Renton 17629 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I actually think that Allardyce has a lot more to him than just long ball and he seems to be quite willing to try out new ideas also. Regarding what Leazes said earlier, I don't think anyone is necessarily obsessed with getting a foreign manager, rather they are concerned that Shepherd is obsessed with getting a British one. 73769[/snapback] Exactly. We should be looking for the best candidate regardless of nationality. We got Souness in the first place because we were only going to appoint someone British. 73772[/snapback] Agree that nationality should be irrelevant, however, I'm somewhat less convinced that Shepherd insists the manager has to be British anyway. This seems to be based largely around his idiotic "geordie" comments - however, SHepherd is always spouting shit I suspect he doesn't necessarily really agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] If Souness does go now/or in the coming week(s), he hasn't had a proper chance to prove himself really. Any manager, regardless of who they are needs at least one full season in charge to do this. Of course, that ignores what most of us initially thought, i.e. he should never have been appointed in the first place. By getting rid now, without giving him a decent chance, Shepherd will be proving what a fuck up he made in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I actually think that Allardyce has a lot more to him than just long ball and he seems to be quite willing to try out new ideas also. Regarding what Leazes said earlier, I don't think anyone is necessarily obsessed with getting a foreign manager, rather they are concerned that Shepherd is obsessed with getting a British one. 73769[/snapback] Exactly. We should be looking for the best candidate regardless of nationality. We got Souness in the first place because we were only going to appoint someone British. 73772[/snapback] Agree that nationality should be irrelevant, however, I'm somewhat less convinced that Shepherd insists the manager has to be British anyway. This seems to be based largely around his idiotic "geordie" comments - however, SHepherd is always spouting shit I suspect he doesn't necessarily really agree with. 73774[/snapback] What non-British managers were approached/considered last time then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Agree that nationality should be irrelevant, however, I'm somewhat less convinced that Shepherd insists the manager has to be British anyway. This seems to be based largely around his idiotic "geordie" comments - however, SHepherd is always spouting shit I suspect he doesn't necessarily really agree with. 73774[/snapback] Ah, but who was allegedly on our shortlist? All British. I honestly believe (and I could easily be wrong) that the relationship with Gullit was so poor that they've been put off appointing someone who isn't British. I'm not saying I want a foreign coach, I'm just saying I would rather we at least looked at it as a serious option, which I personally don't believe the board will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3183 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] If Souness does go now/or in the coming week(s), he hasn't had a proper chance to prove himself really. Any manager, regardless of who they are needs at least one full season in charge to do this. Of course, that ignores what most of us initially thought, i.e. he should never have been appointed in the first place. By getting rid now, without giving him a decent chance, Shepherd will be proving what a fuck up he made in the first place. 73775[/snapback] I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17629 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I actually think that Allardyce has a lot more to him than just long ball and he seems to be quite willing to try out new ideas also. Regarding what Leazes said earlier, I don't think anyone is necessarily obsessed with getting a foreign manager, rather they are concerned that Shepherd is obsessed with getting a British one. 73769[/snapback] Exactly. We should be looking for the best candidate regardless of nationality. We got Souness in the first place because we were only going to appoint someone British. 73772[/snapback] Agree that nationality should be irrelevant, however, I'm somewhat less convinced that Shepherd insists the manager has to be British anyway. This seems to be based largely around his idiotic "geordie" comments - however, SHepherd is always spouting shit I suspect he doesn't necessarily really agree with. 73774[/snapback] What non-British managers were approached/considered last time then? 73777[/snapback] Who knows, does anyone really know what happened? And even if there were no European managers approached, does it prove anything? Were any top class European managers available then (I can't remember tbh). Maybe even Shepherd will learn from his mistakes, I really hope he does this time - surely it is his last chance to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ally 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Allardyce would be alright, but I feel we could do better. If he did come he'd bring modern training, fitness regimes etc, theres loads of that going on at Bolton. Seems to have a good coaching staff too, the likes of Sammy Lee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] If Souness does go now/or in the coming week(s), he hasn't had a proper chance to prove himself really. Any manager, regardless of who they are needs at least one full season in charge to do this. Of course, that ignores what most of us initially thought, i.e. he should never have been appointed in the first place. By getting rid now, without giving him a decent chance, Shepherd will be proving what a fuck up he made in the first place. 73775[/snapback] Sorry, but in my eyes Souness had more than a decent chance to prove himself. Of course you have to be sorry because some of the injuries he has to cope with. But in my eyes a manager shouldn't just be judged by what he is reaching with his first team, but also how he copes with difficult situations. Injuries are no excuse for the team he is sending out absolutely clueless. There is no apparent game plan (except 'frustrating the opposition' - and the own fans). No tactics. Just simple 70s style long ball game and waiting for a goal poacher to convert them. I'm warming to the idea of Allardyce as he looks to me in fact as the most forward thinking manager. If he is not available now (what I somewhat doubt because of the situation Bolton are currently in) then I would give Roeder the job until the end of the season and give a new proven manager a fresh chance without the burden of taking over in midseason ... especially as there are probably no suitable managers available now (i.e. the likes of Hitzfeld and Hiddink). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] If Souness does go now/or in the coming week(s), he hasn't had a proper chance to prove himself really. Any manager, regardless of who they are needs at least one full season in charge to do this. Of course, that ignores what most of us initially thought, i.e. he should never have been appointed in the first place. By getting rid now, without giving him a decent chance, Shepherd will be proving what a fuck up he made in the first place. 73775[/snapback] I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What non-British managers were approached/considered last time then? 73777[/snapback] O'Leary's about as far as FS went down that road last time, and although we can't know for sure there would surely have been some talk if he'd interviewed any continental managers? Maybe the horrible truth is a foreign conspiracy against Newcastle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17629 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. 73782[/snapback] If Shepherd appoints Peter Reid, how much time would you afford him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. 73782[/snapback] If Shepherd appoints Peter Reid, how much time would you afford him? 73790[/snapback] The man who engineered Sunderland's demise? Job for life tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17629 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. 73791[/snapback] Didn't ManU come 2nd in the league in the first year Ferguson was in charge, a massive improvement? I don't think anyone is saying you have to win things straight away, but you should reasonably expect the club doesn't go into a nosedive, especially when you are given £50M to spend..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 If we are seriously looking to get rid of Souness in the next week or so, then the board should be meeting every fucking day to sound out targets and a plan of action for who to appraoch and when. The problem is, you just know that we'll sack Souness, then they'll all meet up for wine and cheese a couple of days later where after an hour Fat Fred will finally go 'aw shit, I forgot to mention, we need a new manager, any ideas?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bombadil 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Good news even if it's the Sun - it may the start of something. I honestly think Fat Fred is narrow-minded and stupid enough to only look at British managers again, which is a shame and shows him up for what he is - utterly incompetent. Having said that, I'd take Big Sam - he's obviously a massive improvement on Souness and he seems to be a forward-thinking type of manager. I'd be happy if we got him - we can't be sure he'd want to come, but given his comments earlier in the season where he said that he'd taken Bolton as far as he could (or something along those lines), we can be optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17629 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. 73782[/snapback] If Shepherd appoints Peter Reid, how much time would you afford him? 73790[/snapback] The man who engineered Sunderland's demise? Job for life tbh. 73793[/snapback] You know what I'm getting at, being facetious changes nothing. For the record Gemmill, I would have given Souness time despite his appalling pedigree, but practically from day one the man showed what an idiot he is. You just can't accept that I was right about him and you were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. 73791[/snapback] the best 2 managers at Newcastle in recent times, Keegan and Robson. From the start, they brought an obvious improvement and came across as knowing what they were doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. 73791[/snapback] Didn't ManU come 2nd in the league in the first year Ferguson was in charge, a massive improvement? I don't think anyone is saying you have to win things straight away, but you should reasonably expect the club doesn't go into a nosedive, especially when you are given £50M to spend..... 73796[/snapback] From 11th to 2nd, back down to 11th in 88/89, 13th in 89/90, 6th in 90/91, 2nd in 91/92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I agree with Jose Mourinho who said "The great lie is that managres need time. A good manager should be able to change things straight away. That is what we do we manage what we have" 73779[/snapback] Going by that reckoning Ferguson would have been sacked by Man Utd early in his career, Morinho just likes to heap pressure on his rivals in my opinion. If he doesn't win the Champions League with Chelsea this season or next (which I'm sure is what Abramovich wants) then no doubt he'll be saying he wants time. Regarding Souness, I'm not saying give him more time as he was never the right man for the job, rather that he hasn't had time in my view. 73791[/snapback] Didn't ManU come 2nd in the league in the first year Ferguson was in charge, a massive improvement? I don't think anyone is saying you have to win things straight away, but you should reasonably expect the club doesn't go into a nosedive, especially when you are given £50M to spend..... 73796[/snapback] Following which they finished 11th and 13th (or similar) in consecutive seasons I believe and he didn't win anything in his first five years. Not sure what point you're trying to make tbh. And, as I've already pointed out, I'm not backing Souness/advocating giving him more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. 73782[/snapback] If Shepherd appoints Peter Reid, how much time would you afford him? 73790[/snapback] The man who engineered Sunderland's demise? Job for life tbh. 73793[/snapback] You know what I'm getting at, being facetious changes nothing. For the record Gemmill, I would have given Souness time despite his appalling pedigree, but practically from day one the man showed what an idiot he is. You just can't accept that I was right about him and you were wrong. 73805[/snapback] spot on, the charlton away game confirmed my fears, and everything went downhill from that point on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Gemmill man, just say you were wrong so Leazes and Renton can do a sex wee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Leazes, FWIW I agree with you on Allardyce and his open-mindedness with regards to training methods and treatment of injuries etc. I'm just unsure whether he'll ever be a "big-time" manager. I am convinced though that he would be an improvement on the current situation, but we should be looking for more than that really. 73767[/snapback] So what's your stance now Gemmill, out of interest? Are you finally going to admit you were wrong in your assertion that Souness should be given a minimum of 2 years to prove himself, regardless of results and performances on the field, and his PR off it? Can we finally expect an "I was wrong" Gemmill exclusive? 73771[/snapback] Nope. I think that's about how long a manager needs tbh. I've decided a bit early though that I've seen enough and that he clearly doesn't have what it takes. Just not as early as the day he arrived at the club, which was as much time as you were prepared to afford him. 73782[/snapback] If Shepherd appoints Peter Reid, how much time would you afford him? 73790[/snapback] The man who engineered Sunderland's demise? Job for life tbh. 73793[/snapback] You know what I'm getting at, being facetious changes nothing. For the record Gemmill, I would have given Souness time despite his appalling pedigree, but practically from day one the man showed what an idiot he is. You just can't accept that I was right about him and you were wrong. 73805[/snapback] Being facetious as in asking silly questions about Peter Reid you mean? I said that once the bloke is appointed he needs time to prove himself. You called for his head from the minute he was appointed, and before he'd even been in charge of a game. Sorry, but I think I'm sounding like the more level-headed one here tbh. I dread to think what will happen if we appoint another manager you don't like the look of. Ok, he's proven that he isn't good enough (using the time that I said he deserved - that's all I said btw, no matter how much you want to make out that I painted him as our messiah). That doesn't make you right and me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Gemmill man, just say you were wrong so Leazes and Renton can do a sex wee. 73819[/snapback] Uttering the words "Bellamy" and "chinaman's cock" has the same effect on both of them, and avoids me having to lie and say I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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