Park Life 70 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Obertan'll never cut it imo. He's utterly fucking clueless when he has time to make a decision in possession. Think Pards likes him cause when he DOES RUN UP THE PITCH he stretches the game and momentarily eases pressure. The fact that nothing comes of it is a bridge he doesn't want to cross right now. What would I do? I'd sell Guti and Obi and not play wingers. It's the DM's role to shunt from side to side and protect the fullbacks anyway and Tiote is easily more than capable. I don't think Pards will ever do that mind cause he likes the wingers to protect the full backs. Tbf Pards has done well enough this season wiht this approach. Edited February 7, 2012 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Newcastle is the only place Jonas has ever played on the left, including the argies, and likewise HBA on the right Nah he's played there in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obertan'll never cut it imo. He's utterly fucking clueless when he has time to make a decision in possession. Think Pards likes him cause when he DOES RUN UP THE PITCH he stretches the game and momentarily eases pressure. The fact that nothing comes of it is a bridge he doesn't want to cross right now. What would I do? I'd sell Guti and Obi and not play wingers. It's the DM's role to shunt from side to side and protect the fullbacks anyway and Tiote is easily more than capable. Aye, he plays him for his pace, which I can understand tbh as it's something we've lacked for a while but I think the penny's dropped with Pardew and he's realised he's bought a duffer tbh. Ryan Taylor is ahead of him in the queue. HBA is a funny one atm. I still think he has a future here. I mentioned earlier in the thread about trying him on the left too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 If Ryan Taylor was fit (which seems unlikely now) I'd advocate a narrow 4-3-3 / 4-3-1-2 against Spurs with HBA and the two Dembas upfront. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 If Ryan Taylor was fit (which seems unlikely now) I'd advocate a narrow 4-3-3 / 4-3-1-2 against Spurs with HBA and the two Dembas upfront. Yep. I'd play that anyway. Mouthwatering prospect of hatem playing reverse balls and slide rule passes to the two destroyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Newcastle is the only place Jonas has ever played on the left, including the argies, and likewise HBA on the right Nah he's played there in France. Not consistently though, for the most part he was on the left for Marseilles and Lyon, (esp at lyon when he was supplying benzema and won the player of the year) Does he track back though!!!!!1111 Edited February 7, 2012 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Lennon is a doubt for the game, Ant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12767 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obertan's best performances this year have come away from home actually. Granted, against a load of shite like Stoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The whole issue is complicated by the injury, is anyone even sure he is still the same player he was before? On what basis? Pards is a knob? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Whereas HBA drops a shoulder/stepover puts a ball in or as he did previously, beats the full back feints and scores. Does a stepover and gives the ball away more like. Couldn't care less how many times he does that, created more chances, got more assists, and scored more goals playing on the wrong side and half the playing time of obertan. to sum Obertan up, his goal the other night clean through 30yards of space between him and anyone other than the keeper...I'm fairly certain everyone had it in the back of their heads he was probably going to fuck it up, but if it was HBA the doubt would've been considerably less I care how many times he loses it because it means we're losing possession which gives the opposition more chance to attack, in fact I can't remember a player for us ever losing possession as much as he did against Brighton in the first half, he was terrible. Not that I rate Obertan much either but I've made my feelings known that I think Ben Arfa has said he doesn't want to play on the right to Pardew, which is why he's behind him , Taylor and Sammi Ameobi in the pecking order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obertan'll never cut it imo. He's utterly fucking clueless when he has time to make a decision in possession. Only a bairn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12452 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obertan'll never cut it imo. He's utterly fucking clueless when he has time to make a decision in possession. Only a bairn He's young but he's had over 100 starts in professional football games, I can let lads like Sammy Ameobi off for being a bit indecisive but by now Obertan really should have some semblance of an idea of what he's going to do with the ball when he gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Manson 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The whole issue is complicated by the injury, is anyone even sure he is still the same player he was before? On what basis? Pards is a knob? Not just a physical recovery from that sort of an injury. Genuinely want Bafra to be a success here and he's been given a run as of late. Pardew mentioned him after the Villa win when discussing attacking threat at the club so he's not exactly being frozen out. Fact is we have the guy tied down to a long term deal so there's plenty of time for him to find full form and fitness again and contribute a few more performances like the Everton game people always compare his game to. If he can get a full pre-season in the summer where we can actually experiment with the team it'll do him the world of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 100 starts fuck me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Obertan'll never cut it imo. He's utterly fucking clueless when he has time to make a decision in possession. Only a bairn He's young but he's had over 100 starts in professional football games, I can let lads like Sammy Ameobi off for being a bit indecisive but by now Obertan really should have some semblance of an idea of what he's going to do with the ball when he gets it. Bit of perspective. over 50 of those were as a teenager for Bordeaux. In the last three years he has had 30 odd appearances including subs. Not exactly loads of experience. This season he's at a new club, getting his first consistent taste of the premiership, is only 22 and has been suffering with a dodgy toe. Given some of the absolute knackers and journeymen we have put up with over the years, its a shame people seem so keen to write him off. He tackles back, (something people jizz at when Jonas does it), he is very fast, has scored and on Sunday did get several crosses into the box. If he had a full head of hair he wouldnt be getting half the stick he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12452 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Bit of perspective. over 50 of those were as a teenager for Bordeaux. In the last three years he has had 30 odd appearances including subs. Not exactly loads of experience. This season he's at a new club, getting his first consistent taste of the premiership, is only 22 and has been suffering with a dodgy toe. Given some of the absolute knackers and journeymen we have put up with over the years, its a shame people seem so keen to write him off. He tackles back, (something people jizz at when Jonas does it), he is very fast, has scored and on Sunday did get several crosses into the box. If he had a full head of hair he wouldnt be getting half the stick he gets. Aye he started getting starts young but that is more of a reason that he should be more assured by now. I agree with you it's a shame players are written off so quick but this is what professional sports are now, Sunday was his best performance for us imo he actually attacked his man and put in some strong tackles whereas normally he's been shirking from tackles and hiding from the ball this lad was the 'next big thing' so now that all that stuff is behind him he should be very relaxed in his football but he still plays as if he's panicking at times. Jonas works like that every game, if Obertan puts in shifts like that every match then I'm sure people will warm to him a bit. I think he's an okay squad player but I think he's much more of a threat coming off the bench (same as Best is) as his pace gives us an outlet late in the game and he seems to be a little better at making decisions when he's against a tired fullback. I'm not writing him off I'm just saying that after 100 professional games he should be more decisive than he is, I put him in a similar bracket that I put Simpson and Ryan Taylor (when he plays in midfield) in that they are capable of playing at this level but I would prefer them to be back-up if we are to kick on to the next level. It's also hard for me to see him as a youngin when he's a month older than me Edited February 7, 2012 by Howay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Aye, I wont argue with him being back up to someone better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well if we're going to look at it like that Hatem is only 2 years older and coming back from a career threatening injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThievingMagpie 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd rather have 10 shit cloggers out on the pitch that run about than 10 Ben Arfa's who muck about with the ball and don't work hard. Ben Arfa needs to get up his work rate, I think it's pretty obvious now that one of the core philosphies of Pardew's team is to always put in a shift and to always be working hard. Ben Arfa has to work hard or else he will not make it into the team as stupid as it sounds. It seems Pardew already has one foot out of the door on him. I have not given up on the lad but I think he really needs to get his head out of his own arse and keep his nose to the grindstone. Obertan while not growing leps and bounds still puts in a canny shift and on Sunday showed that he can make dangerous penetrating runs and sometimes makes a good pass or decision. I think with more playing time he'll get better at making decisions. Ben Arfa, outside of a single goal hasn't shown me anything other than the bare minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well if we're going to look at it like that Hatem is only 2 years older and coming back from a career threatening injury. Problem is position with Ben Arfa. He really wants to be in the middle or just off the striker, which is where most of his followers want him. Its unlikely thats going to happen here so people keep trying to make cases for him on the wing or changing the formation. I have no problem with him battling it out with Obertan or Jonas in training to see who makes the first 11 however Im quite happy that Pardew makes that decision based on what he sees which is best for the team. So far and 1 point off fourth, he seems to be getting it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nortoon 0 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I'd rather have 10 shit cloggers out on the pitch that run about than 10 Ben Arfa's who muck about with the ball and don't work hard. Ben Arfa needs to get up his work rate, I think it's pretty obvious now that one of the core philosphies of Pardew's team is to always put in a shift and to always be working hard. Ben Arfa has to work hard or else he will not make it into the team as stupid as it sounds. It seems Pardew already has one foot out of the door on him. I have not given up on the lad but I think he really needs to get his head out of his own arse and keep his nose to the grindstone. Obertan while not growing leps and bounds still puts in a canny shift and on Sunday showed that he can make dangerous penetrating runs and sometimes makes a good pass or decision. I think with more playing time he'll get better at making decisions. Ben Arfa, outside of a single goal hasn't shown me anything other than the bare minimum. This is basically the view I dont get. Obertan did put in a great shift last time out, but there have been many games he has just been wandering about, pulling out of challenges and walking off the pitch without having broken a sweat. I dont buy him being the 2nd Jonas until he actually puts in that effort for a few consecutive games. Also the Ben Arfa being lazy part, I understand he isnt a physical beast ala Jonas, but ive not seen him walk around lazily, against Blackburn for example he did run back quite a bit when he lost the ball, despite having an awful game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 To be fair Jonas grafts like fuck, so it's a high standard to hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Well if we're going to look at it like that Hatem is only 2 years older and coming back from a career threatening injury. Problem is position with Ben Arfa. He really wants to be in the middle or just off the striker, which is where most of his followers want him. Ben Arfa hasn't actually said that though has he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 It's just conjecture really. I get the impression he'd rather keep off the wings as it always attracts more challenges but there's nothing factual there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Well if we're going to look at it like that Hatem is only 2 years older and coming back from a career threatening injury. Problem is position with Ben Arfa. He really wants to be in the middle or just off the striker, which is where most of his followers want him. Ben Arfa hasn't actually said that though has he? I dont know? I think it was Pardew that said iirc "He doesnt have an appetite for playing on the wing". Ive said before re HBA that sometimes it just doesnt work out for a certain player at a certain club, regardless of talent or past glories, for all sorts of reasons. (See Carrol). The bottom line is, Pardew isnt convinced so he wont get in. That can only lead to the exit door imo. Edited February 7, 2012 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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