Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I havent found a single critizism voiced at him for how he has behaved himself while in NUFC. A bit unfair to assume that based on episodes occuring many years ago in Lyon/Marseille... To get a better understanding of the league and how it plays I`d think being on the actual pitch would be preferrable to seeing it from the sidelines in terms of adapting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8973 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I havent found a single critizism voiced at him for how he has behaved himself while in NUFC. A bit unfair to assume that based on episodes occuring many years ago in Lyon/Marseille... To get a better understanding of the league and how it plays I`d think being on the actual pitch would be preferrable to seeing it from the sidelines in terms of adapting... I know you're desperate to seem to be right, but to argue about whether it was wise to leave him out or not is fruitless. Pardew knows more about football than you or I and he seems to be getting the best out of HBA and we're not exactly suddenly changing our fortunes since his inclusion. I maintain he was correct to leave him out and he was correct to introduce him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 As I tried to point out earlier, Pardew gave him some starts and then withdrew him again. He didn't perform that well earlier on so the only argument you can make is that by leaving him in the team whilst underperforming, Ben Arfa would have found his current form a few games earlier. We don't know that though. All we do know is the facts, that Pardew's approach to the player has brought spectacular results. The idea that he could have left him in the side for the Villa, QPR and Spurs games ( and started him Wolves and Mackems giving him a full run in the side since early January) would have brought earlier or better results, is just that, an idea. The fact of the matter is that we beat Villa and QPR anyway and would have lost to Spurs. A complaint that Ben Arfa could have played earlier is essentially a complaint about the Spurs and Wolves results. So, in reality, it's a complaint about the Wolves result. He gave him 30 mins against Wolves so not really much to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenarPHa 0 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Harry redknapp at it again: "he boy at Newcastle's a good player as well, he's a talent, Ben Arfa. He's similar, another good little dribbler. "We probably could have had him as well, but you can't take everyone can you? You end up with dozens of players hanging around, and we've got good players here anyway so he might not have got in our team." Pathetic!! good little dribbler? No need for that from Redknapp, that 'good little dribbler' will see spurs in the EL next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Basically anyone who didn't have doubts about whether Ben Arfa was gonna succeed at NUFC earlier in the season was kidding themselves. "Just pick him" wasn't the answer, which is why Pardew deserves credit. Not sure how Chez is in that list mind. The only one on here who knew how good he was before we signed him. I'm his official stalker. Harrassing him in nightclubs, penning verbose and demented love poems about him--it's getting creepy now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Harry redknapp at it again: "he boy at Newcastle's a good player as well, he's a talent, Ben Arfa. He's similar, another good little dribbler. "We probably could have had him as well, but you can't take everyone can you? You end up with dozens of players hanging around, and we've got good players here anyway so he might not have got in our team." Pathetic!! good little dribbler? No need for that from Redknapp, that 'good little dribbler' will see spurs in the EL next season! Sir 'Arry's only a few year shy of being a 'good little dribbler' himself with that flaccid slackjaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Assilleekunt 1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 As I tried to point out earlier, Pardew gave him some starts and then withdrew him again. He didn't perform that well earlier on so the only argument you can make is that by leaving him in the team whilst underperforming, Ben Arfa would have found his current form a few games earlier. We don't know that though. All we do know is the facts, that Pardew's approach to the player has brought spectacular results. The idea that he could have left him in the side for the Villa, QPR and Spurs games ( and started him Wolves and Mackems giving him a full run in the side since early January) would have brought earlier or better results, is just that, an idea. The fact of the matter is that we beat Villa and QPR anyway and would have lost to Spurs. A complaint that Ben Arfa could have played earlier is essentially a complaint about the Spurs and Wolves results. So, in reality, it's a complaint about the Wolves result. He gave him 30 mins against Wolves so not really much to complain about. You must have done a shite job of explaining what is essentially a post listing our previous results if you've had to rewrite it. Time is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I havent found a single critizism voiced at him for how he has behaved himself while in NUFC. A bit unfair to assume that based on episodes occuring many years ago in Lyon/Marseille... To get a better understanding of the league and how it plays I`d think being on the actual pitch would be preferrable to seeing it from the sidelines in terms of adapting... I know you're desperate to seem to be right' date=' but to argue about whether it was wise to leave him out or not is fruitless. Pardew knows more about football than you or I and he seems to be getting the best out of HBA and we're not exactly suddenly changing our fortunes since his inclusion. I maintain he was correct to leave him out and he was correct to introduce him now. [/quote'] Arguing a point = desperate to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12755 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) As I tried to point out earlier, Pardew gave him some starts and then withdrew him again. He didn't perform that well earlier on so the only argument you can make is that by leaving him in the team whilst underperforming, Ben Arfa would have found his current form a few games earlier. We don't know that though. All we do know is the facts, that Pardew's approach to the player has brought spectacular results. The idea that he could have left him in the side for the Villa, QPR and Spurs games ( and started him Wolves and Mackems giving him a full run in the side since early January) would have brought earlier or better results, is just that, an idea. The fact of the matter is that we beat Villa and QPR anyway and would have lost to Spurs. A complaint that Ben Arfa could have played earlier is essentially a complaint about the Spurs and Wolves results. So, in reality, it's a complaint about the Wolves result. He gave him 30 mins against Wolves so not really much to complain about. We were outplayed at Spurs (finished in the first 5 minutes tbh) and with the Wolves game, we had one eye on the Mackems so we were shite. Hatem would have made very little difference in those two. He had runs in the squad and didn't buy into the philosophy so he was dropped until he did; now he does, he's flying. Playing him all season would have sent him the wrong impression about his application (which clearly wasn't there in training). Pardew's played a blinder at getting supreme performances out of a brilliant talent. Basically, I agree Edited April 13, 2012 by Ayatollah Hermione Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The only one responsible for the fantastic performances is Ben Arfa. He might have had to adjust his attitude a bit in order to get playing time, but you were always going to get these performances with him. Dicipline and attitude can always be improved though, and for this pardew deserves credit, but his offensive contributions are his alone. Even pardew has admitted he just lets Ben arfa do his own thing offensively. I always felt he should have been on the pitch from the second he was fit and not half a year later. Sir Bobby Robson couldnt even get Romario to show up for training, yet he started him every week. Sometimes the talent is just too great not to. Training is just that - training for match performances. It means nothing if you cant deliver when it really counts. Bobby Robson, who was in charge of him at PSV Eindhoven, is almost as eloquent. "A phenomenal player with the most exquisite technique," he said. "But uncoachable. He had so much talent maybe he thought he didn't need it. I would count up the players on the training ground and Romario would be missing. I'd see him going into the dressing-room and call him over. I was simply ignored. But you forgave him everything because he was such a phenomenon." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12755 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The only one responsible for the fantastic performances is Ben Arfa So is he responsible for the shite ones too? Or is that Pardew's fault? He didn't just press a button that said 'perform' ffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6134 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 All we do know is the facts, that Pardew's approach to the player has brought spectacular results. Err, that's a fact how exactly? What we know is that Ben Arfa's ability has brought spectacular results. All that was required for that was to give him sufficient time on the pitch to regain fitness, sharpness, touch and to form combinations with his team mates. Look at Pardew's treatment of Obertan? Why do you think that has so starkly constrained the treatment of Ben Arfa? For me it comes down to two things - Obertan was Pardew's choice and so the pressure was on him for Obertan to perform, and two, Ben Arfa is not the type of person to be wholly compliant to the demands of a manager. Pardew clearly favors those sort of players (eg. Perch). Ben Arfa was played sporadically and it was only when there was no other options that he began to see regular time on the pitch (not just pressure filled cameos). With that time on the pitch he has produced in spades and is now happy, fit and at the top of his game. When he's in that state it won't really matter who the manager is, he'd be a dream to have in the side. I like Pardew but I don't think he has handled Ben Arfa particularly well. At least, I think, he has treated him on par with others in the side only in the way that attitude and application is given a higher regard than skill and creativity. Best is another example of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6796 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 All we do know is the facts, that Pardew's approach to the player has brought spectacular results. Err, that's a fact how exactly? What we know is that Ben Arfa's ability has brought spectacular results. All that was required for that was to give him sufficient time on the pitch to regain fitness, sharpness, touch and to form combinations with his team mates. Look at Pardew's treatment of Obertan? Why do you think that has so starkly constrained the treatment of Ben Arfa? For me it comes down to two things - Obertan was Pardew's choice and so the pressure was on him for Obertan to perform, and two, Ben Arfa is not the type of person to be wholly compliant to the demands of a manager. Pardew clearly favors those sort of players (eg. Perch). Ben Arfa was played sporadically and it was only when there was no other options that he began to see regular time on the pitch (not just pressure filled cameos). With that time on the pitch he has produced in spades and is now happy, fit and at the top of his game. When he's in that state it won't really matter who the manager is, he'd be a dream to have in the side. I like Pardew but I don't think he has handled Ben Arfa particularly well. At least, I think, he has treated him on par with others in the side only in the way that attitude and application is given a higher regard than skill and creativity. Best is another example of this. Despite the fact just about every coach who's had anything to to with HBA says otherwise (in reportedly glowing terms) ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Read the post again OTF, I said that you can argue that Pardew starting Ben Arfa earlier could have brought better results but that we dont know that. As AH points out, leaving him in the side despite poor performances is not as likely to have led to the performances he is putting in. Pardew has asked for discipline when we don't have the ball, the player has had to adapt his natural game realising that he doesn't get to act the big I am. Something made him change, he also is less selfish with the ball and seems to have got his read around using the ball better in the middle of the park and when to decide to make a dribble, something he was massively criticized for not being able to do at Marseille and Lyon. We aren't just seeing the Ben Arfa that existed before, we are seeing a better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Manson 0 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The only one responsible for the fantastic performances is Ben Arfa So is he responsible for the shite ones too? Or is that Pardew's fault? He didn't just press a button that said 'perform' ffs Ben Arfa - 4 Rage Quit Load Game Ben Arfa - 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6134 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Read the post again OTF, I said that you can argue that Pardew starting Ben Arfa earlier could have brought better results but that we dont know that. As AH points out, leaving him in the side despite poor performances is not as likely to have led to the performances he is putting in. Pardew has asked for discipline when we don't have the ball, the player has had to adapt his natural game realising that he doesn't get to act the big I am. Something made him change, he also is less selfish with the ball and seems to have got his read around using the ball better in the middle of the park and when to decide to make a dribble, something he was massively criticized for not being able to do at Marseille and Lyon. We aren't just seeing the Ben Arfa that existed before, we are seeing a better one. My contention is that the performances that he was giving were consistent with what was to be expected from someone who has been out for so long and hadn't had a chance to adjust to the league. I also believe that his in reading defensive contribution is a result of not only gaining proper match fitness, but also confidence is his legs after his injuries. On top of that I think having been a more central player in the team will naturally lead someone to want to put more effort into the other parts of their game - just as a defender will get forward on occassion an attacking player will give more attention to defensive duties. As I said earlier I'm just ecstatic that we're getting these sort of performances out of Ben Arfa. I pipe up because people incorrectly point to the performances as evidence that Pardew choosing not to play Ben Arfa earlier in the piece was justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6134 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 ...or somehow contributed to his current level of play. Also please excuse my autocorrection horrors that keep getting me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6796 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Read the post again OTF, I said that you can argue that Pardew starting Ben Arfa earlier could have brought better results but that we dont know that. As AH points out, leaving him in the side despite poor performances is not as likely to have led to the performances he is putting in. Pardew has asked for discipline when we don't have the ball, the player has had to adapt his natural game realising that he doesn't get to act the big I am. Something made him change, he also is less selfish with the ball and seems to have got his read around using the ball better in the middle of the park and when to decide to make a dribble, something he was massively criticized for not being able to do at Marseille and Lyon. We aren't just seeing the Ben Arfa that existed before, we are seeing a better one. My contention is that the performances that he was giving were consistent with what was to be expected from someone who has been out for so long and hadn't had a chance to adjust to the league. I also believe that his in reading defensive contribution is a result of not only gaining proper match fitness, but also confidence is his legs after his injuries. On top of that I think having been a more central player in the team will naturally lead someone to want to put more effort into the other parts of their game - just as a defender will get forward on occassion an attacking player will give more attention to defensive duties. As I said earlier I'm just ecstatic that we're getting these sort of performances out of Ben Arfa. I pipe up because people incorrectly point to the performances as evidence that Pardew choosing not to play Ben Arfa earlier in the piece was justified. In your opinion................. The talent/flair/genius is all HBA's. However, I'm firmly in the camp that the honing/melding of said talent/flair/genius into a position where it can flourish/express itself, is at the feet of Pardew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 The bottom line in all of this to me is that Pardew had to put the Team first, not Ben Arfa. We can only guess what went on behind the scenes however snippets that have come out in the press show a "fitting in" learning curve taking place. Its fair comment to say Ben Arfa may have needed match time to get right, but that is only half the story. It is after all the Newcastle show, not the Ben Arfa show. Maybe he should have taken to the reserves to gain firness rather than fleeing to Tunisia. HBA put in quite a few dreadful performances and it is understandable if Pardews first responsibility is gaining points. Having seen the miracles he has worked with Taylor and Perch I am quite happy to put my trust in Pardews handling of the situation, particularly given HBA's past problems and recent press outpourings confirming that his head has been all over the place. Of course Chez has to take some blame for the mental damage he inflicted in that nightclub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Never mind Ben Arfa, it's Pardew's handling of Ferguson that's really caught the eye. The lad's coming on leaps and bounds, won't be long before Jonas is out of the team for good. And good riddance I say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Ben Arfa will be shitting it himself with that pasty wee gollum skinning him in training every day. Edited April 13, 2012 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Never mind Ben Arfa, it's Pardew's handling of Ferguson that's really caught the eye. The lad's coming on leaps and bounds, won't be long before Jonas is out of the team for good. And good riddance I say. fantastic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 http://www.teamtalk.com/newcastle-united/7669528/Ben-Arfa-s-good-but-not-that-good? Oh dear doesn't even cover it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 http://www.teamtalk....-not-that-good? Oh dear doesn't even cover it Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney 0 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I am Jak's colon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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