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Obama once again showing America is Israel's lapdog.


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Im not going to look for a 'balanced view' just for the heck of it and when there really isnt one. Its genocide. Ethnic cleansing. Call it what you will.

It's really easy to spot someone who goes out of their way to take a de-facto position in support for a belligerent in a conflict, when they talk about a fundamentally one sided conflict in terms of "they are both as bad as each with murder on both sides other just one has bigger guns".

 

Imagine people talking about the Warsaw ghetto in terms of "Look how sick Judaism is, look at the texts, they are as bad as each other but the equally racist nazis have bigger guns"

 

Shocking.

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So you are saying there has been no conflict between Jews and Arabs in the area of Israel/Palestine before the turn of the 18/19th century?

I don't think there's anything unclear in what I've stated so far. You've made several claims and (beyond the incredibly obvious stuff, which didn't need pointing out anyway) you've been unable to back those claims up when asked to do so. You're now attempting to words in my mouth. If there's anything I've stated which you disagree with then by all means call me out on them and we can discuss that.

And in answer to your question, 'no'. It's a daft question though, there's not a group of neighbouring countries / ethnic groups / tribes in the world that don't have a history of conflict. Until relatively recently though, the Arabs were the least of the Jews problems.

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here lies the big problem, and where the leadership has to come from obama and netanyahu. unlikely as obama has doesn't want his fingers burned in the middle east, because of what happened to his predecessors. the less said about netanyahu and the likud party, the better. a two state solution will never happen as long as he's in power.

 

it won't happen as long as hamas is in power either though. their main mission is to wipe israel off the map. how do you negotiate with that?

 

Al Jazeera: "Meshaal said Hamas wants the 'aggression to stop tomorrow, today, or even this minute. But [israel must] lift the blockade with guarantees and not as a promise for future negotiations'. He added 'we will not shut the door in the face of any humanitarian ceasefire backed by a real aid programme'." Jerusalem Post: "One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organization proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.. Hamas's conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade." BBC: "Israel's security cabinet has rejected a week-long Gaza ceasefire proposal put forward by US Secretary of State John Kerry 'as it stands'."

 

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5624401

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Al Jazeera: "Meshaal said Hamas wants the 'aggression to stop tomorrow, today, or even this minute. But [israel must] lift the blockade with guarantees and not as a promise for future negotiations'. He added 'we will not shut the door in the face of any humanitarian ceasefire backed by a real aid programme'." Jerusalem Post: "One day after an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire accepted by Israel, but rejected by Hamas, fell through, the terrorist organization proposed a 10-year end to hostilities in return for its conditions being met by Israel, Channel 2 reported Wednesday.. Hamas's conditions were the release of re-arrested Palestinian prisoners who were let go in the Schalit deal, the opening of Gaza-Israel border crossings in order to allow citizens and goods to pass through, and international supervision of the Gazan seaport in place of the current Israeli blockade." BBC: "Israel's security cabinet has rejected a week-long Gaza ceasefire proposal put forward by US Secretary of State John Kerry 'as it stands'."

 

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5624401

 

That being the case, Israel is acting atrociously. Did they specify reasons for rejecting it? I suppose it's the border opening one.

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I think a bit of history is crucial right now, especially considering the ridiculous black & white (sorry) simplicity that some people appear to have taken on this (I can be as guilty as the next person I admit).

 

first off Hamas are hardly representative of all Palestinian people, there are many schisms and divisions existing within Gaza (never mind the broader picture). Hamas just happened to be in a position of power due to control of certain tunnels/imports/medical supplies etc after the previous Israel murder spree, they were able to provide medical supplies and food to a people that had no one else providing such things (and it's worth remembering that these tunnels being discussed in the news are nothing new, they have existed since biblical times (if not before)).

 

If you want to see what the rise of Hamas has had on the workers/unions/left etc in Palestine then have a read of this article form 2008.

 

Now with that in mind, it would seem that a right-wing racist organisation such as Hamas can only play into the hands of the equally right-wing expansionist state of Israel, who's recent history is no better illustrated than this little map...

 

Palestinian_Loss_of_Land_1946_by_neverev

 

If anyone is interested in a very detailed/researched piece on this subject/history (and who isn't put off with some occasional oldskool/academic wording) then you'll be hard to find a better article than this. - a word of warning, it is a particularly long piece, but no one said it was going to be easy.

Edited by RedfernMag
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One of the great testaments to this forum is that Parky (real name Fritz von Judmörder) and Dr G (real name Eli Goldberg) have never fully fallen out despite their obvious ideological differences.

:lol:

 

Parky's one of my favourite posters, despite his raging antisemitism. ;-)

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I'll vouch for Gloom he's alright.

 

We've been through this over the years and he's slowly beginning to see the light. ;) I'm not surprised to see his condemnation of Netanyahu. Most Jews I've met are liberal Woody Allen types anyway.

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look forward to hamas being wiped out.

 

Shame the folk of gaza dont have the sense to overthrow them. Gonna make them suffer for their stupidity.

They elected them Womble. Fair and square overseen by the UN.

 

 

For the “international community” — principally the ‘Quartet’ made up of the United States, the European Union, Russia and UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, the election result is a major embarassment. They, and the coterie of well-funded NGOs and think tanks that generate so much of their intellectual guff have built their approach on the notion that Palestinian “reform” rather than an end to the Israeli occupation, is the way to resolve the conflict. While nominally committing themselves to a two-state solution, these powers dragged the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority into an endless game where Palestinians have to jump through hoops to prove their worthiness of basic rights, while at the same time no pressure has been applied to Israel to end the confiscation of land and expansion of settlements."

Edited by Park Life
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