest, would you still say "SPL" if Berwick reached the top flight?

[The Fish 8989]

Your post here.

 

OK, the Premier League is superior to the SPL by any measure you'd like to use. Better players, better stadia, better coverage, more fans, more global interest, more money.

 

You pin all your argument on the performance of 2 clubs in cup competitions. Celtic nor Hearts would get into Europe of they were to ply their trade in England, without Europe you'd get an even lower class of player than you see now. Without Europe and the better players there you'd not be able to beat the likes of Stoke and Wigan whom you deride. Without those wins you'd not get the fans who swell your attendance figures falsely (It's easy to go and see a team comfortably beat every team that comes to visit). No Europe, no players, smaller attendances. Your club would soon becaome the same as the clubs you deride. A novel away day now and again, a decent Cup side, but mid-table mediocrity beckons.

 

Forster wouldn't get in our side. All of our 1st team would get into yours. Could you beat us on your day? Probably, I mean, Oldham have beaten Liverpool in a cup competition, so why not? Would we finish above you in the league, barring some injury crisis? Abso-fucking-lutely.

[Verrix 0]

Yeah the SPL isn't a Mickey Mouse league where the best players go to Championship clubs and Championship Clubs rejects end up in the SPL.

 

Given you are by far and away the best team in the league tell me how many players would get into our side that currently sits in 15th place in the Premiership?

 

Firstly, we sold Ki to Swansea last summer for £6 million and he walked straight into their first team when he couldn't even get break into ours.

 

Our left back Izaguirre looked like he was gunna be off to Utd for £15 million summer before last, but then he went and broke his ankle.

 

Kayal is another guy who'd do a job for a mid-table BPL side who needed a decent passer, tackler and all-round hard working industrious midfielder. Same with Brown, Ledley and Mulgrew.

 

Adam Matthews is a looking like a gem of a player, and is debatably the best British U21 right back.

 

Hooper, Forster, and Wanyama would be an asset to *any* BPL team. Hooper and Forster because they're English (and we all know how much that counts down South...) and that they're both playing at a very high standard, exemplified by their respective European performances. Wanyama is there too because he looks like he could really be something special, honest to god.

 

The rest of our squad is pretty much all youngsters for whom it's too early to tell.

 

Anyway, if we had anything like the TV revenue you had, we'd certainly be doing better than 15th in your league and half our squad wouldn't be playing for us.

 

You might have had a decent cup run, these things happen but don't kid yourself that any of your players would get near the clubs you have put in impressive performances against.

 

Well, Barcelona were so impressed with Fraser Forster they nicknamed him 'La Gran Muralla' (the Great Wall). Don't see Krul getting any such praise... Take from that what you will.

[Howmanheyman 26768]

This is the type of thing that happens when you don't get on your knees and metaphorically suck off any gloryhunting fan by agreeing that they are indeed super, smashing, really great and Celtic most definitely fall into that category.

 

Please do me a favour and fuck off. This 'diddy' club which has won jack shit since 1969 and managed to average over 40k on twelve occasions before your wonder club first managed it in the nineties simply couldn't give fuck.

[Verrix 0]

These fuckers weren't on here crowing last season when all Scottish sides failed to get beyond Christmas in European football. Which is a lot more common than one of of them reaching the knock out stages of the champions league by a long,long way. This season is a pleasant abberation for Celtic, fair play to them. It does show these pathetically small time morons on here in a particularly poor light though. Fuck me, I can't beleive some of the utter bollocks they've posted

 

Previous to now, if you didn't win the league, you didn't make the group stages of the CL, even though you entered the qualifiers by coming 2nd. You'd get financially muscled out of the CL qualifiers in the non-champions/runners up route. It's not much easier now though, even with Rangers gone, because there are more qualifying rounds.

 

The difference this season is that we have proper model in place for the club, these things take time. This is now Lennon's team that he's built himself and not inherited from the previous regime. The scouting staff have really put in a shift and put together a cracking young team on the cheap.

 

We're top of the league and still in the CL. Better post on a Newcastle forum and tell those geordies what's what.

 

Feel free to post on the various Celtic forums, I won't begrudge you that. If you want to contribute to the discussion in the mean time, feel free.

 

In that case, say "CBPL" too. Official name or not, if you're going to bend over and take it off the sponsors then you might as well be consistent. Out of interest, would you still say "SPL" if Berwick reached the top flight?

 

BPL is shorter and easier Berwick are as likely to get in the SPL as FC Utd are to get into the BPL, so I don't think we need to be thinking about renaming anytime soon lol

[Brock Manson 0]

Hooper, Forster, and Wanyama would be an asset to *any* BPL team.

 

[Gejon 2]

Firstly, we sold Ki to Swansea last summer for £6 million and he walked straight into their first team when he couldn't even get break into ours.

 

Our left back Izaguirre looked like he was gunna be off to Utd for £15 million summer before last, but then he went and broke his ankle.

 

Kayal is another guy who'd do a job for a mid-table BPL side who needed a decent passer, tackler and all-round hard working industrious midfielder. Same with Brown, Ledley and Mulgrew.

 

Adam Matthews is a looking like a gem of a player, and is debatably the best British U21 right back.

 

Hooper, Forster, and Wanyama would be an asset to *any* BPL team. Hooper and Forster because they're English (and we all know how much that counts down South...) and that they're both playing at a very high standard, exemplified by their respective European performances. Wanyama is there too because he looks like he could really be something special, honest to god.

 

The rest of our squad is pretty much all youngsters for whom it's too early to tell.

 

Anyway, if we had anything like the TV revenue you had, we'd certainly be doing better than 15th in your league and half our squad wouldn't be playing for us.

 

 

 

Well, Barcelona were so impressed with Fraser Forster they nicknamed him 'La Gran Muralla' (the Great Wall). Don't see Krul getting any such praise... Take from that what you will.

 

So how many of your players would get into our team?

 

Funny that Barcelona have never commented on Krul, it's like he has never played against them!

Edited February 4, 2013 by Gejon

[Gejon 2]

Oh and I am sure Barca will be straight on the phone to your lot since Valdes won't sign a new contract. We'll see.

[Aeris 0]

 

It's Mr.Tiote, he's Cheick Tiote's dad

[Verrix 0]

This is the type of thing that happens when you don't get on your knees and metaphorically suck off any gloryhunting fan by agreeing that they are indeed super, smashing, really great and Celtic most definitely fall into that category.

 

Please do me a favour and fuck off. This 'diddy' club which has won jack shit since 1969 and managed to average over 40k on twelve occasions before your wonder club first managed it in the nineties simply couldn't give fuck.

 

Ho Ho, glory hunting? That's a new one. Do explain how Celtic fans fall into this "glory hunting" category?

 

"Diddy"? We have a world-wide fan base, courtesy of the Irish and Scottish diasporas. No offense, but I've never heard of the Geordie diaspora...

 

You accuse us of having won nothing since 1967, the year when we won the greatest honour in European club football, the Champions league? Quoting Wikipedia: "[Newcastle]'s last major honour was in 1969 when they won the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup." Not really comparable trophies, are they?

 

Since then we have won the league 19 times, the cup 15 times and the league cup 8 times. We also reached the final of the Champions League again in 1970 and the Europa League final more recently in 2003. Compare that to the one second division trophy you have won in this time (and only after being relegated in the first place). Now that is "jack shit".

 

I didn't really want to bring up that last point, but then again, you were being a rude little cabrón. I'm surprised you did bring that point up... Surely any real Newcastle Utd fan would've known about the lack of silverware? Who's the "glory hunter" now, pal?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Verrix

[The Fish 8989]

Ho Ho, glory hunting? That's a new one. Do explain how Celtic fans fall into this "glory hunting" category?

 

"Diddy"? We have a world-wide fan base, courtesy of the Irish and Scottish diasporas. No offense, but I've never heard of the Geordie diaspora...

 

You accuse us of having won nothing since 1969, the year when we won the greatest honour in European club football, the Champions league? Quoting Wikipedia: "[Newcastle]'s last major honour was in 1969 when they won the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup." Not really comparable trophies, are they?

 

Since then we have won the league 19 times, the cup 15 times and the league cup 8 times. We also reached the final of the Champions League again in 1970 and the Europa League final more recently in 2003. Compare that to the one second division trophy you have won in this time (and only after being relegated in the first place). Now that is "jack shit".

 

I didn't really want to bring up that last point, but then again, you were being a rude little cabrón. I'm surprised you did bring that point up... Surely any real Newcastle Utd fan would've known about the lack of silverware? Who's the "glory hunter" now, pal?

Read his post. He's saying that we're the "diddy" club, we've won nowt since 69, which is why it's impressive and remarkable we still get the crowds we get, get the attention we get, get the players we get and get the money we get

[Verrix 0]

 

By asset, I mean squad player being used in rotation for the top 4, a first team player for Europa League teams and a key player for anyone else.

 

If you can't even concede that...

 

So how many of your players would get into our team?

 

Funny that Barcelona have never commented on Krul, it's like he has never played against them!

 

Well, the 7 I mentioned would get into your starting XI IMO. Feel free to debate that if you want.

 

Oh and I am sure Barca will be straight on the phone to your lot since Valdes won't sign a new contract. We'll see.

 

Funny you mention that...

 

 

A Spanish Blog linked Fraser Forster with the move to them. I don't put much faith in rumours, but then again, you don't get rumoured to be going somewhere for no reason. I mean, look at the other guy mentioned, Ter Stegen! If his name's in the same sentence as Forster's, then you know he's highly thought of.

[PaddockLad 14579]

Ho Ho, glory hunting? That's a new one. Do explain how Celtic fans fall into this "glory hunting" category?

 

"Diddy"? We have a world-wide fan base, courtesy of the Irish and Scottish diasporas. No offense, but I've never heard of the Geordie diaspora...

 

You accuse us of having won nothing since 1969, the year when we won the greatest honour in European club football, the Champions league? Quoting Wikipedia: "[Newcastle]'s last major honour was in 1969 when they won the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup." Not really comparable trophies, are they?

 

Since then we have won the league 19 times, the cup 15 times and the league cup 8 times. We also reached the final of the Champions League again in 1970 and the Europa League final more recently in 2003. Compare that to the one second division trophy you have won in this time (and only after being relegated in the first place). Now that is "jack shit".

 

I didn't really want to bring up that last point, but then again, you were being a rude little cabrón. I'm surprised you did bring that point up... Surely any real Newcastle Utd fan would've known about the lack of silverware? Who's the "glory hunter" now, pal?

The point Howman is making is NUFC have won nowt since 69 and we still could get a bigger crowd to watch us for most of the 4 decades since then than Celtic or Rangers could. You lot and Rangers struggled to get 20k in the late 70s/early 80s despite your glorious trophy filled very recent pasts. We've won fuck all to speak of in the modern era to but can attract the sort of crowds Champions League winners Chelsea can only dream of. That doesn't make us a big club by any means, but it makes us unique in modern British football.

[Verrix 0]

Read his post. He's saying that we're the "diddy" club, we've won nowt since 69, which is why it's impressive and remarkable we still get the crowds we get, get the attention we get, get the players we get and get the money we get

 

Nowhere did I call you a "diddy" club... That was his choice of words, not mine.

 

Still, you only get crowds of ~50,000 (although when you were in the championship in 09/10 season, it was ~43,000) which is mostly because you have a fairly good standard of football, because you bring in fairly good players, which is because you get £40 million in TV revenue every year. Money talks, and without it, those players wouldn't be there. That said, you're basically not able to advance anymore, you can't compete with the fanbases of London, Manchester and Liverpool, Newcastle is just too small.

[Brock Manson 0]

By asset, I mean squad player being used in rotation for the top 4, a first team player for Europa League teams and a key player for anyone else.

 

If you can't even concede that...

 

Hooper was a good Championship striker but is completely unproven in the Premier League. He's probably at the same level as Ross McCormack or Chopra. It was telling that the only premier league team interested in signing him in the last window was Norwich. Would he be a rotation for any of the current top 4? No. Well perhaps at Spurs if he was already on the books but only because they only have Defoe and Adebayor as recognised strikers.

 

Forster was sold by a Europa League team. Considering him and Krul are around the same age and have been with the club for a very long time, I trust the judgement of our management in deciding that Krul is the better player. Forster's had two performances of note against Barca, that doesn't mean he's VV's replacement. You only have to look at Craig Gordon, who was a fantastic SPL keeper but ultimately didn't make it in the Prem. Forster

 

Wanyama I've never seen play so can't comment.

 

It's easy to say that 7 of Celtic's players will get into our first team (however laughable that suggestion is given the strength of the first team we last put out against Chelsea) because you're watching a team playing shite opposition week in, week out. You may well think that your team are great because you upstaged Barca (despite having to rely on superhuman goalkeeping performances to do so) and have a decent record against English teams, but it doesn't make it a fact.

 

Middlesborough got to the Euro Cup final btw, so not sure why you're stating that competition as an example of your club's 'superiority'.

 

Oh and as for Ki playing regularly for Swansea - he's looked an ordinary player. Fits in well with their system as he can pass it sideways nicely but can't say he's stood out this season.

[The Fish 8989]

Nowhere did I call you a "diddy" club... That was his choice of words, not mine.

 

Still, you only get crowds of ~50,000 (although when you were in the championship in 09/10 season, it was ~43,000) which is mostly because you have a fairly good standard of football, because you bring in fairly good players, which is because you get £40 million in TV revenue every year. Money talks, and without it, those players wouldn't be there. That said, you're basically not able to advance anymore, you can't compete with the fanbases of London, Manchester and Liverpool, Newcastle is just too small.

 

So the only reasons we get massive crowds is because we've good players, play good football and we're rich?

We've won nowt, in over half a century and we still put 90% of the English leagues and 100% of the Scottish leagues to shame.

 

The ONLY reason you get average crowd is because you win most weeks. 3 seasons in the Premier League and you'd be consistently be below the 75% capacity you managed against Kilmarnock. More often than not, you'd be losing away to the likes of Fulham, Stoke and Swansea and losing at home to the Manchester clubs, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham, Arsenal, ourselves and Everton. Also, the bigots in your fanbase would soon realise they can't get away with that kind of idiocy in the real world.

 

You're not a big fish in a small pond, you're just the only toad in a puddle.

[The Fish 8989]

Oh and the reason we can't currently progress beyond Europa League Spots at the minute is the same reason you'd be a midtable club in the Premier League. There are clubs with much much more money ahead of us. Mind, every now and then the rich clubs stutter and miss out on Champions League spots and we, like Everton, Spurs, Liverpool would have a chance to get in their place.

[Howmanheyman 26768]

I give up with this lad already. Sorry, it was one of your pals labelled us 'diddy'. How can I label many of your fans gloryhunters? Hmmmn........ Tough one that to be honest, why do you think you've a big support? Honestly would like know. Is it the many trophies you win when you happen to be better than Rangers

[Howmanheyman 26768]

.......Is it because many of your fans choose you over Rangers as they're on the 'other' team of the Christian pov?

 

Maybe all your fans choose you as green is there favouritest colour in the Whole wide world?

 

Nowt to do with winning most games then?

[Howay 12452]

So how many of your players would get into our team?

Well, the 7 I mentioned would get into your starting XI IMO. Feel free to debate that if you want.

You mentioned 9 so not sure of which 7 of the 9 are the ones you think would get into our starting 11 but:

Izaguirre would have an extremely tough job getting a game over Davide Santon, can't see that one.

Kayal, Brown, Mulgrew, Ledley and Wanyama wouldn't get a game over Sissoko, Cabaye and Tiote, I'd also take Anita over all bar perhaps Wanyama.

Matthews definitely wouldn't get in over Debuchy.

Forster wouldn't get in over Krul.

And I'd take Cisse over Hooper for sure.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193]

What do you expect from people who support a team based on religion.

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Goon Brigade alert.

[Howmanheyman 26768]

They do tend to get a little miffed if you don't join in with their self praise regarding their club. I think Linfield are the most successful club in the world but their fans boasts are tongue in cheek, whereas Celtic's tongues just constantly flap like Ghandi's flip-flops, 'see Selic, greatest club in the weruld' (copyright chief Wrong'un detective Stevie McFaul who should be given a special dispensation to post in this thread alone if nothing else).