NUFC summer transfer activity thread

[Toonpack 6766]

What a load of bollocks

 

You should be looking to improve the team whenever you can not once its too late.

 

You are doing exactly the same with Simpson and Williamson. Simpson has had an excellent season, probably the best of his career, secured us match winning points but I would like an even better player in next season. And you agree.

 

I have simply rolled that same scenario out to Jonas.

 

You set the premis, of the list of players I could only pick two who I thought could be realistically improved upon. Quite simple really.

 

You're "rolling it out to Jonas" ahead of other areas of need is stupidity.

[Toonpack 6766]

You know, the thing you have happily managed to do with Williamson and Simpson.

 

If you could improve three players in the team next year, who would you replace?

 

Thick as mince you say?

 

This is like arguing with a concussed amoeba !!

 

I haven't happily anything, you set the premis. Given the choice from your list I could see improving on Williamson and Simpson is achievable and realistic (and no I'm not saying it's a must - I don't have the problem with Simpson some do for example). My third choice (or area of need) is cover for Ba/Cisse.

[ZoomVT 0]

I can see both arguments.

 

Simpson and Willo need to be improved upon. Fact.

Jonas has been mint for us, hard worker, loves the club, team player, and probably an ace in the dressing room. Fact. Is he a world beater and the best in his position? well thats not quite a fact. He fits great in our system and allows other players to do well; are there better players out there that could do the job? yes, that we can afford or get? well probably not. Or at least not now and not one that can walk into the starting 11, but we could get a young one to learn and put a little pressure on the position.

Should finding a young replacement for Jonas be a priority? I dont think so. I think it would be a good bit of business but not a priority; i think we need to address depth to cover for the 2/3 spots that go to the ACN. We cant afford to not have a striker while the dembas are out so I would say thats our 3rd priority.

After that, a midfielder that could pressure Jonas and/or get a start when Tiote is unavailable would be fantastic. I know its not the same player but Pardiola would have to adjust the system as that is the most likely scenario.

 

We dont have the funds to find depth for Tiote and a replacement-in-training for Jonas.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I can see both arguments.

 

Simpson and Willo need to be improved upon. Fact.

Jonas has been mint for us, hard worker, loves the club, team player, and probably an ace in the dressing room. Fact. Is he a world beater and the best in his position? well thats not quite a fact. He fits great in our system and allows other players to do well; are there better players out there that could do the job? yes, that we can afford or get? well probably not. Or at least not now and not one that can walk into the starting 11, but we could get a young one to learn and put a little pressure on the position.

Should finding a young replacement for Jonas be a priority? I dont think so. I think it would be a good bit of business but not a priority; i think we need to address depth to cover for the 2/3 spots that go to the ACN. We cant afford to not have a striker while the dembas are out so I would say thats our 3rd priority.

After that, a midfielder that could pressure Jonas and/or get a start when Tiote is unavailable would be fantastic. I know its not the same player but Pardiola would have to adjust the system as that is the most likely scenario.

 

We dont have the funds to find depth for Tiote and a replacement-in-training for Jonas.

 

I dont disagree with a lot of what you say and I understand about cover for other positions being important, I was simply trying to look at it a different way.

 

As your point about not being able to afford a "better" Jonas or one who can "walk straight into the squad", I think we have to say thats not strictly true any more when you consider Tiote, Cabaye and even Cisse. Our recruitment people have said on numerous occasions that we now do our homework and consider all these things in a lot more detail so that we can ensure they settle and fit in straight away.

[The Fish 8950]

I dont disagree with a lot of what you say and I understand about cover for other positions being important, I was simply trying to look at it a different way.

 

As your point about not being able to afford a "better" Jonas or one who can "walk straight into the squad", I think we have to say thats not strictly true any more when you consider Tiote, Cabaye and even Cisse. Our recruitment people have said on numerous occasions that we now do our homework and consider all these things in a lot more detail so that we can ensure they settle and fit in straight away.

 

Not being funny CT, but you obviously have an anti-Jonas agenda and have pushed it despite evidence to the contrary. He's not just had a good season for him (as is the case with Simpson and Perch) he's had a good season. He's been key to our success with his versatility and endeavour. He's played all up and down the left hand side (often in the same game), he's played a completely unusual role and looks like he's played there all his life.

 

He's scored a couple of cracking goals, and got a few assists, but the measure of the player's success this season has to be how important he's been to the side. His comfort and class on the ball has meant Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa etc. have been able to hand off the ball to him and either he beats a player with a shimmy, a quick release pass or simply with a burst of pace.

 

He's not the best player in the team but he's been one of the most consistent performers all year and that you're asking for his replacement says more about you and your agenda, than it does about him.

 

fwiw I think Abeid will fit very nicely into Jonas' current central role but he's not ready yet and given we've got a clever, capable, earnest player performing well, why the fuck would we throw caution to the wind and seek to usurp him?

[ZoomVT 0]

I dont disagree with a lot of what you say and I understand about cover for other positions being important, I was simply trying to look at it a different way.

 

As your point about not being able to afford a "better" Jonas or one who can "walk straight into the squad", I think we have to say thats not strictly true any more when you consider Tiote, Cabaye and even Cisse. Our recruitment people have said on numerous occasions that we now do our homework and consider all these things in a lot more detail so that we can ensure they settle and fit in straight away.

 

well, if you agree that cover is important and you still think that replacing Jonas should be a priority then I would have to agree with others and say that it sounds more like a personal agenda than an objective view of our transfer priorities.

 

Yes, our scouting team could do wonders, but should they be focusing their energy on finding the right striker to fill in for the dembas or looking for a jonas replacement that might even get beat to the starting 11? I think their time is better spent addressing NEEDS instead of WANTS.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Not being funny CT, but you obviously have an anti-Jonas agenda and have pushed it despite evidence to the contrary. He's not just had a good season for him (as is the case with Simpson and Perch) he's had a good season. He's been key to our success with his versatility and endeavour. He's played all up and down the left hand side (often in the same game), he's played a completely unusual role and looks like he's played there all his life.

 

He's scored a couple of cracking goals, and got a few assists, but the measure of the player's success this season has to be how important he's been to the side. His comfort and class on the ball has meant Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa etc. have been able to hand off the ball to him and either he beats a player with a shimmy, a quick release pass or simply with a burst of pace.

 

He's not the best player in the team but he's been one of the most consistent performers all year and that you're asking for his replacement says more about you and your agenda, than it does about him.

 

fwiw I think Abeid will fit very nicely into Jonas' current central role but he's not ready yet and given we've got a clever, capable, earnest player performing well, why the fuck would we throw caution to the wind and seek to usurp him?

 

I know what you were trying to say.

 

 

I dont think I have ever tried to hide my anti Jonas position (which to be fair was born out of his lacking creative prowess as part of a 442).

 

I have also given him credit for his work rate and defensive duties this year.

 

none of that however stops us improving that position with a better player (if there is one available). The 443 works best when Cabaye is the player going forward out of the three. He is the better around the box with his link up play and his Nolan like goal poaching instincts.

 

I would rather have two cabayes and one Tiote so I see no problem in bringing in another Cabaye type player if there is one out there.

[The Fish 8950]

I know what you were trying to say.

 

 

I dont think I have ever tried to hide my anti Jonas position (which to be fair was born out of his lacking creative prowess as part of a 442).

 

I have also given him credit for his work rate and defensive duties this year.

 

none of that however stops us improving that position with a better player (if there is one available). The 443 works best when Cabaye is the player going forward out of the three. He is the better around the box with his link up play and his Nolan like goal poaching instincts.

 

I would rather have two cabayes and one Tiote so I see no problem in bringing in another Cabaye type player if there is one out there.

 

Cabaye is still the player going forward, Jonas has been picking the ball up from Tiote or the back four and handing it off to Yohan or Hatem. The problem with two Cabayes is that you need a terrier, a water carrier (or whatever you want to call it) in a midfield three.

 

You really should try to be objective because your recent up-turn in the football side of things is in danger of being undone by this crusade.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

well, if you agree that cover is important and you still think that replacing Jonas should be a priority then I would have to agree with others and say that it sounds more like a personal agenda than an objective view of our transfer priorities.

 

Yes, our scouting team could do wonders, but should they be focusing their energy on finding the right striker to fill in for the dembas or looking for a jonas replacement that might even get beat to the starting 11? I think their time is better spent addressing NEEDS instead of WANTS.

 

I didnt say it was

 

I was commenting on the first 11 only and which of those I would personally like replacements for if possible. I totally agree thats not the priority for the squad as a whole.

[angrysteve 0]

Would bringing in someone to challenge Jonas for his place in the side not just push your Shaney-boy even further down the pecking order CT?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Cabaye is still the player going forward, Jonas has been picking the ball up from Tiote or the back four and handing it off to Yohan or Hatem. The problem with two Cabayes is that you need a terrier, a water carrier (or whatever you want to call it) in a midfield three.

 

You really should try to be objective because your recent up-turn in the football side of things is in danger of being undone by this crusade.

 

Dont go all bitchy on me fish, its boring.

 

Im quite happy and always have been to stand by my opinions on Newcastle.

 

Its about opinions not facts.

 

The reason I said two cabayes is simply because in my opinion he has it all. He can be the terrier, the long range passer, the short inter change player racing forward, the poacher and the goal scorer.

 

I would rather have two like him than Jonas who imo is much more limited in what he can do as part of that set up.

 

If you dont agree thats fine.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Would bringing in someone to challenge Jonas for his place in the side not just push your Shaney-boy even further down the pecking order CT?

 

Im sure it would but the sides took massive steps forward as the season has gone on, particularly since the introduction of the 433.

 

At the start of the season in a 442 Jonas was offering little in the way of creativity down the left and Obertan similar down the right. Now we are a team that can create from anywhere.

 

I have no problem with that and if we out grow some players so be it. We also have Marveaux back who will probably block Shanes way through. As he is only young it might even be worth sending him out on loan next season.

[The Fish 8950]

Dont go all bitchy on me fish, its boring.

 

Im quite happy and always have been to stand by my opinions on Newcastle.

 

Its about opinions not facts.

 

The reason I said two cabayes is simply because in my opinion he has it all. He can be the terrier, the long range passer, the short inter change player racing forward, the poacher and the goal scorer.

 

I would rather have two like him than Jonas who imo is much more limited in what he can do as part of that set up.

 

If you dont agree thats fine.

Love it when you try to patronise people and take the high ground.

 

You're right of course, it is about opinions, but opinions are useless if they're based on nothing more than a dislike of a player, rather than facts. Facts are, Jonas isn't the 3rd worst player in the side nor should we be looking to spend money on replacing him when there are several key areas which need either strengthening or replacements found.

 

In my opinion we need:

1. 1st choice LB
   
2. depth in defence (2-3 players)
   
3. 3rd and 4th choice strikers
   
4. strong sub-'keeper
   
5. cover for Tiote
   

 

After that is when we need to start looking at the other midifield areas

[Howay 12447]

Anyone know what type of midfield role this Jacob Butterfield lad plays? or if he's any good for that matter.

[Ayatollah Hermione 12736]

Anyone know what type of midfield role this Jacob Butterfield lad plays? or if he's any good for that matter.

 

Was just about to ask that.

[Baggio 0]

http://www.sabotagetimes.com/football-sport/newcastle-united-why-jacob-butterfield-is-the-missing-piece-of-the-puzzle/

[Andrew 4183]

That was quite interesting

[Park Life 70]

What a load of bollocks

 

You should be looking to improve the team whenever you can not once its too late.

 

You are doing exactly the same with Simpson and Williamson. Simpson has had an excellent season, probably the best of his career, secured us match winning points but I would like an even better player in next season. And you agree.

 

 

I have simply rolled that same scenario out to Jonas.

 

Jonas has a lot more strings to his bow however.

 

I know where you're coming from as in a lot of games he spends a lot of time firefighting rather than being an attacking threat. Is that his fault though??

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Love it when you try to patronise people and take the high ground.

 

You're right of course, it is about opinions, but opinions are useless if they're based on nothing more than a dislike of a player, rather than facts. Facts are, Jonas isn't the 3rd worst player in the side nor should we be looking to spend money on replacing him when there are several key areas which need either strengthening or replacements found.

 

In my opinion we need:

1. 1st choice LB
   
2. depth in defence (2-3 players)
   
3. 3rd and 4th choice strikers
   
4. strong sub-'keeper
   
5. cover for Tiote
   

 

After that is when we need to start looking at the other midifield areas

 

 

Re the three underlined bits.

 

I think you had patronising covered in your first post.

Ive stated clearly what my opinions are based on and you've chosen to ignore them.

If Jonas isnt the third worst player who is?

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Jonas has a lot more strings to his bow however.

 

I know where you're coming from as in a lot of games he spends a lot of time firefighting rather than being an attacking threat. Is that his fault though??

 

I think hes done well this season as has Simpson. But another Cabaye type player would offer us more options. Of course I still like Guthrie but I think he will be away.

[The Fish 8950]

Re the three underlined bits.

 

I think you had patronising covered in your first post.

Ive stated clearly what my opinions are based on and you've chosen to ignore them.

If Jonas isnt the third worst player who is?

I'm allowed to patronise, I'm better than you.

I have chosen to ignore them because you have decided to launch a crusade against a player who isn't a concern.

Rob Elliot, Tamas Kadar, Alan Smith, Xisco, Peter Lovenkrands, Gabirel Obertan, Dan Gosling... I'd get rid of any of these before Jonas.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

I'm allowed to patronise, I'm better than you.

I have chosen to ignore them because you have decided to launch a crusade against a player who isn't a concern.

Rob Elliot, Tamas Kadar, Alan Smith, Xisco, Peter Lovenkrands, Gabirel Obertan, Dan Gosling... I'd get rid of any of these before Jonas.

 

I knew you would bottle it The conversation was about the first 11.

[The Fish 8950]

I knew you would bottle it The conversation was about the first 11.

 

Bottled it, behave yourself Timmy Tubster

 

You didn't ask me that. You asked me who is our 3rd worst player and wasn't Obertan 1st choice right wing for the first part of the season, hasn't he made 23 apps in the league? Isn't Rob Elliot 2nd choice 'keeper?

 

The problem lies in your assertion that we should get rid of Jonas. Why? We don't play with an 11 man squad, it's about strength in depth. You get rid of Jonas and we lose one our best performers because you want him to be Ryan Giggs. You have based your opinion on a gut dislike for him and that's not a worthwhile reason. You were advocating dropping Jonas for Ferguson despite the lad clearly not being ready for the rigors of week in week out football.

 

Jonas adds so much more to the side, but you don't value that contribution.

[tooner 243]

jonas doesn't get enough credit iyam, when he played in front of enrique he helped enrique to look like a world beater, now santon is playing the same area and he continually looks excellent, i don't think its any accident this is the case, jonas is solid defensively and allows the FB to get forward.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Bottled it, behave yourself Timmy Tubster

 

You didn't ask me that. You asked me who is our 3rd worst player and wasn't Obertan 1st choice right wing for the first part of the season, hasn't he made 23 apps in the league? Isn't Rob Elliot 2nd choice 'keeper?

 

The problem lies in your assertion that we should get rid of Jonas. Why? We don't play with an 11 man squad, it's about strength in depth. You get rid of Jonas and we lose one our best performers because you want him to be Ryan Giggs. You have based your opinion on a gut dislike for him and that's not a worthwhile reason. You were advocating dropping Jonas for Ferguson despite the lad clearly not being ready for the rigors of week in week out football.

 

Jonas adds so much more to the side, but you don't value that contribution.

 

Chich, Chick, Chick, Chicken.........

 

This is what we were talking about

 

http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/32493-nufc-summer-transfer-activity-thread/page__view__findpost__p__1074052

 

If you just jumped in without checking then fair enough, apology accepted.