mackem messageboard gold

[The Fish 8947]

6 minutes ago, adios said:

I think we agree on most of that tbf.

Whatever happens, they'll have at least a season of miserable away days watching terrible football at the likes of Fleetwood and Gillingham, in front of a handful of fans who're mumbling "6-in-a-row" chants with increasing despondency. 

If Benitez stays we'll rarely even give them the joy of watching us get thrashed by someone.

As has been said before, I'd feel bad for the club, the employees and the fans, if they weren't unrepentantly dickish whenever we faced trouble.

[The Fish 8947]

3 minutes ago, David Kelly said:

a third relegation looks more probable next season

Could. You. Imagine.

[adios 717]

Here's to another 6 in a row. 

 

FTM.

[The Fish 8947]

17 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think we'll spend because the club actually has the money to do so, not because I expect Ashley is going to dig deep for £40m.

I don't think we'll spend because having money hasn't loosened his purse strings in the past. We had plenty of dinero the summer we finished 5th. Plenty of money in January 2017. Plenty of money in January 2018. 

[Alex 30239]

2 minutes ago, David Kelly said:

Blackburn went down with more points than the mackems could get if they won all of the remaining games.  Wigan also went down with 11 more points than the mackems currently have and I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Wigan had only just been promoted the season before.  Both of those clubs (even with Blackburn being owned by Venky's) always looked better suited for a promotion challenge than the tramps currently do.  Of course anything could happen with their ownership over the summer that could change things dramatically and you only have to look at Burton when they were promoted or Shrewsbury this season to see that in that league it's not uncommon to see someone come out of nowhere to at least challenge for promotion.  But with the way things are looking like heading for them at the moment, a third relegation looks more probable next season than a promotion.

Fair points. Blackburn had 51 points, only went down on goal difference (-12 which isn't bad at all) and won 12 games. Even Wigan won 10, had 42 points and an ok-ish -17 goal difference. Sunderland have only won 6 games

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

47 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said:

The pioneers of the mock funeral

 

 

 

 

They've got the cheek to slate Steve Wraith when that is infinitely worse 

 

 

Fucking hell man.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rayvin 4949]

6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

I don't think we'll spend because having money hasn't loosened his purse strings in the past. We had plenty of dinero the summer we finished 5th. Plenty of money in January 2017. Plenty of money in January 2018. 

 

Yeah I know that's the prevailing opinion. I stand by my thinking on it.

 

But all I'm saying here is that NUFC spending £40m from money it actually has is not the same as Ashley putting in £40m himself, which is what Short would have had to do in January.

[The Fish 8947]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Yeah I know that's the prevailing opinion. I stand by my thinking on it.

 

But all I'm saying here is that NUFC spending £40m from money it actually has is not the same as Ashley putting in £40m himself, which is what Short would have had to do in January.

No, you're right, it's not the same. One is to improve and show ambition, the other is an attempt to prevent a calamitous relegation. One is to build an extension on your house, the other is to put a fire out.

Which of those do you think is more likely to stir a man into action? Which is more stupid to ignore? Even Ashley spent money when it looked like we were going down under McClaren. That Short didn't is incredible.

[Rayvin 4949]

7 minutes ago, The Fish said:

No, you're right, it's not the same. One is to improve and show ambition, the other is an attempt to prevent a calamitous relegation. One is to build an extension on your house, the other is to put a fire out.

Which of those do you think is more likely to stir a man into action? Which is more stupid to ignore? Even Ashley spent money when it looked like we were going down under McClaren. That Short didn't is incredible.

 

Um, no. The criticism I got over my feelings on this were predominantly based around the notion that Ashley 'gambled' by not spending in Jan '17, which could have cost us promotion, that he did so again in Summer '17 at the risk of relegation, and that he did so again Jan '18 at the risk of relegation. This summer, if we don't spend, it's at the risk of relegation. Not at the expense of ambition. I'm fairly sure that's most people's position on this. Even if it is expressed through the prism of 'Rafa will leave if he doesn't 'show ambition', and we will get relegated'.

 

So I would say they're both looking at the same thing, albeit the mackems have a more horrific relegation than the one we would have faced.

 

He did spend money on the McClaren scenario true, that's a decent counter point. Although he would have made that back if we stayed up. Short, had he kept Sunderland up, would not have made the £30m back. If anything, he would have had to keep spending.

[Ayatollah Hermione 12736]

Think they'll be a big draw for the better players at that level if, and it's a big if, they can get some semblance of sanity in the summer i.e. shifting players off the books quickly, new owners in place and the scouting network looking at potential signings now. Thankfully, that seems completely beyond them.

[David Kelly 1115]

6 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

Think they'll be a big draw for the better players at that level if, and it's a big if, they can get some semblance of sanity in the summer i.e. shifting players off the books quickly, new owners in place and the scouting network looking at potential signings now. Thankfully, that seems completely beyond them.

You would have thought they'd have been in a similar position last summer.

[Ayatollah Hermione 12736]

13 minutes ago, David Kelly said:

You would have thought they'd have been in a similar position last summer.

 

Tbf, they signed McGeady, Grabban (on loan, granted) and McManaman who you’d all look at and expect to be good signings for that division but the money clearly dried up immediately once it was obvious the likes of Cattermole, Rodwell and O’Shea were going nowhere.

Edited April 4, 2018 by Ayatollah Hermione

[The Fish 8947]

48 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Um, no. The criticism I got over my feelings on this were predominantly based around the notion that Ashley 'gambled' by not spending in Jan '17, which could have cost us promotion, that he did so again in Summer '17 at the risk of relegation, and that he did so again Jan '18 at the risk of relegation. This summer, if we don't spend, it's at the risk of relegation. Not at the expense of ambition. I'm fairly sure that's most people's position on this. Even if it is expressed through the prism of 'Rafa will leave if he doesn't 'show ambition', and we will get relegated'.

 

So I would say they're both looking at the same thing, albeit the mackems have a more horrific relegation than the one we would have faced.

 

He did spend money on the McClaren scenario true, that's a decent counter point. Although he would have made that back if we stayed up. Short, had he kept Sunderland up, would not have made the £30m back. If anything, he would have had to keep spending.

Didn't you say that should we sign Kenedy and Dubravka an investment of £30-£40m would be enough. That to me suggests you think this club is safe from relegation with the side we see now. +/- 1 striker or 2-3 players. I'd say we'd need a lot more than that next season. Anything we spend needs to be in line with the rest of the teams that stay up, and whatever the promoted clubs spend. It's been a fairly disappointing season for the majority of the league, even teams like Man Utd and Spurs will want to spend to improve on 17/18. What do you think teams like Southampton, Swansea, West Ham, Watford will be spending? £30m? or closer to £60m? Bournemouth spent £20m on a centre back last year, but if they don't spend again, they'll be one of the weakest sides in the top flight. If Villa come up, they'll spend. Wolves will spend. 

£30-£40m won't be near enough, gross or net, especially as we've no real saleable assets who'll pull in £30m on their own. None that Benitez would be ok with releasing as he was with Sissoko.

[Rayvin 4949]

7 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Didn't you say that should we sign Kenedy and Dubravka an investment of £30-£40m would be enough. That to me suggests you think this club is safe from relegation with the side we see now. +/- 1 striker or 2-3 players. I'd say we'd need a lot more than that next season. Anything we spend needs to be in line with the rest of the teams that stay up, and whatever the promoted clubs spend. It's been a fairly disappointing season for the majority of the league, even teams like Man Utd and Spurs will want to spend to improve on 17/18. What do you think teams like Southampton, Swansea, West Ham, Watford will be spending? £30m? or closer to £60m? Bournemouth spent £20m on a centre back last year, but if they don't spend again, they'll be one of the weakest sides in the top flight. If Villa come up, they'll spend. Wolves will spend. 

£30-£40m won't be near enough, gross or net, especially as we've no real saleable assets who'll pull in £30m on their own. None that Benitez would be ok with releasing as he was with Sissoko.

 

My £40m includes those two. So for me it's those two plus a striker will be enough to ensure we're not in a relegation fight. Don't buy this idea that every club always needs to spend crazy money to stay up. Burnley's net spend last year was -£15m. Only 5 teams spent more than £40m last season and they're all top ten teams. We have a young team being developed by a world class manager - we need to spend enough that this manager stays, IMO. And my view is that Ashley will see this, and will recognise that failing to do so will see us lose said manager, and risk relegation. I think we would be fine against relegation next season with if all three loanees were signed permanently (assuming Slimani is actually any good). I think £40m+ net is required to achieve this.

 

I think the teams you mentioned will be net spending about what they did last season. Nowhere near net £60m. Villa and Wolves won't net spend £60m either.

 

But again, different situation to Sunderland. All those clubs get £100m a year from the PL. Sunderland would get what, £10m? For Short's £30m? Throwing good money after bad. It's just a bad decision.

[Howay 12447]

1 hour ago, David Kelly said:

Blackburn went down with more points than the mackems could get if they won all of the remaining games.  Wigan also went down with 11 more points than the mackems currently have and I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Wigan had only just been promoted the season before.  Both of those clubs (even with Blackburn being owned by Venky's) always looked better suited for a promotion challenge than the tramps currently do.  Of course anything could happen with their ownership over the summer that could change things dramatically and you only have to look at Burton when they were promoted or Shrewsbury this season to see that in that league it's not uncommon to see someone come out of nowhere to at least challenge for promotion.  But with the way things are looking like heading for them at the moment, a third relegation looks more probable next season than a promotion.

Spot on, they’ve won about 11 games out of their last 70 or so league games the club is fucking rotten. 

While they could turn it round by doing things like AH said it’s still a big ask, the most likely outcome at the moment is stabilization in League One unless they get put into administration. I think a promotion bid is a bit much for next year as the group of players they have still think haven’t found their level yet, it’s a real possibility that most of their squad are average League One standard. They keep banging on about how great their youth are but the ones that played this season definitely aren’t Championship level. Coleman is a shit manager as well, he’s not going to suddenly turn it all around and reinvigorate the team next season. 

[Meenzer 13965]

4 hours ago, essembeeofsunderland said:

She'd Wed continue to rip the piss on owlestalk.

 

[The Fish 8947]

39 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

My £40m includes those two. So for me it's those two plus a striker will be enough to ensure we're not in a relegation fight. Don't buy this idea that every club always needs to spend crazy money to stay up. Burnley's net spend last year was -£15m. Only 5 teams spent more than £40m last season and they're all top ten teams. We have a young team being developed by a world class manager - we need to spend enough that this manager stays, IMO. And my view is that Ashley will see this, and will recognise that failing to do so will see us lose said manager, and risk relegation. I think we would be fine against relegation next season with if all three loanees were signed permanently (assuming Slimani is actually any good). I think £40m+ net is required to achieve this.

 

I think the teams you mentioned will be net spending about what they did last season. Nowhere near net £60m. Villa and Wolves won't net spend £60m either.

 

But again, different situation to Sunderland. All those clubs get £100m a year from the PL. Sunderland would get what, £10m? For Short's £30m? Throwing good money after bad. It's just a bad decision.

And this season we've seen the biggest relegation scrum for ages. I'm confindent teams like Southampton will spend significant amounts of money to ensure they're not in the shit as they have been this season. 

I'm not wholly confident Ashley will be adverse to gambling that he can spend little and still keep Benitez. I also think the club needs to buy a striker, a number 10, a midfielder, a fullback or two. The first two in that list will surely cost us north of £35m alone.

Throwing good money after bad is usually a bad idea, but failing to spend and seeing their club fall into the 3rd tier of football is a much, much badderer idea.

[Rayvin 4949]

Just now, The Fish said:

And this season we've seen the biggest relegation scrum for ages. I'm confindent teams like Southampton will spend significant amounts of money to ensure they're not in the shit as they have been this season. 

I'm not wholly confident Ashley will be adverse to gambling that he can spend little and still keep Benitez. I also think the club needs to buy a striker, a number 10, a midfielder, a fullback or two. The first two in that list will surely cost us north of £35m alone.

Throwing good money after bad is usually a bad idea, but failing to spend and seeing their club fall into the 3rd tier of football is a much, much badderer idea.

 

Leaving the NUFC stuff to the side for now, since it'll inevitably come up later, I totally get Short's position on this. At some point you have to cut your losses - he's thrown fucking loads of money at Sunderland over the years and they just keep sinking. He has a high interest loan of what, £80m or something, falling due in 2019... it sounds like he's propping them up to the tune of £500k/week anyway... They are fucked. He isn't going to save them. He'd be fucking mad to do so.

[The Fish 8947]

16 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Leaving the NUFC stuff to the side for now, since it'll inevitably come up later, I totally get Short's position on this. At some point you have to cut your losses - he's thrown fucking loads of money at Sunderland over the years and they just keep sinking. He has a high interest loan of what, £80m or something, falling due in 2019... it sounds like he's propping them up to the tune of £500k/week anyway... They are fucked. He isn't going to save them. He'd be fucking mad to do so.

Cutting and running is fine, but he's cut and hasn't run. He could have invested enough to at least keep them up, and look to cut his losses this summer. As it stands it's costing him a fortune to keep it running, there's no money coming in from player sales, tv, or commercial, a League 1 club with huge external debt won't attract suitors. He won't save them now, but he could have saved them (or at least kept them in reaching distance of rescue) by spending in January. He didn't, and now they're entirely fucked.

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

Been pointed out before but they're the ones with the new(-ish) flatpack stadium (with the name stolen from elsewhere) and they even needed a fucking poll to decide on their official nickname such is their lack of identity. They're only really known for being near Newcastle which they don't exactly help themselves with since they can only identify in relation to us anyway. Not sure I believe many of them who say they'd rather have the 6 in a row than be two divisions above (which we all but are now) but the fact they're even prepared to say it defines how small time they are. They can get to fuck tbh. Know a couple of decent lads who support them but the club itself and the support of the paedo shows how 'classy' they really are (one bloke who didn't even go to the game who punched a horse defines us though ). Enjoy Burton (again) and Accrington tbh

That is an excellent post.

[ewerk 26168]

46 minutes ago, The Fish said:

Cutting and running is fine, but he's cut and hasn't run. He could have invested enough to at least keep them up, and look to cut his losses this summer. As it stands it's costing him a fortune to keep it running, there's no money coming in from player sales, tv, or commercial, a League 1 club with huge external debt won't attract suitors. He won't save them now, but he could have saved them (or at least kept them in reaching distance of rescue) by spending in January. He didn't, and now they're entirely fucked.

I think he’s hoped to have the club sold by now, the idea was to cut costs as much as they could to at least give themselves a chance of attracting a buyer. I think he gambled on Coleman getting more out of the existing squad than he has and relying on the manager to keep them up.

[Alex 30239]

1 hour ago, essembeeofsunderland said:

That is an excellent post.

Ifangyu. Meanwhile no Mag threads on rtg

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3181]

Can’t sleep so been having a chuckle at rtg. They really haven’t got a clue have they.

      1. Sack Coleman, apparently he is the reason they are shit. He hasn’t miraculously organised the defence and they don’t understand how they’re no longer scoring.

      2. Bring back micmac.

      3. Hire SKP.

      4. James Corden is going to buy them.

      5. Or Quinny.

      6. Or Nissan.

I think they are in the bargaining stage of grief now. The sooner they move on the better it will be for them.

[Howay 12447]

I love that all of a sudden Mick McCarthy is a fucking hero to them, when in reality they chased him out during their miraculous 15 point season. 

I genuinely hope they never return to the PL, quite honestly it’s not their level imo. They have 2, maybe 3 of the top 5 worst seasons in the history of the top flight and this was accomplished during the PL era. What’s the highest they’ve managed in the PL? 7th? Other than that and probably a top ten finish under Bruce they’ve battled the drop in every season they’ve been in the league. They can moan about Short but the bloke has poured money in for a decade, think Niall Quinn dodges a lot of flak here as he was in a role which oversaw the spunking of a huge amount of money and they’ve spiralled ever since.

 

I know the mackems love to see themselves as some beloved club to fans of other sides but in actual fact many people saw them as the shit that wouldn’t flush for a fucking decade. They had a bit of a link to Man Utd for a few year due to Keane and gleefully taking random shite from Man Utds fringes like O’Shea and Brown, then for some bizarre reason they did the poznan after losing to Man Utd when Aguero thudded in the late winner against QPR and now the man Utd fans seem to get a bit of a laugh from the tramps plight. 

 

In short, they’re a trampy, horrible club that seem to only come up on the radar of other fan bases when they randomly give them grief in their hope to get some reflected glory from another teams success. I’m fucking buzzing to see everything catch up to them and they’re now getting exactly what they deserve, I hope they keep sinking like a stone. 

 

I hope they do approach Mick McCarthy, he snubs them, the external debtors pull the plug and plunge them into administration, and they end up bottom of League One. 

 

PS I was wanking while I wrote this

[The Mighty Hog 331]

6 hours ago, Howay said:

 

 

PS I was wanking while I wrote this