Howaythelads 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What really matters isn't that events have proven Gem to be wrong, it's that it looks like it's taken FS too long to see what a handful of people on here could see 12 months ago. Souness has been allowed to fcuk the club up and it'll take any manager some time now to put things right, imo. I don't care whether Gem ever understands this, I just hope FS does, hopefully today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oh whatever. Maybe it is points scoring, but you seem to be incapable of admitting you were wrong. Ever fancied a career as a lawyer or politician? 73852[/snapback] The irony tbh 73856[/snapback] The predictability tbh. If you want to point out where I have been wrong, and I agree, I will be only to happy to admit it. 73858[/snapback] It was a general comment, I can supply an example from yesterday if you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What really matters isn't that events have proven Gem to be wrong, it's that it looks like it's taken FS too long to see what a handful of people on here could see 12 months ago. Souness has been allowed to fcuk the club up and it'll take any manager some time now to put things right, imo. I don't care whether Gem ever understands this, I just hope FS does, hopefully today. 73861[/snapback] I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 A manager needs time to achieve success. However the effect that manager has on a team is almost immediately apparent. The change in system, tactics, coaching can be seen almost immediately. For those that chose to look Souness was failing from the start and the outcome was inevitable. I should add though that I never thought it was realistic that he would be sacked before the summer. 73855[/snapback] He should have been sacked after his obvious wankfest when he took off Bellamy against Charlton. At that moment, he proved beyond doubt that he put himself ahead of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 As I've said before of the shortlist last time I thought Souness was the best choice. With the same shortlist I'm still not ecstatic about the choices. A good alternative would make me happy but I will give whoever a chance. 73851[/snapback] I do to a certain point understand why people in the beginning thought Souness was the right choice. I disagreed strongly as to me the shortcomings were to obvious (and I was right FACT tbh ). No seriously, I have no problem with being accused not giving the manager a chance. In my eyes Souness had every game the chance to prove me wrong. I was overly sceptical, but even I got a bit fooled by his first radio interview that sounded promising. Unfortunately I never saw only in the slightest that I was going to eat the humble pie Hansen (IIRC) said all Souness-bashing people will have to eat.. I'd gladly done it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17743 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oh whatever. Maybe it is points scoring, but you seem to be incapable of admitting you were wrong. Ever fancied a career as a lawyer or politician? 73852[/snapback] The irony tbh 73856[/snapback] The predictability tbh. If you want to point out where I have been wrong, and I agree, I will be only to happy to admit it. 73858[/snapback] It was a general comment, I can supply an example from yesterday if you like. 73862[/snapback] Feel free, but don't bother if it is opinion..... Btw, I may be as bad as Gemmill in this regard, but you are the true king of never admitting you are wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I think people tend to believe that if they convinced other forum members to agree with them about sacking Souness immediatley/quickly that it would have actually made a difference to the opinion of the Board/Freddie. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. The Board couldn't give a f**k about what we say on here. Someone on here saying Souness deserved time doesn't actually account for anything in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What really matters isn't that events have proven Gem to be wrong, it's that it looks like it's taken FS too long to see what a handful of people on here could see 12 months ago. Souness has been allowed to fcuk the club up and it'll take any manager some time now to put things right, imo. I don't care whether Gem ever understands this, I just hope FS does, hopefully today. 73861[/snapback] I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. 73865[/snapback] Aye, but I thought you wanted to 'give him time'. Sorry if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3976 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I think people tend to believe that if they convinced other forum members to agree with them about sacking Souness immediatley/quickly that it would have actually made a difference to the opinion of the Board/Freddie. Nothing could be further from the truth imo. The Board couldn't give a f**k about what we say on here. Someone on here saying Souness deserved time doesn't actually account for anything in the real world. 73869[/snapback] True but you like to think so - my worry is that the "instant expectation" will do for the next one as well and will actually put anyone decent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 Wweeeelllllll........he DID come in and restored morale, climbing from bottom to halfway in the league first season ... Which is precisely the position we would have been in if fuckwit hadn't got lucky with his 16m get out of jail card....... You are right we treaded water for that 18 months, much the same as we did under Arthur Cox until he bought Keegan. In both these cases you could see they knew what they were doing though, on a tight budget ..... Souness hasn't had that, he instantly fell out with players [as predicted], bombed down the league and has had lots of dosh, completely different 73831[/snapback] I agree with the gist of your reply (Especially on morale) but he did wheel and deal a bit getting rid of Goma for example who I thought was a good player. Playing Devil's advocate he made no attempt to get on with/improve the situation of Marcelino - not a popular view I know but when you consider how he fell out with Nobby and Elliot to an extent later on I'd say to try and make out that Bobby was the perfect opposite to Souness is just a tad biased. On a similar note see Keegan with Venison/Clark/Cole. 73840[/snapback] Bobby Robson took over a club that needed a re-build and restoration of morale, Souness took over a team that didn't need that, the situation is totally different. He sold players he shouldn't have sold, and has failed to man manage players, and has created his own problems. These are the same things which have followed him through his whole managerial career. Where was there any basis for thinking he was going to change just because he became manager of Newcastle ? You can't compare Bobby Robsons track record and standing in the game to Souness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oh whatever. Maybe it is points scoring, but you seem to be incapable of admitting you were wrong. Ever fancied a career as a lawyer or politician? 73852[/snapback] The irony tbh 73856[/snapback] The predictability tbh. If you want to point out where I have been wrong, and I agree, I will be only to happy to admit it. 73858[/snapback] It was a general comment, I can supply an example from yesterday if you like. 73862[/snapback] Feel free, but don't bother if it is opinion..... Btw, I may be as bad as Gemmill in this regard, but you are the true king of never admitting you are wrong! 73868[/snapback] That's bollocks mate, I'm willing to admit when I was wrong. The bit yesterday I'm referring to is saying you'd prefer it if we didn't need a player of Parker's TYPE before changing your mind by claiming he wasn't good enough to be a player in a top side (can't be both I'm afraid ). Incidentally, feel free to point out where I've been wrong without admitting it, but don't bother if it's opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. 73865[/snapback] Sorry, I hated him at Blackburn, I believe that makes me Soopa. Of course Leazes hated him at Liverpool, which makes him GREAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 (edited) I don't think anyone thought Souness was the right choice, apart from the usual Muppet Handful who stand outside SJP the minute Shearer's farts smell different. Only an idiot would have swallowed the crap they were spouting on Sky about him cleaning up her squad and getting rid of the piss takers. EDIT: The point was though, once he was here we were stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so we had to back him. Edited January 4, 2006 by sweetleftpeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Operator 10 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Go on you Fat Bastard Shepherd, do something positive and sack the useless self centred jock cunt! Granted he's managed to bring in a few quality palyers but we've become a laughing stock. Defensively were only better than the mackems. It was a dark day on Tyneside when Souness came here, but you can put it all right Fat Fred and let the sun shine again on the toon by getting rid. Just don't even fucking think of bringing Steve "the nose" Bruce here or you'll be hammering the final nail into your own coffin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17743 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. 73865[/snapback] Sorry, I hated him at Blackburn, I believe that makes me Soopa. Of course Leazes hated him at Liverpool, which makes him GREAT. 73880[/snapback] I hated him as a player at Boro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. 73865[/snapback] Sorry, I hated him at Blackburn, I believe that makes me Soopa. Of course Leazes hated him at Liverpool, which makes him GREAT. 73880[/snapback] why should I hate him at Liverpool....I quite enjoyed the subject of my sig though, and never dreamed we'd ever have him here ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17743 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I don't think anyone thought Souness was the right choice, apart from the usual Muppet Handful who stand outside SJP the minute Shearer's farts smell different. Only an idiot would have swallowed the crap they were spouting on Sky about him cleaning up her squad and getting rid of the piss takers. EDIT: The point was though, once he was here we were stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so we had to back him. 73881[/snapback] Not nice to call Gemmill an idiot like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 In my past life I grew up in the next town to Souness, and I fucking hated him then. SOOPAFANTASTIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17743 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oh whatever. Maybe it is points scoring, but you seem to be incapable of admitting you were wrong. Ever fancied a career as a lawyer or politician? 73852[/snapback] The irony tbh 73856[/snapback] The predictability tbh. If you want to point out where I have been wrong, and I agree, I will be only to happy to admit it. 73858[/snapback] It was a general comment, I can supply an example from yesterday if you like. 73862[/snapback] Feel free, but don't bother if it is opinion..... Btw, I may be as bad as Gemmill in this regard, but you are the true king of never admitting you are wrong! 73868[/snapback] That's bollocks mate, I'm willing to admit when I was wrong. The bit yesterday I'm referring to is saying you'd prefer it if we didn't need a player of Parker's TYPE before changing your mind by claiming he wasn't good enough to be a player in a top side (can't be both I'm afraid ). Incidentally, feel free to point out where I've been wrong without admitting it, but don't bother if it's opinion 73879[/snapback] OK, I was wrong about that, in a pedantic kind of way. Not quite on the same magnitude of Gemmill's wrongness about Souness however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocChip 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Wweeeelllllll........he DID come in and restored morale, climbing from bottom to halfway in the league first season ... Which is precisely the position we would have been in if fuckwit hadn't got lucky with his 16m get out of jail card....... You are right we treaded water for that 18 months, much the same as we did under Arthur Cox until he bought Keegan. In both these cases you could see they knew what they were doing though, on a tight budget ..... Souness hasn't had that, he instantly fell out with players [as predicted], bombed down the league and has had lots of dosh, completely different 73831[/snapback] I agree with the gist of your reply (Especially on morale) but he did wheel and deal a bit getting rid of Goma for example who I thought was a good player. Playing Devil's advocate he made no attempt to get on with/improve the situation of Marcelino - not a popular view I know but when you consider how he fell out with Nobby and Elliot to an extent later on I'd say to try and make out that Bobby was the perfect opposite to Souness is just a tad biased. On a similar note see Keegan with Venison/Clark/Cole. 73840[/snapback] Bobby Robson took over a club that needed a re-build and restoration of morale, Souness took over a team that didn't need that, the situation is totally different. He sold players he shouldn't have sold, and has failed to man manage players, and has created his own problems. These are the same things which have followed him through his whole managerial career. Where was there any basis for thinking he was going to change just because he became manager of Newcastle ? You can't compare Bobby Robsons track record and standing in the game to Souness. 73876[/snapback] I think i might disagree with that. Bobby's team were underperforming, he played certain players regardless of form and certain other players were clearly taking the p*ss regarding their importance to the team. I think we needed someone to nudge us back in the right direction (SBR got us there in the 1st place) and to freshen up the squad. Of course, Souness hasn't managed to do that, i do think however that he has sorted out club discipline though i am more than aware to what cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34385 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 What really matters isn't that events have proven Gem to be wrong, it's that it looks like it's taken FS too long to see what a handful of people on here could see 12 months ago. Souness has been allowed to fcuk the club up and it'll take any manager some time now to put things right, imo. I don't care whether Gem ever understands this, I just hope FS does, hopefully today. 73861[/snapback] For the umpteenth time: I said that Souness needed time to prove himself one way or the other. He's used that time to prove that he isn't good enough. Which doesn't make me wrong because he still needed that time to prove his inadequacy in his role as manager of Newcastle United (not Liverpool, Blackburn, or any other club he may have been at in the past). It was simply the true, 100% correct statement that "A new manager needs time to prove himself" that makes me RIGHT and not WRONG. FACTARAMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snakehips 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 It will be interesting (for once) to see what Anal Oliver comes out with tonight in the Chron. If he goes with this story then it would appear that there is some substance in it. However, surely Portly Freddie must have to make some sort of comment on the situation? I know it will be along the lines of 'blah blah, Souness is still the manager etc etc' but it is (as is often the case with FS) what can be read between the lines that will be the interesting bit. Looking at all the posts, it seems evident that Souness has lost the backing of those that supported him and those that were prepared to give him more time. I would guess that 90-odd% want to see the back of him. Those that cite injuries as holding his team back should please explain the first 45 mins at Spurs which was quite a strong side yet created virtually nothing, I'm led to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I don't think anyone thought Souness was the right choice, apart from the usual Muppet Handful who stand outside SJP the minute Shearer's farts smell different. Only an idiot would have swallowed the crap they were spouting on Sky about him cleaning up her squad and getting rid of the piss takers. EDIT: The point was though, once he was here we were stuck with him for the foreseeable future, so we had to back him. 73881[/snapback] Not nice to call Gemmill an idiot like. 73885[/snapback] Behave, there were no fat ginga kids outside that day. Plus, Gemmill never said that, he just said (like me) that once he was here he should be given time. Unless you went out and assasinated him he was always going to be manager at the start of the 05/06 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I thought Souness was shit when he joined, which was more than 12 months ago, which means I win. 73865[/snapback] Sorry, I hated him at Blackburn, I believe that makes me Soopa. Of course Leazes hated him at Liverpool, which makes him GREAT. 73880[/snapback] I hated him as a player at Boro. 73883[/snapback] I hated him as a player at Spurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34385 Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Oh whatever. Maybe it is points scoring, but you seem to be incapable of admitting you were wrong. Ever fancied a career as a lawyer or politician? 73852[/snapback] The irony tbh 73856[/snapback] The predictability tbh. If you want to point out where I have been wrong, and I agree, I will be only to happy to admit it. 73858[/snapback] It was a general comment, I can supply an example from yesterday if you like. 73862[/snapback] Feel free, but don't bother if it is opinion..... Btw, I may be as bad as Gemmill in this regard, but you are the true king of never admitting you are wrong! 73868[/snapback] That's bollocks mate, I'm willing to admit when I was wrong. The bit yesterday I'm referring to is saying you'd prefer it if we didn't need a player of Parker's TYPE before changing your mind by claiming he wasn't good enough to be a player in a top side (can't be both I'm afraid ). Incidentally, feel free to point out where I've been wrong without admitting it, but don't bother if it's opinion 73879[/snapback] OK, I was wrong about that, in a pedantic kind of way. Not quite on the same magnitude of Gemmill's wrongness about Souness however. 73888[/snapback] This is Renton still DEFINITELY NOT trying to point-score by the way. Just in case anyone missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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